BMW M2C vs GR Yaris as a trackday car
Discussion
Hi,
I currently have two track cars: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0si (a bit on a hardcore side: partially stripped interior, bucket seats, half cage, stiff suspension with alu/uniball bushings etc) and Suzuki Swift Sport ZC31S (very basic prep, just bucket seats and suspension). I also have a BMW M2 Competition, which is a weekend car and 100% stock currently with less than 25.000km on the clock. I want to reduce the amount of cars and preferably lower the maintenance costs. I thinking about possible options, and one option is to sell Swift and prepare M2 for track. I have two concerns about that though: first, it's a bit heavy for a track car, I imagine its running cost will be relatively high just because of tires, brakes and fuel consumption. And the second concern is that the experience will be relatively similar to Z4, so probably not so much sense to keep two trackday BMWs.
Another option I'm considering is selling M2 and Swift, and trying something different. My shortlist now is I20N and GR Yaris mk1. I didn't drive I20N yet, but I drove a rental I30N on the Ring and really enjoyed the car. But I don't consider I30N because it's also quite heavy and large, so maybe I20N would be a good fit. I imagine it should not be very expensive to track. It also seem to be one of the few hot hatches on the market that come with a mechanical LSD, which is nice.
Another option is GR Yaris (mk1, because mk2 is too expensive yet). That AWD thing could be very fun, and I really like both Lancer Evolution VIII and fox-eye WRX that I owned back then. I guess it will also be not super expensive to run it on a track, though I've started briefly looking at the parts and for example suspension (coilovers set) for GR Yaris and M2 do not differ that much (e.g. Nitron NTR R3 is £4450.00 for GRY and £4824.00 for M2).
What do you think, how likely that I will regret selling M2? Will running costs for GRY be lower than M2?
I currently have two track cars: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0si (a bit on a hardcore side: partially stripped interior, bucket seats, half cage, stiff suspension with alu/uniball bushings etc) and Suzuki Swift Sport ZC31S (very basic prep, just bucket seats and suspension). I also have a BMW M2 Competition, which is a weekend car and 100% stock currently with less than 25.000km on the clock. I want to reduce the amount of cars and preferably lower the maintenance costs. I thinking about possible options, and one option is to sell Swift and prepare M2 for track. I have two concerns about that though: first, it's a bit heavy for a track car, I imagine its running cost will be relatively high just because of tires, brakes and fuel consumption. And the second concern is that the experience will be relatively similar to Z4, so probably not so much sense to keep two trackday BMWs.
Another option I'm considering is selling M2 and Swift, and trying something different. My shortlist now is I20N and GR Yaris mk1. I didn't drive I20N yet, but I drove a rental I30N on the Ring and really enjoyed the car. But I don't consider I30N because it's also quite heavy and large, so maybe I20N would be a good fit. I imagine it should not be very expensive to track. It also seem to be one of the few hot hatches on the market that come with a mechanical LSD, which is nice.
Another option is GR Yaris (mk1, because mk2 is too expensive yet). That AWD thing could be very fun, and I really like both Lancer Evolution VIII and fox-eye WRX that I owned back then. I guess it will also be not super expensive to run it on a track, though I've started briefly looking at the parts and for example suspension (coilovers set) for GR Yaris and M2 do not differ that much (e.g. Nitron NTR R3 is £4450.00 for GRY and £4824.00 for M2).
What do you think, how likely that I will regret selling M2? Will running costs for GRY be lower than M2?
Well, I'd say since the only car you haven't mentioned selling is the z4, so that's the one you'd actually keep.
Not sure why you'd need two track cars (in case one is broken?) But yes, I'd say a track prepped m2 will feel very similar to a track prepped z4, albeit with an extra 100-150bhp.
Obviously the cheapest car to run is the swift, but guessing it's become too slow for you. And yes, I'd say a yaris will be cheaper to run than an m2.
So yes, I'd sell the m2 and the swift, keep the z4 and buy a gr yaris.
Not sure why you'd need two track cars (in case one is broken?) But yes, I'd say a track prepped m2 will feel very similar to a track prepped z4, albeit with an extra 100-150bhp.
Obviously the cheapest car to run is the swift, but guessing it's become too slow for you. And yes, I'd say a yaris will be cheaper to run than an m2.
So yes, I'd sell the m2 and the swift, keep the z4 and buy a gr yaris.
I20n is well worth a look as a good road/track car. Fun to drive and very competent on track while also feeling good quality on the road. Definitely one of the best value cars of the last few years in my view.
GR Yaris is twice the money for half the fun. Again a very competent car but I find them rather unsatisfying on track, I can’t comment on how they are on the road but would imagine they do work well.
All that said, the M2 would make the best/fastest/most interesting to drive, pure track car. At a cost……..
GR Yaris is twice the money for half the fun. Again a very competent car but I find them rather unsatisfying on track, I can’t comment on how they are on the road but would imagine they do work well.
All that said, the M2 would make the best/fastest/most interesting to drive, pure track car. At a cost……..
Thanks for your thoughts.
Yes, I don't want to sell Z4, it's more or less complete as a trackday car, not very expensive nor hard to maintain, and I still enjoy driving it.
Two track cars are indeed handy if one breaks down.
FWIW, I didn't a full calculation on M2 vs GR Yaris track build (not only suspension) / maintenance and honestly the difference is not that huge that I've anticipated. It'd probably make sense if I didn't have one and was choosing, but selling one to buy another doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
For now I've decided to prep the M2. Maybe in a year or two I'll sell Z4 for Yaris or something else. For now I can just rent I20N or something similar on the Nordschleife if I start missing FWD driving. I haven't yet started buying parts for M2, so might still change my mind, but that's what I'm leaning to right now.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
Yes, I don't want to sell Z4, it's more or less complete as a trackday car, not very expensive nor hard to maintain, and I still enjoy driving it.
Two track cars are indeed handy if one breaks down.
FWIW, I didn't a full calculation on M2 vs GR Yaris track build (not only suspension) / maintenance and honestly the difference is not that huge that I've anticipated. It'd probably make sense if I didn't have one and was choosing, but selling one to buy another doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
For now I've decided to prep the M2. Maybe in a year or two I'll sell Z4 for Yaris or something else. For now I can just rent I20N or something similar on the Nordschleife if I start missing FWD driving. I haven't yet started buying parts for M2, so might still change my mind, but that's what I'm leaning to right now.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
I ran an M2C with the mission of making it faster and equally robust on track as a 718 GT4 but usable to take my kids to nursery. I managed it but the consumable costs were very high! The biggest limitations were the brakes and the seats followed by the rear suspension.
I'm now running a sub 1000kg track car and relish the fun and relative cheapness. Be prepared to spend lots of money.
I'm now running a sub 1000kg track car and relish the fun and relative cheapness. Be prepared to spend lots of money.
FTW said:
I ran an M2C with the mission of making it faster and equally robust on track as a 718 GT4 but usable to take my kids to nursery. I managed it but the consumable costs were very high! The biggest limitations were the brakes and the seats followed by the rear suspension.
I'm now running a sub 1000kg track car and relish the fun and relative cheapness. Be prepared to spend lots of money.
What do you mean by limitations, is that to driving fast or keeping the car dual duty?I'm now running a sub 1000kg track car and relish the fun and relative cheapness. Be prepared to spend lots of money.
Are consumables that bad? With ~1320 kg Z4 I roughly go with 1 set of CR-S per season and 2-3 sets of brake pads all around (recently switched from Ferodo DS1.11 to RSL29, will see if it changes anything).
PS Sub 1000kg track car, is that Lotus or something similar?
Edited by Novel on Friday 3rd October 18:28
Edited by Novel on Friday 3rd October 18:29
Hi, it's obviously been a while since last post but anyway thought I'd pitch in.
Have you considered a Caterham or similar ? Is a tin top mandatory ? Before I started racing ( finished now ), I used various cars on track days. Stating the obvious the heavier they were generally costs were higher, particularly mods trying to get them to handle and brake. The same applies now, your M2 is a good track car ( i had one till recently ) but costs are high in consumables and fuel.
If I went back I'd probably get something really lightweight straight away. Less costs, more fun and easier to resell. I found it was almost impossible to keep a car looking good if you track it without a lot of TLC.
Have you considered a Caterham or similar ? Is a tin top mandatory ? Before I started racing ( finished now ), I used various cars on track days. Stating the obvious the heavier they were generally costs were higher, particularly mods trying to get them to handle and brake. The same applies now, your M2 is a good track car ( i had one till recently ) but costs are high in consumables and fuel.
If I went back I'd probably get something really lightweight straight away. Less costs, more fun and easier to resell. I found it was almost impossible to keep a car looking good if you track it without a lot of TLC.
hooch500 said:
Hi, it's obviously been a while since last post but anyway thought I'd pitch in.
Have you considered a Caterham or similar ? Is a tin top mandatory ? Before I started racing ( finished now ), I used various cars on track days. Stating the obvious the heavier they were generally costs were higher, particularly mods trying to get them to handle and brake. The same applies now, your M2 is a good track car ( i had one till recently ) but costs are high in consumables and fuel.
If I went back I'd probably get something really lightweight straight away. Less costs, more fun and easier to resell. I found it was almost impossible to keep a car looking good if you track it without a lot of TLC.
I didn't consider Caterham. I feel more secure with a tin top, and also it's easier to store the closed roof car outside. Lotus does look very interesting, but have concerns about reliability, esp. the 2ZZ-GE engine. I know there's also 2GR-FE V6 engine in Exige S3, but that's way out of my budget.Have you considered a Caterham or similar ? Is a tin top mandatory ? Before I started racing ( finished now ), I used various cars on track days. Stating the obvious the heavier they were generally costs were higher, particularly mods trying to get them to handle and brake. The same applies now, your M2 is a good track car ( i had one till recently ) but costs are high in consumables and fuel.
If I went back I'd probably get something really lightweight straight away. Less costs, more fun and easier to resell. I found it was almost impossible to keep a car looking good if you track it without a lot of TLC.
It seems there are not too many more or less new and light cars. Suzuki Swift Sport 1.4 turbo (ZC33S) is probably one of them, weighting sub 1000kg, but owning ZC31S for a few years now I can say that I definitely don't like lack of aftermarket support. For BMW or, say, Miata there are countless options of camber plates, brake pads, anti roll bars, seat mount adaptors and what not. For Swift it's hard to find parts, and quite often their price is close to some BMW aftermarket parts. Ah, yeah, MX5 ND also very light, but for some reason this car doesn't click with me. I20N, F56 Mini, these all are already close to 1200kg, so in GR Yaris territory, which looks waay more interesting.
PS My Swift looks like this, TLC is not my thing
By the time youve prepped an M2 properly you might as well buy a GT4 that comes from the factory with cage, buckets, harnesses, competent brakes and suspension and a cooling system that works out of the box. This comes from someone with a track spec M2 and a Clubsport E92s (the mod route for M2s and 92s seems largely the same).
Weve also got a highly track modded Mk1 Yaris, though only chassis and brakes, not touched the engine.
The Yaris is tough as old boots, ultra reliable and ok on track but its not particularly exciting. The M2 is mild track spec (suspension, brakes, tyres and geo) but that lack of prep shows against the more hardcore E92s. If you want to make the M2 a proper track car then its going to require a chunk of work hence the GT4 comment. If I was building a proper track M2 Id buy a GT4 instead. So far we are trying to hold back but its already evident the M2s standard seats arent fit for track so it needs buckets next and then its a slipperly slope to rear cage, harnesses then the rear seats are pointless so rear seat delete and on it goes. The M2s brake feel is also crap, over servoed with front APs with little feel. The Yaris' brake pedal feels great even with an aftermarket brake kit as do the E92s.
I think we will sell it early next year for, yes youve guessed it, a GT4.
The M3s were bought already done so someone else felt the financial pain of the modifications.
Weve also got a highly track modded Mk1 Yaris, though only chassis and brakes, not touched the engine.
The Yaris is tough as old boots, ultra reliable and ok on track but its not particularly exciting. The M2 is mild track spec (suspension, brakes, tyres and geo) but that lack of prep shows against the more hardcore E92s. If you want to make the M2 a proper track car then its going to require a chunk of work hence the GT4 comment. If I was building a proper track M2 Id buy a GT4 instead. So far we are trying to hold back but its already evident the M2s standard seats arent fit for track so it needs buckets next and then its a slipperly slope to rear cage, harnesses then the rear seats are pointless so rear seat delete and on it goes. The M2s brake feel is also crap, over servoed with front APs with little feel. The Yaris' brake pedal feels great even with an aftermarket brake kit as do the E92s.
I think we will sell it early next year for, yes youve guessed it, a GT4.
The M3s were bought already done so someone else felt the financial pain of the modifications.
Novel said:
... Lotus does look very interesting, but have concerns about reliability, esp. the 2ZZ-GE engine.
I'd suggest those concerns are nothing to worry about. After many years on pistonheads and lotus forums as well as attending Lotus-on-Track track days, Toyota engine issues are virtually unheard of?You'll need a supercharged one for it to feel quick
Also I'm surprised a M2 can be in budget but that an Exige V6 can't be.
braddo said:
I'd suggest those concerns are nothing to worry about. After many years on pistonheads and lotus forums as well as attending Lotus-on-Track track days, Toyota engine issues are virtually unheard of?
Obviously, I don't have hands on experience with lotuses, but I read about certain issues. I also spotted some related onboards like that:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucJuJOk6ePQ
I also read that these engines are not ready out of the box. Specifically, they are prone to oil and fuel starvation in the corners. That's not such a big of a deal though, that's the same with N52 in Z4, which I had to solve with accusump (didn't solve the fuel starvation yet, just try to re-fuel fairly often).
braddo said:
You'll need a supercharged one for it to feel quick
Also I'm surprised a M2 can be in budget but that an Exige V6 can't be.
That's fairly simple. I don't need budget for M2 as I already own one. If I sell it here in the Netherlands, it'd likely go for 55k eur or less. Then, there are only 4 Exiges on the local market, three of them are S2s, and V6 one costs 76k eur. There are some more options in Germany, but the cheapest one there starts at 62k + pulling that from Germany will involve more expenses.Also I'm surprised a M2 can be in budget but that an Exige V6 can't be.
Paul_M3 said:
I'm sure the Exige would be a significantly cheaper car to own in terms of overall cost too (if you could manage the initial outlay)
I imagine. Also I guess SC S2 would be still way cheaper than S3.Novel said:
FTW said:
I ran an M2C with the mission of making it faster and equally robust on track as a 718 GT4 but usable to take my kids to nursery. I managed it but the consumable costs were very high! The biggest limitations were the brakes and the seats followed by the rear suspension.
I'm now running a sub 1000kg track car and relish the fun and relative cheapness. Be prepared to spend lots of money.
What do you mean by limitations, is that to driving fast or keeping the car dual duty?I'm now running a sub 1000kg track car and relish the fun and relative cheapness. Be prepared to spend lots of money.
Are consumables that bad? With ~1320 kg Z4 I roughly go with 1 set of CR-S per season and 2-3 sets of brake pads all around (recently switched from Ferodo DS1.11 to RSL29, will see if it changes anything).
PS Sub 1000kg track car, is that Lotus or something similar?
Edited by Novel on Friday 3rd October 18:28
Edited by Novel on Friday 3rd October 18:29
Seats don't hold you well enough on track but I needed to keep the folding function to access rear bench.
Rear suspension ran out of toe adjustment and needed to be upgraded to adjustable arms but they were all uniballs so didn't suit my daily drive brief.
Overall my mods were:
Litchfield remap
Pagid pads (£500 for front axle, £300 rear
)2 Piece floating discs
Bilstein Clubsport coilovers
Cup2 tyres
CG Lock
My rear tyres would last 1.5 trackdays (Cup2s) and pads 2 track track days. All driving done with DSC off.
It was mega fun and capable but there is no hiding that your hustling a 1500kg car around track.
FTW said:
My rear tyres would last 1.5 trackdays (Cup2s) and pads 2 track track days. All driving done with DSC off.
It was mega fun and capable but there is no hiding that your hustling a 1500kg car around track.
That's actually a really good example of how much consumable costs can vary between cars, and something people aren't always aware of.It was mega fun and capable but there is no hiding that your hustling a 1500kg car around track.
On my Exige 410 I also used Cup2 tyres and Pagid RSL29 pads.
The pads would last 8 - 10 track days, and the rear tyres would also last around 10 track days. The front tyres last even longer in terms of wear, and I actually replaced them with tread left because they'd just gone off through head cycles and felt a bit rubbish.
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