Conspiracy mindset, specifically moon landings.
Discussion
The old 'Conspiracy theorists, are they a bit thick?' thread seems to have disappeared, so I am starting a new one.
I have a big fascination with the Apollo missions. I was born a couple of years after the first moon landing, and since I was a small kid, I was always completely transfixed by this staggering achievement. Later on, I researched the Apollo (and Gemini) programmes much more closely, not 'officially' but by reading books and listening to podcasts, etc.
Recently, I have been getting a lot of videos about these missions on my Facebook feed and I regularly watch them. What strikes me is that a quite staggering amount of the comments are people flatly denying they we have ever set foot on the moon. The 'evidence' for their beliefs is always the same old debunked nonsense, eg, Van Allen Belts, flags, footprints, lack of stars in photos, etc. I have made the mistake of asking some of them about what makes them believe what they do. They are all un/misinformed and many become aggressive quickly.
What's clear is that they consider themselves 'special' and those who 'believe' in the moon landings to be indoctrinated sheep. One of their most common retorts when corrected about something factual is 'you sound vacinated'.
I'm fascinated by what is going on in the conspiracy theorists' brains. It's easy to write all of them off as unintelligent, but, away from the internet, I have encountered a few that are otherwise actually quite bright. It's as if there is a literal short circuit in their brains, or some kind of damage.
I have a big fascination with the Apollo missions. I was born a couple of years after the first moon landing, and since I was a small kid, I was always completely transfixed by this staggering achievement. Later on, I researched the Apollo (and Gemini) programmes much more closely, not 'officially' but by reading books and listening to podcasts, etc.
Recently, I have been getting a lot of videos about these missions on my Facebook feed and I regularly watch them. What strikes me is that a quite staggering amount of the comments are people flatly denying they we have ever set foot on the moon. The 'evidence' for their beliefs is always the same old debunked nonsense, eg, Van Allen Belts, flags, footprints, lack of stars in photos, etc. I have made the mistake of asking some of them about what makes them believe what they do. They are all un/misinformed and many become aggressive quickly.
What's clear is that they consider themselves 'special' and those who 'believe' in the moon landings to be indoctrinated sheep. One of their most common retorts when corrected about something factual is 'you sound vacinated'.
I'm fascinated by what is going on in the conspiracy theorists' brains. It's easy to write all of them off as unintelligent, but, away from the internet, I have encountered a few that are otherwise actually quite bright. It's as if there is a literal short circuit in their brains, or some kind of damage.
We see it across the board now with vast ranging opinions and idea and the spread of the internet has only aided to that. It's not so much that either side is brainwashed but that they just believe they are right and cannot comprehend the alternate viewpoint.
Inevitably, any ideology or whatever it is may attract those with higher IQs who are able to construct valid points of debate from their own standpoint and the facts within it. Unfortunately there are plenty of people who are probably just trolling but finding the truth, specifically online, can be a chore.
Specifically for conspiracy theories, I get the appeal. I love a good one where they are well thought out or have some actual clout to them. Those unfortunately are few and far between and not the usual twaddle that's banded about all the time like flat earth or 9/11.
Inevitably, any ideology or whatever it is may attract those with higher IQs who are able to construct valid points of debate from their own standpoint and the facts within it. Unfortunately there are plenty of people who are probably just trolling but finding the truth, specifically online, can be a chore.
Specifically for conspiracy theories, I get the appeal. I love a good one where they are well thought out or have some actual clout to them. Those unfortunately are few and far between and not the usual twaddle that's banded about all the time like flat earth or 9/11.
Been debated quite a bit in the "Science" forum - although I'm not convinced the Science Forum is actually a good location for debates on this particular matter. Unless, of course, it becomes a discussion about the science of psychological disorders rather than a discussion of the technicalities of spaceflight.
Even when the Apollo programme was in full flow, therer were some nutters who believed the whole thing was being faked. However, 99% of the world assumed that's exactly what they were - nutters.
I think the whole "moon-hoax" issue began to gather traction over a long period of time fueled by increasing sceptiscism about government behaviour - particularly the US government.
One of the key drivers was the Watergate scandal (1972-74), which seriously undermined American confidence in how they were governed.
The failure of US intervention in Vietnam (1975) also undermined confidence in government.
The rise of big budget science fiction and fantasy movies in the 70s demonstrated that movie technolgy could, if the budget was big enough, replicate space and other planet conditions in a fairly realistic way which encouraged people of a conspiratorial mind set to assert that the Apollo landings were faked in a movie studio.
Although the 1968 film "2001: A Space Odyssey" is often quoted by moon hoax believers as being evidence that the landings could be faked, those of us who actually know what lunar surface conditions are like can spot the technical and scientific flaws in the way conditions on the moon are shown in that movie.
However, I think that the 1978 movie "Capricorn 1" has been far more influential in the history of £The Moon Hoax" as it is the story of a MARS landing being faked in a movie studio. The director, Peter Hyams, was not stupid enoug to have the plot based on a faked moon landing.
Interestingly, in 1984 Hyams went on the direct the sequeal to "2001", "2010 - Odyssey 2".
The next inspiration for "moon hoaxers" to latch on to was a Fox (vile orgainsation) TV documentary called "Did We land on the Moon" which was shown on TV around 2001.
And of course, since then the advent of the internet and social media has given a worldwide platform for every crazy who wants to peddle such nonsense.
Even when the Apollo programme was in full flow, therer were some nutters who believed the whole thing was being faked. However, 99% of the world assumed that's exactly what they were - nutters.
I think the whole "moon-hoax" issue began to gather traction over a long period of time fueled by increasing sceptiscism about government behaviour - particularly the US government.
One of the key drivers was the Watergate scandal (1972-74), which seriously undermined American confidence in how they were governed.
The failure of US intervention in Vietnam (1975) also undermined confidence in government.
The rise of big budget science fiction and fantasy movies in the 70s demonstrated that movie technolgy could, if the budget was big enough, replicate space and other planet conditions in a fairly realistic way which encouraged people of a conspiratorial mind set to assert that the Apollo landings were faked in a movie studio.
Although the 1968 film "2001: A Space Odyssey" is often quoted by moon hoax believers as being evidence that the landings could be faked, those of us who actually know what lunar surface conditions are like can spot the technical and scientific flaws in the way conditions on the moon are shown in that movie.
However, I think that the 1978 movie "Capricorn 1" has been far more influential in the history of £The Moon Hoax" as it is the story of a MARS landing being faked in a movie studio. The director, Peter Hyams, was not stupid enoug to have the plot based on a faked moon landing.
Interestingly, in 1984 Hyams went on the direct the sequeal to "2001", "2010 - Odyssey 2".
The next inspiration for "moon hoaxers" to latch on to was a Fox (vile orgainsation) TV documentary called "Did We land on the Moon" which was shown on TV around 2001.
And of course, since then the advent of the internet and social media has given a worldwide platform for every crazy who wants to peddle such nonsense.
I think in the same way as we are all atheists, we are all also in some way Conspiracy Theorists.
Whilst I believe in the moon landings, I believe there are question marks about the JFK assassination (the Oliver Stone documentary is interesting).
I have been labelled a conspiracy theorist and anti vaxxer after expressing my distrust in the government following my sisters admission to hospital once she received her first covid vaccination.
When I was in the military I was working in a country when David Cameron announced that there would be 'no boots on the ground' in said country.
Governments do lie. Once a lie is discovered that governments have told, trust is lost and conspiracy theorists are born.
To the OP, do you believe everything that the government tell you?
Whilst I believe in the moon landings, I believe there are question marks about the JFK assassination (the Oliver Stone documentary is interesting).
I have been labelled a conspiracy theorist and anti vaxxer after expressing my distrust in the government following my sisters admission to hospital once she received her first covid vaccination.
When I was in the military I was working in a country when David Cameron announced that there would be 'no boots on the ground' in said country.
Governments do lie. Once a lie is discovered that governments have told, trust is lost and conspiracy theorists are born.
To the OP, do you believe everything that the government tell you?
The most suggestible people in society have been unintentionally radicalised by Hollywood, IMHO. They spent decades glued to film and TV, watching endless TV dramas and films about government conspiracies, rogue CIA agents, FBI gone bad, cover ups about this that and the other, that their brains now, when they hear or see something in the real world which is presented to them as such a situation (such as ZOMG THE MOON LANDINGS WERE FAKED !!!111!!!11!), they think "wow, I am such an independent and original thinker that I have discovered some truly original insight and this must be a conspiracy!" Then they just cling to this cherished belief in their own amazing insight, double down on it, and it becomes the kneejerk reaction to everything. Everything becomes a conspiracy, reality has departed the building.
Edited by Skodillac on Friday 3rd October 10:09
I have recently had the same algorithm!
https://youtu.be/yDyJe1nmSOM?si=032D-rpsHWOLN5Sy
Quite like this, shows all the conspiracy theories and then debunks i think most of them.
Off the top of my head, the things i don't like is the quality of the video/real time communication vs more modern attempts, coupled to the fact nobody has ever been back.
Also the 'left behind camera man' and when someone falls over it looks like they are pulled back up by wires.
Personally i think it happened, and the footage is fake as it wasn't possible to take it and was needed for US Superiority.
Moon aside, take a look at ISS footage - something seriously weird going on there! Definitely on wires, glasses of water that forget there is no gravity and such. I take little notice but it is quite interesting/fun. At the very least there is a ton of green screen going on.
https://youtu.be/yDyJe1nmSOM?si=032D-rpsHWOLN5Sy
Quite like this, shows all the conspiracy theories and then debunks i think most of them.
Off the top of my head, the things i don't like is the quality of the video/real time communication vs more modern attempts, coupled to the fact nobody has ever been back.
Also the 'left behind camera man' and when someone falls over it looks like they are pulled back up by wires.
Personally i think it happened, and the footage is fake as it wasn't possible to take it and was needed for US Superiority.
Moon aside, take a look at ISS footage - something seriously weird going on there! Definitely on wires, glasses of water that forget there is no gravity and such. I take little notice but it is quite interesting/fun. At the very least there is a ton of green screen going on.
CouncilFerrari said:
To the OP, do you believe everything that the government tell you?
The issue, in my view, is that it's often not the government telling us stuffThe Moon landings, for example, are from the of the thousands and thousands of people who worked on it telling us it happened.....
Yet, conspiracy nutters will still tell us it didn't.
I think it comes from a deep rooted need to be contrary. Like it makes them special to be so. Add bloody-mindedness to that and it can be potent.
I've seen it on these pages with JFK. People still put stock in the magic bullet theory and other such nonsense that's been debunked....but they won't be told.
One aspect that the deniers don't appear to have latched onto, but which makes the moon landings all the more incredible, is the huge number of high technology projects, military, scientific and civil, that the Americans had running simultaneously. When one thinks about it, it makes the Americans' need for the European 'brain drain' all the more apparent.
The end of the Apollo moon missions plus the winding down of th Vietnam War must have played a significan part in the 1973-1975 recession.
The end of the Apollo moon missions plus the winding down of th Vietnam War must have played a significan part in the 1973-1975 recession.
The thing with conspiracies is that the more questions you ask, the crazier they become, and more and more people need to be complicit to explain them until faking it becomes such a monstrous undertaking that it would have just been easier to actually go to the moon.
My response to moon/flat earthers/etc is just smile, nod and disengage. You will never convince them, so there is no point in trying.
I did say on the other thread that there seems to be a solid correlation between cannabis use and conspiracy belief (or maybe that is a conspiracy theory itself). Certainly the few I know IRL fall into that category.
My response to moon/flat earthers/etc is just smile, nod and disengage. You will never convince them, so there is no point in trying.
I did say on the other thread that there seems to be a solid correlation between cannabis use and conspiracy belief (or maybe that is a conspiracy theory itself). Certainly the few I know IRL fall into that category.
Eric Mc said:
However, I think that the 1978 movie "Capricorn 1" has been far more influential in the history of “The Moon Hoax" as it is the story of a MARS landing being faked in a movie studio. The director, Peter Hyams, was not stupid enough to have the plot based on a faked moon landing.
Years ago I mentioned Capricorn One to a friend in an unrelated context. He hadn’t heard of it so I explained it was inspired by the theory of the Moon landing being a hoax. Unbeknown to me, said friend was on the path to becoming a general conspiracy theorist. He used Capricorn One as evidence of the Moon landing being faked.
He’s sane, intellectually very capable, has a good job, wife and kids, lots of friends. A normal person. But his life experience has lead him to a place where he is suspicious of anyone in authority. The Internet has lead that part of his character down a dark path.
Muzzer79 said:
I think it comes from a deep rooted need to be contrary.
Yes. Performative Contrarianism. A useful descriptor.See the post above: "To the OP, do you believe everything that the government tell you?" This then becomes "Do yo believe anything the government tell you?", and of course everything is framed as being in that class of information - here for example the poster is saying the government tell us that the moon landings are real, when no such thing has ever, ever, happened anywhere. The government has not "told" us this, it is simply observable, undeniable, historically attested and verified fact.
Edited by Skodillac on Friday 3rd October 10:52
To my mind there is no doubt that the moon landings were real, but they were such a remarkable feat that, combined with the general smoke and mirrors of the cold war, I think it's one of the more... understandable conspiracy theories to believe.
The conspiracy theories I really don't get are the ones where the evidence is rooted in science rather than history - the idea that the whole world's scientific community is somehow trying to mislead us. Things like the crazier anti-vaccine beliefs and refusal to believe in anthroporegnic climate change. But then I suppose despite being an engineer by trade, I'm probably still more of a scientist by nature.
Unfortunately the willingness to continuously challenge ones own beliefs is not something which comes easily to the human mind, which is why it's actually quite difficult (and extremely important) to teach people to rigourously follow the scientific method before letting them loose on any kind of research.
The conspiracy theories I really don't get are the ones where the evidence is rooted in science rather than history - the idea that the whole world's scientific community is somehow trying to mislead us. Things like the crazier anti-vaccine beliefs and refusal to believe in anthroporegnic climate change. But then I suppose despite being an engineer by trade, I'm probably still more of a scientist by nature.
Unfortunately the willingness to continuously challenge ones own beliefs is not something which comes easily to the human mind, which is why it's actually quite difficult (and extremely important) to teach people to rigourously follow the scientific method before letting them loose on any kind of research.
Edited by kambites on Friday 3rd October 10:59
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