Missing a connecting flight
Discussion
We were pondering this one the other day and I can't find a definitive answer...
Had a connection through Schiphol (KLM to KLM) with a 50 minute gap between, also had to cross the EU border for the flight back to the UK, so it was tight and running was needed. They let me book it, so they must consider it doable.
Our incoming flight was a few minutes late, but then a massive taxi to gate and a bus transfer made it super tight - managed to make it with about 2 minutes to spare, so without running and some barging through the "everyone is using the short connection lane sir", wouldn't have had a chance. Unless they would have held it, but I would be surprised they would hold a full flight for two passengers, risk losing the ATC slot etc.
If our incoming flight was massively delayed, clearly they are on the hook. But what if I didn't run and missed it? I could have made it in theory - would they still cover me for compensation, hotel, another flight etc.? Where is the cut off - if you dawdle and miss it - your fault?
Had a connection through Schiphol (KLM to KLM) with a 50 minute gap between, also had to cross the EU border for the flight back to the UK, so it was tight and running was needed. They let me book it, so they must consider it doable.
Our incoming flight was a few minutes late, but then a massive taxi to gate and a bus transfer made it super tight - managed to make it with about 2 minutes to spare, so without running and some barging through the "everyone is using the short connection lane sir", wouldn't have had a chance. Unless they would have held it, but I would be surprised they would hold a full flight for two passengers, risk losing the ATC slot etc.
If our incoming flight was massively delayed, clearly they are on the hook. But what if I didn't run and missed it? I could have made it in theory - would they still cover me for compensation, hotel, another flight etc.? Where is the cut off - if you dawdle and miss it - your fault?
https://www.klm.co.uk/information/airport/transfer...
If you miss your connecting flight, they'll book you on the next one.
Not quite as simple as that, as you've already guessed - if there is less than 50 minutes to make your connection then yes, they'll be on the hook as per EU261. The flight counts as arrived when the doors open, so if you arrive on the Polderbaan runway (as UK flights often seem to...) then the taxi time almost certainly means that you'll miss a tight connection.
If you miss your connecting flight, they'll book you on the next one.
Not quite as simple as that, as you've already guessed - if there is less than 50 minutes to make your connection then yes, they'll be on the hook as per EU261. The flight counts as arrived when the doors open, so if you arrive on the Polderbaan runway (as UK flights often seem to...) then the taxi time almost certainly means that you'll miss a tight connection.
It depends.
If you've booked a through ticket with a single airline (even if some legs are operated by a code share partner airline) then your contract is with airline X to get you from A to C. If the leg from A to B is late and means you don't have time to make the connection to C then as @puggit said, airline X are still responsible for getting you to C.
On the other hand if you book two flights, one from A to B, then a second flight from B to C, I think even if it's with the same airline it's your problem. The bigger airlines may take pitty on you and put you on a later flight for just an administration fee but they might not and budget airlines almost certainly won't do that. In that case you're buying a new ticket at whatever price it happens to be/whenever there happens to be availability.
As for "would they hold the flight" within reason, and depending on baggage, they may well do - for a short time. If you were able to check your bags through from A-C and didn't need to collect/recheck them at B chances are your bags are already on the second flight - but they can't fly if you don't and best case that means they are going to have to unpack/repack one container to find/de-plane your bags. Clearly if they know your flight was only 5 minutes late it's better/overall quicker for them to give you a little extra time to make the flight than de-plane your bags - but there's going to be a point where they give up and pass the order to de-plane your bags and even if you make the gate at that point it's 'too late'.
If you've booked a through ticket with a single airline (even if some legs are operated by a code share partner airline) then your contract is with airline X to get you from A to C. If the leg from A to B is late and means you don't have time to make the connection to C then as @puggit said, airline X are still responsible for getting you to C.
On the other hand if you book two flights, one from A to B, then a second flight from B to C, I think even if it's with the same airline it's your problem. The bigger airlines may take pitty on you and put you on a later flight for just an administration fee but they might not and budget airlines almost certainly won't do that. In that case you're buying a new ticket at whatever price it happens to be/whenever there happens to be availability.
As for "would they hold the flight" within reason, and depending on baggage, they may well do - for a short time. If you were able to check your bags through from A-C and didn't need to collect/recheck them at B chances are your bags are already on the second flight - but they can't fly if you don't and best case that means they are going to have to unpack/repack one container to find/de-plane your bags. Clearly if they know your flight was only 5 minutes late it's better/overall quicker for them to give you a little extra time to make the flight than de-plane your bags - but there's going to be a point where they give up and pass the order to de-plane your bags and even if you make the gate at that point it's 'too late'.
In my experience, a few years ago I was going to Mauritius Manchester to Dubai, Dubai to Mauritius all with Emirates.
It was already pretty tight between the two flights in Dubai, but the Manchester flight was delayed by a few hours. Upon arrival in Dubai Emirates staff were already waiting for us (and others) with tickets for a later flight to Mauritius, it was handled really well.
However, many years ago going to LA, Manchester to Schipol (BA) then Schipol to LA (KLM) was a different story, we did make the LA flight but literally had to run from one terminal to another, I'm surprised we made it, but I asked at the gate if our hold luggage would make it, the girl on the KLM desk basically said no and that was the joys of flying. Sure enough bags didn't turn up and that's another story, needless to say I've never flown with KLM again.
It was already pretty tight between the two flights in Dubai, but the Manchester flight was delayed by a few hours. Upon arrival in Dubai Emirates staff were already waiting for us (and others) with tickets for a later flight to Mauritius, it was handled really well.
However, many years ago going to LA, Manchester to Schipol (BA) then Schipol to LA (KLM) was a different story, we did make the LA flight but literally had to run from one terminal to another, I'm surprised we made it, but I asked at the gate if our hold luggage would make it, the girl on the KLM desk basically said no and that was the joys of flying. Sure enough bags didn't turn up and that's another story, needless to say I've never flown with KLM again.
As above - it’s not clear if this was booked as one ticket or two. If it was one ticket what I have found is that when you arrive late at the interconnecting airport, airline reps will be there at the gate to meet you and ensure you get on the next flight. Or will inform you of the arrangements if that’s not possible.
On the other hand if it’s two tickets, even with the same airline they will not do anything to help.
I found that out the hard way a couple of years ago.
On the other hand if it’s two tickets, even with the same airline they will not do anything to help.
I found that out the hard way a couple of years ago.
It is much clearer when it is a single ticket vs. multiple or when it is a massive delay.
The bit I was unsure of was where the cut off for "you could have made it, it is your fault" vs. "you couldn't have made it, it is our fault" lies, which I believe Pugit has cleared up with the 50 minutes rule (or 40 for Schengen)
If I read the KLM link right, with the timings as they were, we were covered and essentially in the position where we could have ran, or could have chose to miss the flight, KLM rebook us and take the compensation, as we were inside the 50 minute window.
The bit I was unsure of was where the cut off for "you could have made it, it is your fault" vs. "you couldn't have made it, it is our fault" lies, which I believe Pugit has cleared up with the 50 minutes rule (or 40 for Schengen)
If I read the KLM link right, with the timings as they were, we were covered and essentially in the position where we could have ran, or could have chose to miss the flight, KLM rebook us and take the compensation, as we were inside the 50 minute window.
Mark V GTD said:
As above - it s not clear if this was booked as one ticket or two. If it was one ticket what I have found is that when you arrive late at the interconnecting airport, airline reps will be there at the gate to meet you and ensure you get on the next flight. Or will inform you of the arrangements if that s not possible.
On the other hand if it s two tickets, even with the same airline they will not do anything to help.
I found that out the hard way a couple of years ago.
This basically. My honeymoon flight was Aer Lingus Glasgow - Dublin - Los Angeles. The cargo door on the ATR operating the flight jammed at Glasgow resulting in the flight eventually leaving 3 hours late. On arrival at Dublin, exactly as Mark V says, there were airline reps waiting for the arrival & calling out specific onward destinations. The ones that were achievable got rushed to the US border post and on to their flights, the hopeless ones, including us, were taken to a desk to be rebooked for the following day and I was able to make an international phone call to the hotel as per the passenger rights. We got put up in an airport hotel overnight with a special basic dinner menu for airline passengers, but we got accommodation, meals and transport to/from the hotel. EU261 claim for a 23 1/2 hour delay for the full Glasgow to LAX journey was accepted and paid, so the whole mishap must have cost Stobart/Aer Lingus an absolute fortune.On the other hand if it s two tickets, even with the same airline they will not do anything to help.
I found that out the hard way a couple of years ago.
I have had to make a KLM to KLM connection at Schipol many times this year. Every time it has been a very tight window to get from one gate to another but every time I have made it.
Each time I have only had a small back pack with me so able to walk fairly quickly through the terminal.
The only time I was really stressed was when I was made to join the back of the queue for security and the attendants would not let me skip through. Still made it.
At passport control they generally do try to get you through if you show them your boarding pass. It can still be a bit stressful though.
Each time I have only had a small back pack with me so able to walk fairly quickly through the terminal.
The only time I was really stressed was when I was made to join the back of the queue for security and the attendants would not let me skip through. Still made it.
At passport control they generally do try to get you through if you show them your boarding pass. It can still be a bit stressful though.
NiceCupOfTea said:
I flew Salzburg to LHR last summer with a change at Frankfurt, with Lufthansa. There were two options, one with an hour or so transfer, another where I would be hanging around at Frankfurt for 4 hours or so. Chose the latter. Annoying, yes, but wasn't prepared to take the risk!
Have done similar from Dublin to Salzburg via Frankfurt with properly short transfer times and to their credit Lufthansa has always managed to get us to the next plane even when running late. Frankfurt can be absolute bedlam but they do seem to know what they are doing.Anyone had the opposite of this where the connecting flight decides to leave early?
Happened to me once. Flying to Minneapolis with a colleague via Toronto. Single booking with (IIRC), both boarding passes issues at LGW. Transat then American Airlines. Arrived at Toronto a little early and had around an hour and 40 mins until the next flight. No checking out or checking in so we went and grabbed a beer. Info showed the flight was boarding but still plenty of time so we sauntered off and arrived at the gate as the plane was pushing back a good 20 minutes before it should have!
No explanation given. Directed to the connections desk and issued a new boarding card for another flight scheduled to leave in an hour so no great shakes.
I think it was here I mentioned this previously and someone suggested the pilot may have wanted an earlier departure to avoid bad weather. Was a bit feisty so would have made sense.
Happened to me once. Flying to Minneapolis with a colleague via Toronto. Single booking with (IIRC), both boarding passes issues at LGW. Transat then American Airlines. Arrived at Toronto a little early and had around an hour and 40 mins until the next flight. No checking out or checking in so we went and grabbed a beer. Info showed the flight was boarding but still plenty of time so we sauntered off and arrived at the gate as the plane was pushing back a good 20 minutes before it should have!
No explanation given. Directed to the connections desk and issued a new boarding card for another flight scheduled to leave in an hour so no great shakes.
I think it was here I mentioned this previously and someone suggested the pilot may have wanted an earlier departure to avoid bad weather. Was a bit feisty so would have made sense.
Mark V GTD said:
On the other hand if it s two tickets, even with the same airline they will not do anything to help.
As it’s not a connecting flight, it’s 2 separate ones. Booking 2 separate flights with a short turnaround is risky at best. If your luggage is checked all the way to the end, then it’s on them even if you have to self transfer.
I did once arrive very delayed into JFK with a self transfer and so arrived at the connecting gate to find it had closed but the flight hadn’t departed.
I’ve never been to NYC so was already mentally planning a night as my colleague talked our way onboard, the bugger.
StevieBee said:
Anyone had the opposite of this where the connecting flight decides to leave early?
Happened to me once. Flying to Minneapolis with a colleague via Toronto. Single booking with (IIRC), both boarding passes issues at LGW. Transat then American Airlines. Arrived at Toronto a little early and had around an hour and 40 mins until the next flight. No checking out or checking in so we went and grabbed a beer. Info showed the flight was boarding but still plenty of time so we sauntered off and arrived at the gate as the plane was pushing back a good 20 minutes before it should have!
No explanation given. Directed to the connections desk and issued a new boarding card for another flight scheduled to leave in an hour so no great shakes.
I think it was here I mentioned this previously and someone suggested the pilot may have wanted an earlier departure to avoid bad weather. Was a bit feisty so would have made sense.
Aren't you supposed to be at the gate 30 mins before? Maybe they got an air traffic slot that was a bit early and went for it.Happened to me once. Flying to Minneapolis with a colleague via Toronto. Single booking with (IIRC), both boarding passes issues at LGW. Transat then American Airlines. Arrived at Toronto a little early and had around an hour and 40 mins until the next flight. No checking out or checking in so we went and grabbed a beer. Info showed the flight was boarding but still plenty of time so we sauntered off and arrived at the gate as the plane was pushing back a good 20 minutes before it should have!
No explanation given. Directed to the connections desk and issued a new boarding card for another flight scheduled to leave in an hour so no great shakes.
I think it was here I mentioned this previously and someone suggested the pilot may have wanted an earlier departure to avoid bad weather. Was a bit feisty so would have made sense.
I've been on a couple of early morning flights recently and they've pushed back before departure time, but I guess they check they've got everyone on first! A plane seemed oddly noisy over our house the other day so I looked on Flightradar and it was a 6AM easyJet flight that had taken off at 6:02 so it must have pushed back a good few mins before that.
shirt said:
As it s not a connecting flight, it s 2 separate ones. Booking 2 separate flights with a short turnaround is risky at best.
Strictly speaking, it is a connecting flight, as that's generally about the physical journey, rather than how it was ticketed, the term for having it on one single booking is called an interline ticket.I learn something new everyday.
On a related note, I fly regularly on a route with no direct option and almost always have to change my return date at late notice. At my previous employer it was possible to put the return to open status, and just pay the fare difference when confirming the return leg. This doesn’t seem to be an option with my current employer even though all bookings are made with an agent. Have things changed or am I using the wrong terminology?
On a related note, I fly regularly on a route with no direct option and almost always have to change my return date at late notice. At my previous employer it was possible to put the return to open status, and just pay the fare difference when confirming the return leg. This doesn’t seem to be an option with my current employer even though all bookings are made with an agent. Have things changed or am I using the wrong terminology?
I also flew into Schiphol (KLM to KLM) with a 50 minute gap for a transfer. I literally had to sprint to make the transfer. As I discovered, 50 mins transfer time at Schiphol is VERY tight. It was my first time at that airport and I don’t realise how big it was. Nor was I ready for both flights being at the completely opposite ends of the airport! But I made it……..JUST!
I would never fly KLM again, but for completely other reasons.
I would never fly KLM again, but for completely other reasons.
Some of the KLM City Hopper flights land at the Polderbaan runway which takes a while to get to the terminal. This can cause connection issues and the stewards usually announce the terminal connections on landing according to the passengers on the flight and let them know which gate they need to run to!
InitialDave said:
shirt said:
As it s not a connecting flight, it s 2 separate ones. Booking 2 separate flights with a short turnaround is risky at best.
Strictly speaking, it is a connecting flight, as that's generally about the physical journey, rather than how it was ticketed, the term for having it on one single booking is called an interline ticket.Alorotom said:
I always thought it was called a protected transfer or protected connection when it was on a single ticket/booking ... everyday is indeed a schoolday
I think you're correct and we're talking about very slightly different aspects of the same thing.My understanding is:
Connection - any pairing of flights to create the overall travel to an end destination.
Protected connection - where it is the responsibility of the airline to facilitate you making that connection, and reroute as necessary if they can't
Interline ticket - a booking of multiple flights on one single ticket number, such that the connections are protected.
I think technically interline should only be used when its a single ticket across multiple carriers, but i find it less confusing to use as a blanket term than "single ticket"
Edited by InitialDave on Thursday 2nd October 10:30
Freakuk said:
However, many years ago going to LA, Manchester to Schipol (BA) then Schipol to LA (KLM) was a different story, we did make the LA flight but literally had to run from one terminal to another, I'm surprised we made it, but I asked at the gate if our hold luggage would make it, the girl on the KLM desk basically said no and that was the joys of flying. Sure enough bags didn't turn up and that's another story, needless to say I've never flown with KLM again.
I'd have to say that's a little unfair on KLM. You were late because of a delay on a flight operated by a different airline and completely out of KLM's hands/control. Do you really expect them to delay the whole LA flight while BA mess around unloading your bags from their plane/trundle them through the baggage handing system/get delivered to the KLM plane/having to reopen the hold and load the bags, annoying a plane full of passengers for the next 11 hours?Sounds more like you should never be flying with BA again rather than KLM (at least WRT this incident).
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