Airliner points, pointless?

[Peeping Turtle]

Im not a much of a frequent flier, I travel from NY to London once or twice a year to visit family, over the last few years i have accumulated just over 28,000 points at Virgin

Looking to book a flight home again and noticing the 'fly one way economy New York to London from ( ) 7000points), i thought, lets see how much i can save using my points

First i looked at costs without any membership benefits, total cost (one way 'main cabin (economy delight) the way back to the US with a premium seat

Net cost was USD1,268

I then booked the same flights (flight out was diff by 30mins due to not offering the one i had selected (assume thats because it was Virgin via Delta) but the price was the same as cash price earlier so should be100pct comparable
Return was exactly the same flight and seat

So for the outward flight they wanted 49k points plus cash (i think 350 i didnt take note) for airport TAX and then just 5k points for the premium return leg , plus TAX (around the same as the out flight.)

So this added up to CASH 732.63 PLUS 53.5k in points

I took a look at cost of buying another 26k points to make up the difference between my 28k to the 54k required, 26k is 550USD

So net net, if i use points, not only do i get a restricted flight options, but i also pay cash 1,282!

so i would lose all my points plus pay 14USD more for a restricted choice of flights!!!

Is this normal?

Its not a last minute flight (first week of Dec) and its 'green (ie cheapest)' dates on Kayak, so whats the point of points? pointless?

Edited by Peeping Turtle on Thursday 2nd October 16:19

[fat80b]

Peeping Turtle said:

Im not a much of a frequent flier, I travel from NY to London once or twice a year to visit family, over the last few years i have accumulated just over 28,000 points at Virgin

Looking to book a flight home again and noticing the 'fly one way economy New York to London from ( ) 7000points), i thought, lets see how much i can save using my points

First i looked at costs without any membership benefits, total cost (one way 'main cabin (economy delight) the way back to the US with a premium seat

Net cost was USD1,268

I then booked the same flights (flight out was diff by 30mins due to not offering the one i had selected (assume thats because it was Virgin via Delta) but the price was the same as cash price earlier so should be100pct comparable
Return was exactly the same flight and seat

So for the outward flight they wanted 49k points plus cash (i think 350 i didnt take note) for airport TAX and then just 5k points for the premium return leg , plus TAX (around the same as the out flight.)

So this added up to CASH 732.63 PLUS 53.5k in points

I took a look at cost of buying another 26k points to make up the difference between my 28k to the 54k required, 26k is 550USD

So net net, if i use points, not only do i get a restricted flight options, but i also pay cash 1,282!

so i would lose all my points plus pay 14USD more for a restricted choice of flights!!!

Is this normal?

Its not a last minute flight (first week of Dec) and its 'green (ie cheapest)' dates on Kayak, so whats the point of points? pointless?

Afraid you are not doing it right - You need to a) have more points that you collect at much "lower cost" to you, and b) spend them where you get a "higher return" for them.

The usual way to do this is to collect through multiple channels (inc CC spending, offers, and flights in business cabins paid for by your company etc) and then spend them on family holidays in business class (where the best bang for buck is). (p.s. buying miles tends to be an expensive way to get them)

e.g. I collect >150K per year plus 3 companion tickets, and spend them every year.

This year, me and the boy went BA club to Tokyo return for £1100.....

[spaximus]

Virgin has changed things for the worse. When you spend over £20k on a Virgin Atlantic credit card you get a reward seat.

Last year I booked one seat using my points and the reward seat took my wife free in premium economy to LA and back. Now the value of the reward is in points rather than equivalent seat so we looked at using them to Grenada to be told they now have a maximum value of 75000 points which now is less attractive.

It was cheaper to buy a holiday package from a company with flights than the cost to use the points and top up direct with Virgin. I now have a lot of points which will still cost to use since the change.

I am not sure how other schemes stack up but the Virgin one has lost it's attractivness

[craig1912]

Two of us are going to Antigua Premium for £1500 and points. The Virgin scheme is nowhere near as good as it was and we are thinking of switching credit cards.
Going to Lisbon in Jan for £2 and some Avios.
With all schemes the more flexible you can be the better.

[Guyr]

As above, Virgin points redemption has 'gone to crap' as the pricing is now dynamic, it allows them to say flights are always available for points, but almost all flights are now super expensive for points. BA is harder to find the flights, but at least the pricing is stable.

We've done 10-20 Business/First Transatlantic using BA points, but it requires dedicated efforts to collects the points and then optimising their use.

We just did Business out/back from Miami on BA in August/Sept, but the entire holiday was planned around the only day in summer that we could get a pair of Business flights outbound.

[Tony_T]

fat80b said:

Afraid you are not doing it right - You need to a) have more points that you collect at much "lower cost" to you, and b) spend them where you get a "higher return" for them.

The usual way to do this is to collect through multiple channels (inc CC spending, offers, and flights in business cabins paid for by your company etc) and then spend them on family holidays in business class (where the best bang for buck is). (p.s. buying miles tends to be an expensive way to get them)

e.g. I collect >150K per year plus 3 companion tickets, and spend them every year.

This year, me and the boy went BA club to Tokyo return for £1100.....

Hi, would really appreciate some more info on how you managed this? I'm looking to go to Japan next year and would love to fly business class (even if just one leg). Currently have 70k Virgin points + upgrade voucher and 70k Avios. Everytime i look to fly long distance on Virgin with points the taxes/fees seem very high.

[Ry.Clarke]

We have a bunch of them as we both use the Barclaycard that does the Avios.

Unfortunately, we cannot really afford a decent holiday to make them worth using, so they just sit there. They are completely pointless to use for the week in Tenerife we get every 3 years.

[c32dave]

Might get a better response to this in holidays and travel .

I use points (albeit BA rather than Virgin) a lot. To get availability:
1) book early - find out exactly when flights are released and book at midnight
2) book to places with a lot of flights (eg New York as you re doing)
3) book at times other people don t want to go - eg the Caribbean in hurricane season :-)
4) get to a high status in the frequent flyer program, which can open up a lot more availability. Top level BA fliers get to use points pretty much whenever they want.

The why:
1) for cheap premium class travel - for long haul economy I find it s rarely worth using points, as your numbers show, but 4 people first class to Singapore for about £3-4k is an absolute bargain.
2) for flexible tickets. Generally, points tickets can be refunded/changed at minimal cost. The cheap cash ticket you ve priced up is probably non flexible - use it or lose it. Flexible economy tickets would cost a lot more.
3) combined with another voucher - e.g. the BA Amex that gets you 2 people for one set of points (or one person at half points).

[ffc]

c32dave said:

Might get a better response to this in holidays and travel .

I use points (albeit BA rather than Virgin) a lot. To get availability:
1) book early - find out exactly when flights are released and book at midnight
2) book to places with a lot of flights (eg New York as you re doing)
3) book at times other people don t want to go - eg the Caribbean in hurricane season :-)
4) get to a high status in the frequent flyer program, which can open up a lot more availability. Top level BA fliers get to use points pretty much whenever they want.

The why:
1) for cheap premium class travel - for long haul economy I find it s rarely worth using points, as your numbers show, but 4 people first class to Singapore for about £3-4k is an absolute bargain.
2) for flexible tickets. Generally, points tickets can be refunded/changed at minimal cost. The cheap cash ticket you ve priced up is probably non flexible - use it or lose it. Flexible economy tickets would cost a lot more.
3) combined with another voucher - e.g. the BA Amex that gets you 2 people for one set of points (or one person at half points).

Good advice. Also there are sites that will alert you to reward flight availability like reward flight finder (https://rewardflightfinder.com) and seat spy (https://www.seatspy.com) . I find them easier to use than the BA site itself.

[barryrs]

I regularly use virgin points as I collect quite a few without going out of my way.

Typically I find the cheap seats best value with my most recent flights being circa 20k miles plus £285 for return flights to the US. That’s both east and west coast flights.

[Ascayman]

Virgin currently are offering bonus points of up to 70% when buying more

[Matt p]

£75 economy on BA. Heathrow to Grand Cayman. For that price I don’t care where I’m sitting.

Tend to get a couple of companion vouchers a year as the AMEX covers day to day spending and also travel when needed into the U.S. Only me travelling long haul home, so when a voucher lands I take a look as far in advance as possible and try to sneak in an extra trip back to the U.K.

The whole tier points thing is a little more difficult to accrue now.

[GT03ROB]

If you work on the basis they cost you nothing in the 1st place they really are useful. I use BA Avios & I have rather a lot of them 1m+plus companion vouchers. Over the years I've used them a lot. They generally work well in a couple of situations. Firstly if you are able to plan ahead, when the seats get 1st released. Secondly if you need something very last minute, as frequently the airlines dump spare inventory onto the reward availability. In this second scenario they are great value, as last minute seats can be expensive to buy.

[sideways sid]

Peeping Turtle said:

Im not a much of a frequent flier, I travel from NY to London once or twice a year to visit family, over the last few years i have accumulated just over 28,000 points at Virgin

Looking to book a flight home again and noticing the 'fly one way economy New York to London from ( ) 7000points), i thought, lets see how much i can save using my points

First i looked at costs without any membership benefits, total cost (one way 'main cabin (economy delight) the way back to the US with a premium seat

Net cost was USD1,268

I then booked the same flights (flight out was diff by 30mins due to not offering the one i had selected (assume thats because it was Virgin via Delta) but the price was the same as cash price earlier so should be100pct comparable
Return was exactly the same flight and seat

So for the outward flight they wanted 49k points plus cash (i think 350 i didnt take note) for airport TAX and then just 5k points for the premium return leg , plus TAX (around the same as the out flight.)

So this added up to CASH 732.63 PLUS 53.5k in points

I took a look at cost of buying another 26k points to make up the difference between my 28k to the 54k required, 26k is 550USD

So net net, if i use points, not only do i get a restricted flight options, but i also pay cash 1,282!

so i would lose all my points plus pay 14USD more for a restricted choice of flights!!!

Is this normal?

Its not a last minute flight (first week of Dec) and its 'green (ie cheapest)' dates on Kayak, so whats the point of points? pointless?

Edited by Peeping Turtle on Thursday 2nd October 16:19

You need to consider that the primary objective of Air Miles is to provide a reason for frequent travellers who are otherwise brand agnostic and indifferent to cost - because their employer is paying - to use a particular carrier on an ongoing basis.

Travelling across the Atlantic a few times a year with a company picking up the tab is good business for an airline, so they entice the traveller's custom with free leisure flights etc

A marketer would put this more eloquently, but a traveller taking an annual holiday in Economy isn't really what they're looking for.