RE: Tolman introduces Group B restoration service
RE: Tolman introduces Group B restoration service
Thursday 2nd October

Tolman introduces Group B restoration service

RS200 and T16 are now back in use thanks to Tolman's expertise - and a 5 Turbo 2 is coming next...


We all like to see classic cars being used. That is, after all, what they were intended for. But we also all know how it goes when trying to source parts for certain old cars; they don’t get laid up intentionally, the problem is simply one of supply. A problem only made worse in lots of cases if the vehicle is a limited edition. Manufacturers aren’t inclined to support a tiny number of old vehicles. 

The issue is especially bad for Group B road cars - and, by extension, owners. Yes, first-world problems and all that, but you only need to witness the reaction to these machines at Sunday Services (when we’re really lucky) to see what mid-'80s rallying still means to people. There are some very special cars out there that keepers want to drive and enthusiasts want to see, but thanks to patchy availability, they’re being kept tucked away. If you can’t get fresh tyres for a mid-engined French hatchback worth hundreds of thousands, for example, you aren’t going to drive it…

Enter Tolman Engineering, and its new service offering recommissions for Group B homologation specials. It isn’t just some nice idea, either - they’ve already finished two, a Peugeot 205 T16 and Ford RS200. Predictably enough, they look sensational. Tolman says the aim is to ‘rediscover the thrill of these legendary machines, not just as static collectables, but as dynamic, capable road cars.’ Amen to that. 

Not that it’s been an easy task, of course, requiring the development of numerous new components for both. Group B ended almost 40 years ago, and plenty of parts from road cars will have been taken for various projects over the years. So for the T16, Tolman created a bespoke cambelt timing and pulley kit, front anti-roll bar bushes, and CNC-formed coolant pipes. They even rebuilt the gearbox, somehow getting hold of ratios through contacts in France. Dampers were reassembled, and there are even Michelin TRX tyres out there somewhere. Who you know, not what you know, as always. 

Tolman, of course, has some 205 experience with the 205 GTI Edition, and there are said to be some transferable skills. Founder Chris Tolman added: “We can apply our knowledge to pretty much any model to dial up the driving experience, reliability and performance. Knowing your car is properly sorted can transform your feelings and enthusiasm to get out and use it.” Which sounds a pretty irresistible offer for those that can; no wonder a 5 Turbo 2 is coming next, with demand for everything from a Group A Evo to a historic MGB coming Tolman’s way. 

As for the 1,200-mile (!) RS200, it now benefits from an ECU upgrade that should make it more driveable and reliable, so there’ll be no excuse for not adding to that tally. Tolman actually says that any fuel-injected Group B car can benefit from the electronic tweak, so if there is a Sport Quattro or Delta S4 lying around that doesn’t run as it should, you know who to call. With the process for these two enabling the reproduction of plenty of new parts, the hope is that more Group B icons can be returned to a driveable state. Which would be fantastic.

“Even with the best intentions, not exercising a car, especially those increasing in value, can lead to more headaches,” added Tolman. “Rubber components such as belts, engine or drivetrain seals and fuel lines will deteriorate over time, making them potentially unsafe or unreliable. The scarcity of parts means those that are fitted might be beyond their planned life, so you can’t push the cars to get the most out of what they can offer... Just like our Tolman Editions, we want owners to experience these cars as they were meant to be - thrilling, engaging and alive.”

While no price has been published for either of these recommissions, given what a Tolman 205 costs, it’s clearly not going to be a cost-effective endeavour if you're currently using Shed of the Week as a buying guide. Good job values of Group B cars show no signs of easing, then - see the £625,000 Audi Quattro


Author
Discussion

alex_2015

Original Poster:

270 posts

55 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
I guess the servicing will require deep pockets. It's not like you get the parts and go to your local shop. Their service is also included.

On the other side it was refreshing to see that dashboard resembling Ford Sierra. Brings back ol' memories of the 80s 90s when dashboards were just purposeful and practical: just clusters of instruments/controls, practically within reach of the driver. Just what you needed. Unlike this fashion of German living room interiors bloated with useless elements and design tricks. Just to make you feel more accomplished and important, so that they can squeeze more money out of you. And then we ask ourselves why current cars get so heavy, complex and less reliable.

Edited by alex_2015 on Thursday 2nd October 08:02

howardhughes

1,290 posts

224 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
If memory serves me well, a resto on these are north of 100k and the rest.

Turini

454 posts

186 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
Group B still stands out as iconic even after 40 plus years. If only funds would allow..

fatsams

37 posts

193 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
Having just gone through the 6 month process of restoring my late 1970’s world rally car special, I fully understand the problems and difficulties of restoring one of these homologation “specials”. It’s just great to keep these cars on the road and being used. Yes, its not cheap to go through the process but the end value makes it well worth while.

PorkerHam

167 posts

62 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
Out of interest, on photo 7, of the RS200, what does the 2nd "gearstick" do, next to the gearstick?

Does that change the braking balance or something?


gt40steve

1,122 posts

124 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
PorkerHam said:
Out of interest, on photo 7, of the RS200, what does the 2nd "gearstick" do, next to the gearstick?

Does that change the braking balance or something?
Transfer box lever. Three position.
Giving rear wheel drive, 50 / 50 lock or 37 / 63 torque split.
Most cars run permanently in 37 / 63 with many having the lever removed.

nismo48

5,887 posts

227 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
Glad Tolman keeping the dream alive for these iconic cars. Had a drive back in the day in a Metro 6R4, raw,visceral and very unforgiving but what a beast.

steveb8189

516 posts

211 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
alex_2015 said:
And then we ask ourselves why current cars get so heavy, complex and less reliable.

Edited by alex_2015 on Thursday 2nd October 08:02
You must be looking through some rose tinted spectacles to think moders cars are less reliable. Sure, they're more complex and little things can go wrong but I think you're far less likely to end up on the side of the road than 30 years ago.

BigChiefmuffinAgain

1,518 posts

118 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
My father had an RS200 back in the day. Last one made, I seem to recall. It had a few extra options installed by Tickford. Lovely chassis and balance but the clutch was very fast - almost an off/switch. Combined with an almost non-existent hand brake and hill starts became quite a challenge. You certainly wouldn't want to have to try and pull out of a tight parking space on a hill.....

GTRene

20,341 posts

244 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
love those specials, I do love a RS200, but to be honest, those look a bit to much kit-kar, so I would choose always the 205 T16 for using it on the road, always wanted one of those, but prices getting more crazy over time and going way out of budget, stopped it.

Closed came when a very lovely later build as new example came up for sale in the UK, could buy it then for 100k euro a few years ago... but, had to sell my car back then so... I was to late, it went shortly after that.

superb car, not like a kit kar, not screaming to loud look at me, but when you look and spot it its. wow.

ah, was this one, back in 2019 it was I believe.




alex_2015

Original Poster:

270 posts

55 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
steveb8189 said:
You must be looking through some rose tinted spectacles to think moders cars are less reliable. Sure, they're more complex and little things can go wrong but I think you're far less likely to end up on the side of the road than 30 years ago.
I don't have statistics on hand. But I think reliability has improved continuously peaking somewhere 20-30 years ago (late 90s early 2000s). Then cars started having lots of clutter and becoming less reliable overall. Not necessarily catastrophic failures nowadays - as you say - but plenty of things to end up in a miserable ownership experience / inability of usage / large bills. I am an ex Bmw owner (had 2 in previous decade) so from my own experience and of community I can tell you lots of things can go wrong( all those automations, actuators, wiring, modules, auto gearboxes, widespread engine distribution chains failures, etc). Also for long term ownership (beyond warranty) you need to be prepared with deep pockets.

Edited by alex_2015 on Thursday 2nd October 17:08

LotusOmega375D

8,975 posts

173 months

Thursday 2nd October
quotequote all
I see that they are restoring an R5 Turbo 2 next. They really aren’t that complicated or difficult to maintain. I had one for 14 years. Lots of generic parts were used, which were easily replaced. Michelin re-made the TRX tyres. Mine was never off the road during all of that time.

Chris der Kerl

29 posts

85 months

Saturday 4th October
quotequote all
The second gear shift on the RS200 allowed the driver to select "normal" 4 wheel drive, locked center diff or 2 wheel (rear) drive. As the original owner of car#124, I used the locked center diff option once to dig myself out of a beach . . . biggrin

generationx

8,695 posts

125 months

Saturday 4th October
quotequote all
Dad was on the Ford Motorsport development team for the RS200 and, together with Bob Howe, ran road cars as “dailies” for over four years, the last being the first red one ever built. Sensational cars with limitless grip, horrendous in low speed or reversing situations. The first truly quick car I drove.

So one of those please!