Limitations of a House - Going Beyond
Discussion
I wasn't sure how to title this one so hopefully I'll make a better explanation in here.
Have you ever seen or perhaps experienced yourself, someone who's made so many changes to a property you wonder why they don't just move house?
My old property started as a semi-detached 2 bed bungalow, our neighbours converted theirs to a four bed semi which worked extremely well, we did the same and you'd be hard pressed at least from the interior to know it wasn't built that way. But the neighbours didn't stop there, they took down their garage and spent £80k on a pool/hot tub, then extended the back of the house.
My mums neighbours are doing an extension now. My mums house, four bed semi but garage was converted to a ground floor bedroom and en suite for my dad who was wheelchair bound. But her neighbours are part way through an extension which is the full height and entire side of the house, going out at the back on what will be three floors etc.
I can't help look at a house and see no matter what you do it will still be limited by it's original design to some extent. Baffles me people don't just move house?
Maybe I'm just missing something but I can't help feel there are limits to what you can do with specific properties.
Have you ever seen or perhaps experienced yourself, someone who's made so many changes to a property you wonder why they don't just move house?
My old property started as a semi-detached 2 bed bungalow, our neighbours converted theirs to a four bed semi which worked extremely well, we did the same and you'd be hard pressed at least from the interior to know it wasn't built that way. But the neighbours didn't stop there, they took down their garage and spent £80k on a pool/hot tub, then extended the back of the house.
My mums neighbours are doing an extension now. My mums house, four bed semi but garage was converted to a ground floor bedroom and en suite for my dad who was wheelchair bound. But her neighbours are part way through an extension which is the full height and entire side of the house, going out at the back on what will be three floors etc.
I can't help look at a house and see no matter what you do it will still be limited by it's original design to some extent. Baffles me people don't just move house?
Maybe I'm just missing something but I can't help feel there are limits to what you can do with specific properties.
Location, location, location.
In addition, if the houses that do meet the spec. are outside the buyer's price range, buying a house past its best before date and demolishing, or substantially altering it, gets a property that is closer to the buyer's wants and needs, with the added benefit that its layout and everything in it is what the buyer prefers.
In addition, if the houses that do meet the spec. are outside the buyer's price range, buying a house past its best before date and demolishing, or substantially altering it, gets a property that is closer to the buyer's wants and needs, with the added benefit that its layout and everything in it is what the buyer prefers.
Some of it stems from the fact you can do quite a lot of building work for the cost of moving house, stamp duty and all that.
I do feel that many houses are extended to the point that they are on a too-small site. A lot of that around here, but if you want to be 3 minutes from the beach, you don't get a big site. Crowding yourself in some godforsaken corner of suburbia is harder to understand.
Losing a chunk of the only decent-sized bedroom for stairs to a loft conversion is a classic.
Then again, a look around a new-build show home can make extending something older look like a good idea.
Limitations of an island, building too many s
tty little homes?
I do feel that many houses are extended to the point that they are on a too-small site. A lot of that around here, but if you want to be 3 minutes from the beach, you don't get a big site. Crowding yourself in some godforsaken corner of suburbia is harder to understand.
Losing a chunk of the only decent-sized bedroom for stairs to a loft conversion is a classic.
Then again, a look around a new-build show home can make extending something older look like a good idea.
Limitations of an island, building too many s
tty little homes?GliderRider said:
Location, location, location.
^This... plus how much extra something better would be.We've considered moving but anything we feel is enough of an upgrade to be worth it is *significantly* more expensive. We can find bigger but in worse locations (not in terms of "dodgy" but closer to the motorway/A-roads etc, awkward to get to schools/work etc, no local amenities).
Plus the costs of moving are considerable. By the time you've blown a big chunk on Stamp Duty, Solicitors fees, estate agent fees and moving costs that can be a large chunk towards an extension. We did a loft conversion on ours[1] and considered that if we'd moved instead we'd have burnt nearly 2/3rds of the cost of it. So had the choice to almost literally throw that money away or to increase the house value by more than we spent on it.
Also don't underestimate the emotional aspect of it, if they've been there for a long time then the house can have a disproportionate emotional attachment even though logically it may not make sense.
[1] Losing zero bedroom space as we had a massive landing and the new staircase merely ate into the headroom above the original stairs.
Edited by Fastdruid on Wednesday 1st October 11:32
As others have said, there are often limited houses available in areas people want to live (close to good schools, railway stations etc etc.
If you like where you live then there’s a strong emotional and practical pull factor to staying there, particularly as moving has risks, you might get more road noise, dodgy neighbours etc etc.
Moving can take a lot of time - it take years to find a place you like and actually move there, whereas building an extension (particularly if done under Permitted Development), can be done in a relatively predictable timescale.
Moving is expensive - stamp duty, moving costs, estate agents fees can easily get close to or even exceed the cost of an extension (particularly in areas with high house prices, like London).
If you like where you live then there’s a strong emotional and practical pull factor to staying there, particularly as moving has risks, you might get more road noise, dodgy neighbours etc etc.
Moving can take a lot of time - it take years to find a place you like and actually move there, whereas building an extension (particularly if done under Permitted Development), can be done in a relatively predictable timescale.
Moving is expensive - stamp duty, moving costs, estate agents fees can easily get close to or even exceed the cost of an extension (particularly in areas with high house prices, like London).
Fully agree with the plot thing.
There is a growing trend to completely fill the available land with marketable bricks and mortar.
This is a prime example. For reference, this is a high end price for Minehead. Lovely house but lots of rooms compromised by the roof line, and absolutely sod all garden. Just a strip round the edges.
I wouldn’t pay that much without a decent garden, although I accept that the priorities of others might differ.
Personally, my priority is being able to pay off the mortgage this decade and become free. House isn’t perfect but slowly getting there and I’d rather spend money improving this than on stamp duty.
I could extend, but gains would be marginal for the eye watering cost that building commands now!
There is a growing trend to completely fill the available land with marketable bricks and mortar.
This is a prime example. For reference, this is a high end price for Minehead. Lovely house but lots of rooms compromised by the roof line, and absolutely sod all garden. Just a strip round the edges.
I wouldn’t pay that much without a decent garden, although I accept that the priorities of others might differ.
Personally, my priority is being able to pay off the mortgage this decade and become free. House isn’t perfect but slowly getting there and I’d rather spend money improving this than on stamp duty.
I could extend, but gains would be marginal for the eye watering cost that building commands now!
I am moving now for exactly this reason.
I could throw £50-80k at improving my current 1970's semi-detached house and plot. It is in a better street and town, but the street has a ceiling of price, and at the end of the day I still have a house with odd / small rooms and less than great layout on an awkward plot. I would have to live through a few months of renovations. Some neighbours have done this, but I am not convinced.
Or I can spend a (fixed) £82k moving to a bigger, brand new, better insulated, solar panelled, better plot and much much better layout house, but which is in a slightly less desirable location.
I am moving.
I could throw £50-80k at improving my current 1970's semi-detached house and plot. It is in a better street and town, but the street has a ceiling of price, and at the end of the day I still have a house with odd / small rooms and less than great layout on an awkward plot. I would have to live through a few months of renovations. Some neighbours have done this, but I am not convinced.
Or I can spend a (fixed) £82k moving to a bigger, brand new, better insulated, solar panelled, better plot and much much better layout house, but which is in a slightly less desirable location.
I am moving.
We could be accused of this, just had planning approved to double the size of our ~1,750sqft house.
After that it'll be more than enough for our needs. Why extend and not build...
1) we have headroom in the roads ceiling price so should break even with the highest sale on the road (small close of 16 similar houses), even though ours will be 25% larger/better plot
2) moving would incur £15k in legal/agent costs (if the market lets us sell at all), SDLT of £120k and then a minimum of £20k doing things to make the purchased house to the right tastes decoratively.
3) we like our close, we like our neighbours, our friends live locally, my golf club is 5 mins away, our family are close (but far enough away) and the commute time is decent
Together the cost of moving is c40% of the redevelopment cost. Doing the work and not moving will give us all the house we ever need - 5/6 beds, 3/4 receptions plus 1.5 car garage, separate gym and separate golf simulator/cinema rooms and hopefully let me retire at 55-60!
After that it'll be more than enough for our needs. Why extend and not build...
1) we have headroom in the roads ceiling price so should break even with the highest sale on the road (small close of 16 similar houses), even though ours will be 25% larger/better plot
2) moving would incur £15k in legal/agent costs (if the market lets us sell at all), SDLT of £120k and then a minimum of £20k doing things to make the purchased house to the right tastes decoratively.
3) we like our close, we like our neighbours, our friends live locally, my golf club is 5 mins away, our family are close (but far enough away) and the commute time is decent
Together the cost of moving is c40% of the redevelopment cost. Doing the work and not moving will give us all the house we ever need - 5/6 beds, 3/4 receptions plus 1.5 car garage, separate gym and separate golf simulator/cinema rooms and hopefully let me retire at 55-60!
Not me but next door, 1960 semi in suburban Bristol
It had a loft conversion when they bought it (1 bed, 1 bath)
They needed more room, looked at moving but the cost for anything worth having was around £175-200k inc moving costs.
Biggest ground floor rear extension possible within PD (done) and a porch with downstairs shower room (maybe next) is probably costing around £125/140k
They like where they live, it's probably over developing the house/plot really and the total investment inc the loft conversion won't wash it's face but you gotta live somewhere.
It had a loft conversion when they bought it (1 bed, 1 bath)
They needed more room, looked at moving but the cost for anything worth having was around £175-200k inc moving costs.
Biggest ground floor rear extension possible within PD (done) and a porch with downstairs shower room (maybe next) is probably costing around £125/140k
They like where they live, it's probably over developing the house/plot really and the total investment inc the loft conversion won't wash it's face but you gotta live somewhere.
There seemed to be a prevailing belief that any development cost would be added on to the eventual selling price, which for many years may have been true... but with the costs as they are now, and low capital appreciation... perhaps the property development trend will fade somewhat.
All eyes on the budget for changes to stamp duty, council tax, capital gains...
All eyes on the budget for changes to stamp duty, council tax, capital gains...
Hustle_ said:
There seemed to be a prevailing belief that any development cost would be added on to the eventual selling price, which for many years may have been true... but with the costs as they are now, and low capital appreciation... perhaps the property development trend will fade somewhat.
All eyes on the budget for changes to stamp duty, council tax, capital gains...
It seems to be changing to himo development around here .All eyes on the budget for changes to stamp duty, council tax, capital gains...
From walks around my area, it seems every other house is having an extension or loft conversion done. I get where the OP is coming from, but I can also see the appeal of adapting the home you already have, which you might love in every way apart from wanting more space or whatever. It also saves all the hassle and cost of moving/conveyancing, and the effort/uncertainty of finding a new house. But it's true these works don't always cover their costs if you eventually do sell up.
kiethton said:
Together the cost of moving is c40% of the redevelopment cost. Doing the work and not moving will give us all the house we ever need - 5/6 beds, 3/4 receptions plus 1.5 car garage, separate gym and separate golf simulator/cinema rooms and hopefully let me retire at 55-60!
The only bit I take issue with is the 1.5 car garage. This is PH for heaven's sake... a 10 room house needs a quintuple garage just to get the proportions right!Of the 3 houses of our sub cul-de-sac, I would say that we are borderline and the house at the end has gone too far.
They were the 3 show houses for the development, ours was the detached 3 bed, on a decent corner plot and had a full height extension over the garage to add another reception room and bigger kitchen downstairs, and extra bedroom and family bathroom upstairs. With the original family bathroom being converted into a 5th bedroom. Then 2 of the other bedrooms were knocked into 1. A double garage was also built. So we have ended up with a 4/5 bedroom house, with a double garage and a fairly small garden. It does have a few weird quirks like some rooms being smaller that you would expect for the size of house and the garden layout. But the location is good, and small house with double garage suits me fine.
Next door to us is just the standard house, done up well, I think it was the bigger style of house on the development.
The first house has gone from a medium 4 bed detached with a garage to a huge monstrosity, that looks very out of place, with white render and grey windows/trims etc - when all of the other houses on the road are bricks and white/brown UPVC. It would be a nice house, but looks out of place on our road. They also have a huge dormer on the back - the only one on the whole estate. Which they had to go through quite a few rounds of planning/appeals to get approved. Hopefully it has not started a precedent, as it looks massively out of place. I can't tell you what is inside, as there are no walls/floors/staircase - you can see out through the dormer windows from the downstairs windows at the front. Work has stopped. I thought it might be due to planning issues, but it all seems to be approved, so I guess they ran out of money.
They were the 3 show houses for the development, ours was the detached 3 bed, on a decent corner plot and had a full height extension over the garage to add another reception room and bigger kitchen downstairs, and extra bedroom and family bathroom upstairs. With the original family bathroom being converted into a 5th bedroom. Then 2 of the other bedrooms were knocked into 1. A double garage was also built. So we have ended up with a 4/5 bedroom house, with a double garage and a fairly small garden. It does have a few weird quirks like some rooms being smaller that you would expect for the size of house and the garden layout. But the location is good, and small house with double garage suits me fine.
Next door to us is just the standard house, done up well, I think it was the bigger style of house on the development.
The first house has gone from a medium 4 bed detached with a garage to a huge monstrosity, that looks very out of place, with white render and grey windows/trims etc - when all of the other houses on the road are bricks and white/brown UPVC. It would be a nice house, but looks out of place on our road. They also have a huge dormer on the back - the only one on the whole estate. Which they had to go through quite a few rounds of planning/appeals to get approved. Hopefully it has not started a precedent, as it looks massively out of place. I can't tell you what is inside, as there are no walls/floors/staircase - you can see out through the dormer windows from the downstairs windows at the front. Work has stopped. I thought it might be due to planning issues, but it all seems to be approved, so I guess they ran out of money.
Edited by Craikeybaby on Wednesday 1st October 21:47
Not quite on the brief, but saw this and thought of this thread -
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146699933#/...
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146699933#/...
OutInTheShed said:
Some of it stems from the fact you can do quite a lot of building work for the cost of moving house, stamp duty and all that.
I do feel that many houses are extended to the point that they are on a too-small site. A lot of that around here, but if you want to be 3 minutes from the beach, you don't get a big site. Crowding yourself in some godforsaken corner of suburbia is harder to understand.
Losing a chunk of the only decent-sized bedroom for stairs to a loft conversion is a classic.
Then again, a look around a new-build show home can make extending something older look like a good idea.
Limitations of an island, building too many stty little homes?
Less to do with that and more to do with the planning system and to an extent the idiotic way the property bubble has been used by weak politicians as a substitute for economic growth. Regulation should deter overdevelopment, equally it should deter underdevelopment but that's veering off to taxation rather than planning.I do feel that many houses are extended to the point that they are on a too-small site. A lot of that around here, but if you want to be 3 minutes from the beach, you don't get a big site. Crowding yourself in some godforsaken corner of suburbia is harder to understand.
Losing a chunk of the only decent-sized bedroom for stairs to a loft conversion is a classic.
Then again, a look around a new-build show home can make extending something older look like a good idea.
Limitations of an island, building too many s
tty little homes?Another factor that hasn't received a mention is expanded families.
If two people, each with children already, move into one house, they may be able to extend the house to give each child a separate bedroom. In this scenario, a council may grant permission for an extension that they wouldn't have otherwise.
If two people, each with children already, move into one house, they may be able to extend the house to give each child a separate bedroom. In this scenario, a council may grant permission for an extension that they wouldn't have otherwise.
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