Returning car to dealer for full refund
Returning car to dealer for full refund
Author
Discussion

sammyb349

Original Poster:

254 posts

186 months

Saturday 20th September
quotequote all
TL:DR. I bought a RR Autobiography in July. It’s now been back to the garage (authorised dealer) 3 times for various issues. I’ve asked for my money back but they say they need to ‘find the fault’ before they will talk refund. Why?

I bought the car which came with their multi point inspection, fresh MOT and Warranty but on the drive home the car pulled to left both under load and cruising.

Additionally the infotainment kept cutting out and the CarPlay didn’t work (and the front passenger heated seat didn’t work and the rear arm rest was broken….

Car went back, they found the fault was tracking was severely out, trim fixed and infotainment modules replaced. Front seat forgotten about and car play apparently now worked.

Picked car up on a saturday when no real staff around (because I work during the week and live an hour away from the dealer). Lo and behold the pull to the left is still there and the infotainment (whilst some of it now worked the issues of cut out and CarPlay still there).

Car went back, tracking out again and the wiring harness now diagnosed as the fault which will be replaced.

At this point having only driven the car 200 miles (half of which is back and forth to the dealer), I asked for my money back. They have not said no, but have said they need to find the cause of these faults and fix them before they can talk resolution. What legal ground have I got - I don’t want the car it’s a lemon and I am certain has more problems than I know about. My heart has moved on too (despite how comfortable it was).

Simpo Two

89,679 posts

282 months

Saturday 20th September
quotequote all
sammyb349 said:
I ve asked for my money back but they say they need to find the fault before they will talk refund. Why?
A dealer does have the right to repair, so I guess they hope to find the faults and fix them, rather than refund. However they should have only so much time and so many attempts before you have to call time. So far they've had two goes and it's not fixed.

mcpoot

998 posts

124 months

Sunday 21st September
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Rather than take ill-informed advice on here do yourself a favour and Google CRA 2015. There are numerous sites that will explain your consumer rights.

Dog Biscuit

1,040 posts

14 months

Sunday 21st September
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You are in a fairly strong legal position, but how strong depends on timing and how you approach it. In the UK your rights come mainly from the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Here is how it applies to your situation.

First, within the first 30 days of purchase you have what is called the short-term right to reject. If the car is not of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or as described, you can reject it and demand a refund. You do not need to give the dealer multiple attempts to fix within this period. The rejection must be clear and unequivocal.

Second, after the first 30 days but within the first six months, the law gives the dealer one opportunity to repair or replace the car. If that repair does not fix the problem, or if another significant fault occurs, you then have the right to reject the car for a refund or request a price reduction. During these first six months the burden of proof is on the dealer, not on you. The law assumes the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the dealer can prove otherwise.

Third, the reason the dealer is telling you they “need to find the fault before talking refund” is because they are trying to use their one opportunity to repair. The law entitles them to that, but they cannot insist on indefinite attempts or ongoing repairs.

Fourth, if you validly reject within six months you are entitled to a refund. The dealer can make a reasonable deduction for usage, but since you have only done about 200 miles, most of which were trips to and from the dealer, that deduction should be negligible.

Fifth, what you should do next is to put your rejection in writing by email and recorded letter. State clearly that you are exercising your right to reject the vehicle under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 because it is not of satisfactory quality and has not been repaired successfully despite attempts. Require a full refund and give them a deadline, for example 14 days, to respond. Keep all records of visits, repair notes, and faults. If they refuse, your escalation options are to go through Alternative Dispute Resolution such as the Motor Ombudsman (if the dealer is accredited), to make a Section 75 claim if you paid in part or full by credit card, to complain to the finance company if you used finance, or to take the matter to court.

In short, you do not have to keep letting them “find” and “try to fix” indefinitely. The law gives them one proper attempt, and if that fails you can reject. Given the number of faults such as the safety related pulling to the left, infotainment failures, forgotten repairs and broken trim, you have strong grounds to argue the car is not of satisfactory quality and should be refunded.

Use this letter to officiate the request ....




Dear [Dealer’s Name],

I am writing to formally reject the Range Rover Autobiography purchased from you in July under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The vehicle is not of satisfactory quality and has developed multiple faults from the outset, including pulling to the left, infotainment system failures, CarPlay issues, non-functioning heated seat, and broken trim. Despite returning the vehicle on several occasions, the problems have not been resolved and new faults continue to appear.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, as the faults arose within the first six months of purchase and repairs have not been successfully carried out, I am entitled to exercise my final right to reject the vehicle. I therefore require a full refund. Given I have only driven approximately 200 miles, half of which were to return the vehicle to you, any deduction for usage would be unreasonable.

Please confirm the arrangements for the refund and return of the vehicle within 14 days of this letter. If I do not receive a satisfactory response, I will escalate the matter through the finance company (if applicable), the Motor Ombudsman, or the courts if necessary.

Yours sincerely,

loskie

6,407 posts

137 months

Sunday 21st September
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is the car on finance and/or did you pay any of it by credit card? If so speak to those companies too.

sammyb349

Original Poster:

254 posts

186 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
Thank you all most helpful, even the curt reply to look at the CRA 2015.

I’ll address this on Monday and revert back with where I have got to.


Simpo Two

89,679 posts

282 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
mcpoot said:
Rather than take ill-informed advice on here do yourself a favour and Google CRA 2015. There are numerous sites that will explain your consumer rights.
If you meant me, I got a full refund on a Jaguar which had engine problems and they came and collected it.

mcpoot

998 posts

124 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
mcpoot said:
Rather than take ill-informed advice on here do yourself a favour and Google CRA 2015. There are numerous sites that will explain your consumer rights.
If you meant me, I got a full refund on a Jaguar which had engine problems and they came and collected it.
I didn't mean you. I was referring to the usual bad advice that gets posted on these types of threads.

itcaptainslow

4,211 posts

153 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
Dog Biscuit said:
You are in a fairly strong legal position, but how strong depends on timing and how you approach it. In the UK your rights come mainly from the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Here is how it applies to your situation.

First, within the first 30 days of purchase you have what is called the short-term right to reject. If the car is not of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose or as described, you can reject it and demand a refund. You do not need to give the dealer multiple attempts to fix within this period. The rejection must be clear and unequivocal.

Second, after the first 30 days but within the first six months, the law gives the dealer one opportunity to repair or replace the car. If that repair does not fix the problem, or if another significant fault occurs, you then have the right to reject the car for a refund or request a price reduction. During these first six months the burden of proof is on the dealer, not on you. The law assumes the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the dealer can prove otherwise.

Third, the reason the dealer is telling you they need to find the fault before talking refund is because they are trying to use their one opportunity to repair. The law entitles them to that, but they cannot insist on indefinite attempts or ongoing repairs.

Fourth, if you validly reject within six months you are entitled to a refund. The dealer can make a reasonable deduction for usage, but since you have only done about 200 miles, most of which were trips to and from the dealer, that deduction should be negligible.

Fifth, what you should do next is to put your rejection in writing by email and recorded letter. State clearly that you are exercising your right to reject the vehicle under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 because it is not of satisfactory quality and has not been repaired successfully despite attempts. Require a full refund and give them a deadline, for example 14 days, to respond. Keep all records of visits, repair notes, and faults. If they refuse, your escalation options are to go through Alternative Dispute Resolution such as the Motor Ombudsman (if the dealer is accredited), to make a Section 75 claim if you paid in part or full by credit card, to complain to the finance company if you used finance, or to take the matter to court.

In short, you do not have to keep letting them find and try to fix indefinitely. The law gives them one proper attempt, and if that fails you can reject. Given the number of faults such as the safety related pulling to the left, infotainment failures, forgotten repairs and broken trim, you have strong grounds to argue the car is not of satisfactory quality and should be refunded.

Use this letter to officiate the request ....




Dear [Dealer s Name],

I am writing to formally reject the Range Rover Autobiography purchased from you in July under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

The vehicle is not of satisfactory quality and has developed multiple faults from the outset, including pulling to the left, infotainment system failures, CarPlay issues, non-functioning heated seat, and broken trim. Despite returning the vehicle on several occasions, the problems have not been resolved and new faults continue to appear.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, as the faults arose within the first six months of purchase and repairs have not been successfully carried out, I am entitled to exercise my final right to reject the vehicle. I therefore require a full refund. Given I have only driven approximately 200 miles, half of which were to return the vehicle to you, any deduction for usage would be unreasonable.

Please confirm the arrangements for the refund and return of the vehicle within 14 days of this letter. If I do not receive a satisfactory response, I will escalate the matter through the finance company (if applicable), the Motor Ombudsman, or the courts if necessary.

Yours sincerely,
This is excellent advice. As raised here and by another poster, the situation is covered well by the CRA, including how many attempts the dealer has at a fix.

BertBert

20,502 posts

228 months

Sunday 21st September
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Has the dealer actually had their one chance to fix it from the info in the OP?

carl_w

9,970 posts

275 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
BertBert said:
Has the dealer actually had their one chance to fix it from the info in the OP?
It's been back three times so they've had three chances to fix it

OutInTheShed

12,156 posts

43 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
How old is the car?

The problem is, car play is not fundamental to a car, particularly a used car.



A used car has to be fit for the purpose of driving around in a used car. It doesn't necessarily have to have compatibility with the latest apple or android toys.

It's like buying a time-served tablet. Don't do it if the full functionality of a new toy is essential to you.
I have an old tablet, I've had it maybe 4 years, if I wanted full functionality, I'd buy a new one.

A lot of this stuff never really worked perfectly when some cars were new.

If there are any issues fundamental to actual driving or safety, I would focus on those.
If the thing doesn't go or isn't roadworthy, it's a lot closer to being an open and shut case.
Although that doesn't seem exactly dependable on new RR products.

Antony Moxey

9,911 posts

236 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
How old is the car?

The problem is, car play is not fundamental to a car, particularly a used car.



A used car has to be fit for the purpose of driving around in a used car. It doesn't necessarily have to have compatibility with the latest apple or android toys.

It's like buying a time-served tablet. Don't do it if the full functionality of a new toy is essential to you.
I have an old tablet, I've had it maybe 4 years, if I wanted full functionality, I'd buy a new one.

A lot of this stuff never really worked perfectly when some cars were new.

If there are any issues fundamental to actual driving or safety, I would focus on those.
If the thing doesn't go or isn't roadworthy, it's a lot closer to being an open and shut case.
Although that doesn't seem exactly dependable on new RR products.
The OPs not hanging his hat on Car Play though, it’s just part of a long list of faults. I’d imagine if it were just that he’d be thinking the same as you.

Antony Moxey

9,911 posts

236 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
BertBert said:
Has the dealer actually had their one chance to fix it from the info in the OP?
Did you not bother reading the OP? It’s the second sentence he wrote. rolleyes

paul_c123

1,189 posts

10 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
The fault needs to exist and be acknowledged by the dealer. That they've looked at it 3 times, suggests that attempt 2 they have already done this. So it can now progress to a refund.
Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
Consumer Rights Act 2015

First 30 days - vehicle can be rejected for a fault without having to give the supplying dealer a chance to fix it first

31 days to 6 months - dealer must prove the fault was not there at time of sale and if they can't, the dealer has one chance to fix the fault, providing it won't cause significant inconvenience to the consumer. Should the opportunity be used and the fault not fixed, the vehicle can be rejected for a refund but the dealer can make a bit of a deduction for use of the vehicle

6 months to 6 years - consumer must prove the fault was present at time of sale then give dealer a chance to repair

Should you wish to reject, write to them (inc any finance company) outlining why and stop using the vehicle.

OutInTheShed

12,156 posts

43 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
Antony Moxey said:
The OPs not hanging his hat on Car Play though, it s just part of a long list of faults. I d imagine if it were just that he d be thinking the same as you.
Then he should set it aside, because it's a huge distraction from any real issues.

Antony Moxey

9,911 posts

236 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
Antony Moxey said:
The OPs not hanging his hat on Car Play though, it s just part of a long list of faults. I d imagine if it were just that he d be thinking the same as you.
Then he should set it aside, because it's a huge distraction from any real issues.
It’s not, it’s an accumulation of issues and adds to his case that the car’s not fit for purpose.

Robberto

227 posts

99 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
Antony Moxey said:
OutInTheShed said:
Antony Moxey said:
The OPs not hanging his hat on Car Play though, it s just part of a long list of faults. I d imagine if it were just that he d be thinking the same as you.
Then he should set it aside, because it's a huge distraction from any real issues.
It s not, it s an accumulation of issues and adds to his case that the car s not fit for purpose.
If the car was advertised as having Carplay and it’s not working then it’s not as described, another valid reason for rejecting a car according to the CRA. Granted, we don’t have the selling advert but that doesn’t mean it’s a distraction to the other issues.

OutInTheShed

12,156 posts

43 months

Sunday 21st September
quotequote all
Antony Moxey said:
It s not, it s an accumulation of issues and adds to his case that the car s not fit for purpose.
But if the car pulls to the left despite them fiddling with the tracking, that suggests the car is bent and anything else is a trivial detail.

I would be putting that in bold and not allowing them to waste time mucking about with ancillary stuff.
I would be telling them if they return the car to me, its next destination will be an alignment specialist.

Keep it that simple, then add a list of everything else.