Tyres - Is it worth an All season tyre
Discussion
Hey all,
I’m in need if replacing my conti sport 7s as they were sat for a while and got flat spots and I’ve noticed the fronts falling off a little now it’s cooler.
I’ve always ran summer tyres all year round but I am now wondering if it’s better to switch to a performance all season like the new Michelin cross climate 3 sport
Or
Move to a new set of summers - ps4s for example? Are there are any summer tires that are great in wet and handle cold? Or is it time to switch? Joe much difference will I notice on an all season?
The car is awd with 400hp.
I’ve read plenty of articles but none that cover my specifics so thought I’d ask again. Cheers all
I’m in need if replacing my conti sport 7s as they were sat for a while and got flat spots and I’ve noticed the fronts falling off a little now it’s cooler.
I’ve always ran summer tyres all year round but I am now wondering if it’s better to switch to a performance all season like the new Michelin cross climate 3 sport
Or
Move to a new set of summers - ps4s for example? Are there are any summer tires that are great in wet and handle cold? Or is it time to switch? Joe much difference will I notice on an all season?
The car is awd with 400hp.
I’ve read plenty of articles but none that cover my specifics so thought I’d ask again. Cheers all
Not something with 400bhp, I run my van on a set of Crossclimate 2's all year even in the roasting heat of the summer they were perfectly fine...but on something with big horse power I'd stick to a high performance summer tyre just to be safe.
If you fancy doing and experiment though I am sure we'd all be interested to see how long they would last.
If you fancy doing and experiment though I am sure we'd all be interested to see how long they would last.
I have run 'summer tyres' all year round on my 335d X drive. I live in coastal North West Wales, where we rarely see snow at sea level, and rarely ice. Temperatures go to about 2 degC in winter nights, but only for a short period, and can reach 30 these last few years for a week or so. I have Goodyear EfficientGrip for the balance of wet performance and comfort. With our rain here, wet performance is critical. I have never experienced a need for all-seasons, in 11 years here. Having said that, I am retired so I have no need for early starts. If an all season matched the wet braking and handling, I would buy some.
P.S. CC sport tyres start with just 6mm tread depth, something to take into account.
P.S. CC sport tyres start with just 6mm tread depth, something to take into account.
As you may well have suspected, there's a long running thread here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I’ve run CCs on my dailies. Had them on an E320CDI (remapped to 290bhp), a standard E350CDI, a 309bhp 335D. I found the longevity to be fine, as tends to be the case with Michelin, and the summer grip perfectly acceptable. I would have fewer qualms about fitting them to a high performance car than to something with fine handling. The grip is fine, no doubt worse than a UHP summer, but ok, the big loss is subjective sharpness.
They are a manufacturer option tyre on my current 416bhp Polestar. I will consider them when the time comes, but would like to know how they compare to the standard Michelin Primacy tyres for rolling resistance and noise.
They are a manufacturer option tyre on my current 416bhp Polestar. I will consider them when the time comes, but would like to know how they compare to the standard Michelin Primacy tyres for rolling resistance and noise.
I mean it kind of depends on your usage.
Typically summers are still better in the mild wet winters we get. If its damp and mid to high single digits then summers all the way. It's just when it gets properly frosty or of course it snows are winters better.... and realistically it barely snows south of the midlands. If you're not likely to _need_ to be out and about if there is a risk of snow then better to shove a set of snow socks in the boot for the once in a blue moon if it does.
Equally it depends on the tyre tread pattern, both of ours have currently got Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric and they're _dire_ in a hint of snow due to the tread pattern. My wifes AWD is better than my FWD in that aspect but hers still isn't good.
In comparison, many moons back on her previous car (Mazda 6 MPS) my wife had Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta's on it and despite being a "Max Performance Summer tyre" they worked really well in the snow as they were very soft and had very wide diagonal stripes that "cut" into the snow. After that she went to the Bridgestone CrossClimate and while it was _noticeably_ compromised in the summer vs the UHP summer tyres they were utterly awesome in the snow (I _may_ have tested their ability in a snowy car park).
The new CrossClimate 3 Sport certainly look interesting, currently I actually have a set of spare wheels with winters on (purely because we went skiing in the alps, drove there and legally needed them) so I'm bothering to swap them to make the most of them but when they wear out I may swap them to the CrossClimate 3 sports instead.... but I'd still not be using them all year round.
Typically summers are still better in the mild wet winters we get. If its damp and mid to high single digits then summers all the way. It's just when it gets properly frosty or of course it snows are winters better.... and realistically it barely snows south of the midlands. If you're not likely to _need_ to be out and about if there is a risk of snow then better to shove a set of snow socks in the boot for the once in a blue moon if it does.
Equally it depends on the tyre tread pattern, both of ours have currently got Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric and they're _dire_ in a hint of snow due to the tread pattern. My wifes AWD is better than my FWD in that aspect but hers still isn't good.
In comparison, many moons back on her previous car (Mazda 6 MPS) my wife had Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta's on it and despite being a "Max Performance Summer tyre" they worked really well in the snow as they were very soft and had very wide diagonal stripes that "cut" into the snow. After that she went to the Bridgestone CrossClimate and while it was _noticeably_ compromised in the summer vs the UHP summer tyres they were utterly awesome in the snow (I _may_ have tested their ability in a snowy car park).
The new CrossClimate 3 Sport certainly look interesting, currently I actually have a set of spare wheels with winters on (purely because we went skiing in the alps, drove there and legally needed them) so I'm bothering to swap them to make the most of them but when they wear out I may swap them to the CrossClimate 3 sports instead.... but I'd still not be using them all year round.
leef44 said:
Why bother having something with that much power and performance but not have summer performance tyres to provide the grip?
Otherwise just get a low powered vehicle and go all season tyres.
Maybe because summer performance tyres can be a total liability in harsh winter conditions. Two sets of wheels is the best solution on summer and winter tyres. But all-seasons are not a bad compromise for the UK. I ran cross-climates on a 500 hp Tesla Model X for a year and they were fine. Certainly much better than summer tyres in marginal conditions where grip levels were more critical anyway. Otherwise just get a low powered vehicle and go all season tyres.
uktrailmonster said:
leef44 said:
Why bother having something with that much power and performance but not have summer performance tyres to provide the grip?
Otherwise just get a low powered vehicle and go all season tyres.
Maybe because summer performance tyres can be a total liability in harsh winter conditions. Two sets of wheels is the best solution on summer and winter tyres. But all-seasons are not a bad compromise for the UK. I ran cross-climates on a 500 hp Tesla Model X for a year and they were fine. Certainly much better than summer tyres in marginal conditions where grip levels were more critical anyway. Otherwise just get a low powered vehicle and go all season tyres.
Even though I ordinarily run summer tires all year. I know that some are a liability in poor or cold conditions. You just modify your driving to the conditions ofcourse.
But at the same time I still like to take my car out in winter through wales for example, where often it’s low single digits and very wet.
The introduction of the CC3 sport is what intrigued me. A compound that reacts to condition to suit. Sounds intriguing.
But I have to say despite always running a summer tyre you can (well I can ) feel them drop off under 10degrees. My CSC7 certainly doesn’t like it at say 7/8 degrees and wet - they get slidey below (current) 4mm say of tread. Above that fine but then the dynamics of the car also come into effect as it’s heavy up front. I’m aware.
Feel the CC3 sport may well be a good bet either that or go for mp4s again - they’ve always been ok this time of year.
Interesting to read other people’s experience though. Thanks
I understand your concern, I found the CS7 could be absolutely evil in very cold and frosty conditions. MPS4S and Pirelli PZ4 were both a little more forgiving.
All season tyres make a good winter fit in most of the UK on any car, and on a boring car I fit them for year round use but on something with 400bhp I think you'd notice a material difference in warm/dry performance between the CS7 and the CC3. Depends how hard you drive really, if it's just the odd squirt from the lights and so on then it'll be fine but if you go hooning you'll find them giving up and squealing much sooner on all seasons.
I will say that the CC2 at least was about as good as any summer touring tyre I've ever used though.
Hate to say it but two sets of wheels is the only really sensible solution, with all seasons for the autumn and winter months.
All season tyres make a good winter fit in most of the UK on any car, and on a boring car I fit them for year round use but on something with 400bhp I think you'd notice a material difference in warm/dry performance between the CS7 and the CC3. Depends how hard you drive really, if it's just the odd squirt from the lights and so on then it'll be fine but if you go hooning you'll find them giving up and squealing much sooner on all seasons.
I will say that the CC2 at least was about as good as any summer touring tyre I've ever used though.
Hate to say it but two sets of wheels is the only really sensible solution, with all seasons for the autumn and winter months.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Wednesday 24th September 11:25
stevekoz said:
Yes I completely echo that point.
Even though I ordinarily run summer tires all year. I know that some are a liability in poor or cold conditions. You just modify your driving to the conditions ofcourse.
But at the same time I still like to take my car out in winter through wales for example, where often it s low single digits and very wet.
The introduction of the CC3 sport is what intrigued me. A compound that reacts to condition to suit. Sounds intriguing.
But I have to say despite always running a summer tyre you can (well I can ) feel them drop off under 10degrees. My CSC7 certainly doesn t like it at say 7/8 degrees and wet - they get slidey below (current) 4mm say of tread. Above that fine but then the dynamics of the car also come into effect as it s heavy up front. I m aware.
Feel the CC3 sport may well be a good bet either that or go for mp4s again - they ve always been ok this time of year.
Interesting to read other people s experience though. Thanks
Let’s put it this way. I’ve had far more scary winter moments on summer tyres than scary summer moments on all-season tyres. But I have always run both summer and winter tyres on dedicated performance sportscars like my 911. Even though I ordinarily run summer tires all year. I know that some are a liability in poor or cold conditions. You just modify your driving to the conditions ofcourse.
But at the same time I still like to take my car out in winter through wales for example, where often it s low single digits and very wet.
The introduction of the CC3 sport is what intrigued me. A compound that reacts to condition to suit. Sounds intriguing.
But I have to say despite always running a summer tyre you can (well I can ) feel them drop off under 10degrees. My CSC7 certainly doesn t like it at say 7/8 degrees and wet - they get slidey below (current) 4mm say of tread. Above that fine but then the dynamics of the car also come into effect as it s heavy up front. I m aware.
Feel the CC3 sport may well be a good bet either that or go for mp4s again - they ve always been ok this time of year.
Interesting to read other people s experience though. Thanks
uktrailmonster said:
Let s put it this way. I ve had far more scary winter moments on summer tyres than scary summer moments on all-season tyres. But I have always run both summer and winter tyres on dedicated performance sportscars like my 911.
Very eloquently put! Slightly disappointing ultimate summer performance from an all season is less likely to lead to brown trousers than rock hard summer tyres on freezing damp roads 
otolith said:
GeniusOfLove said:
Very eloquently put! Slightly disappointing ultimate summer performance from an all season is less likely to lead to brown trousers than rock hard summer tyres on freezing damp roads
Exactly.Of course it goes both ways, when its really cold the performance is reversed and that doesn't take into account everyone else being on the cheapest ditchfinders they can afford and going into the back of you anyway!
Fastdruid said:
otolith said:
GeniusOfLove said:
Very eloquently put! Slightly disappointing ultimate summer performance from an all season is less likely to lead to brown trousers than rock hard summer tyres on freezing damp roads
Exactly.Of course it goes both ways, when its really cold the performance is reversed and that doesn't take into account everyone else being on the cheapest ditchfinders they can afford and going into the back of you anyway!
I have had someone slide into the back of me when on winter tyres in the snow at a T-junction. But on summer tyres I would have been the one doing the sliding into the junction, which is worse. In the winter months around here I see far more cars in the ditch than I see during the summer months, so that’s not a good argument for running summer tyres all year round. In reality hardly anyone runs winter tyres or all-season tyres in the UK, but they should consider it really.
It's going to depend where one lives and how one uses their car ultimately.
However, one can also consider some basic logic such as whether it is smarter to compromise ultimate performance during the dry and warm months and favour better performance at general speeds all time of year when conditions aren't ideal.
I've always run every day cars on all seasons. I'm not someone who frets too much about lap times on chore runs or needing to give a little more stopping time on a lovely summer's day but I do quite like having a better set up for the wet or the cold etc.
However, one can also consider some basic logic such as whether it is smarter to compromise ultimate performance during the dry and warm months and favour better performance at general speeds all time of year when conditions aren't ideal.
I've always run every day cars on all seasons. I'm not someone who frets too much about lap times on chore runs or needing to give a little more stopping time on a lovely summer's day but I do quite like having a better set up for the wet or the cold etc.
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