P.911 - Porsche Stock Market talk
Discussion
So I would summarize Porsche IPO and current situation as follows:
- They timed their IPO correct, inflated the SP by boasting sales the year and months before.
- This raised enough cash to finance the whole EV investments they needed to become future proof.
- In the meantime the world is changed, the are struggling to adapt to current and mid term market needs etc.
- They presented a new plan but its weak and they left out that next year will be another difficult financial year for them.
- They timed their IPO correct, inflated the SP by boasting sales the year and months before.
- This raised enough cash to finance the whole EV investments they needed to become future proof.
- In the meantime the world is changed, the are struggling to adapt to current and mid term market needs etc.
- They presented a new plan but its weak and they left out that next year will be another difficult financial year for them.
Yep sadly I feel further to fall.
Unlike Ferrari, Porsche is a comparatively large scale producer brand driven by the aspirational and global middle class. They are the key buyers of Macans, Cayennes that drive the Porsche P&L and have been core to its success. In Europe, these buyers are being squeezed by higher car finance rates (compared with 2020), higher car prices (a well specced VW minibus Transporter costs the thick end of £60k) and cost inflation.
Sadly, they drank the Kooliad (may of us did) and bet too hard on EV and China. Taycan is an amazing piece of engineering but has killed any normal buyers with depreciation. BMW seem to have designed flexible platforms allowing them to pivot according to customer demand, Porsche didn't and is now re-engineering for this more flexible future. I doubt (sadly) the Cayman/Boxster will re-appear, a 5 year wait tends to mean that the market disappears or someone else fills the gap/need.
It's not all doom though. The brand is still strong and - my view - the products are excellent and support this. Its core engineering and design is excellent. The UK distribution needs to pivot away from its past "Rolex" behaviours (a total aside I was in my local Rolex AD yesterday and could not believe the bulls
t I heard there "its all about building a track record here and then we will get you on the list for a yachtmaster" "But I own 5 Rolexes already but bought them abroad before I moved here last year" "Yeah but that doesn't count you have to start again with a Datejust here or ask your old dealer".....
Any way returns will be low as they re-engineer their chassis platforms. I would not bet against them achieving this but it will be some time before we see the results and the ability of governments to interfere in motor companies that essentially have to make very very large bets remains high.
Unlike Ferrari, Porsche is a comparatively large scale producer brand driven by the aspirational and global middle class. They are the key buyers of Macans, Cayennes that drive the Porsche P&L and have been core to its success. In Europe, these buyers are being squeezed by higher car finance rates (compared with 2020), higher car prices (a well specced VW minibus Transporter costs the thick end of £60k) and cost inflation.
Sadly, they drank the Kooliad (may of us did) and bet too hard on EV and China. Taycan is an amazing piece of engineering but has killed any normal buyers with depreciation. BMW seem to have designed flexible platforms allowing them to pivot according to customer demand, Porsche didn't and is now re-engineering for this more flexible future. I doubt (sadly) the Cayman/Boxster will re-appear, a 5 year wait tends to mean that the market disappears or someone else fills the gap/need.
It's not all doom though. The brand is still strong and - my view - the products are excellent and support this. Its core engineering and design is excellent. The UK distribution needs to pivot away from its past "Rolex" behaviours (a total aside I was in my local Rolex AD yesterday and could not believe the bulls
t I heard there "its all about building a track record here and then we will get you on the list for a yachtmaster" "But I own 5 Rolexes already but bought them abroad before I moved here last year" "Yeah but that doesn't count you have to start again with a Datejust here or ask your old dealer".....Any way returns will be low as they re-engineer their chassis platforms. I would not bet against them achieving this but it will be some time before we see the results and the ability of governments to interfere in motor companies that essentially have to make very very large bets remains high.
Snowy999 said:
Yep sadly I feel further to fall.
Unlike Ferrari, Porsche is a comparatively large scale producer brand driven by the aspirational and global middle class. They are the key buyers of Macans, Cayennes that drive the Porsche P&L and have been core to its success. In Europe, these buyers are being squeezed by higher car finance rates (compared with 2020), higher car prices (a well specced VW minibus Transporter costs the thick end of £60k) and cost inflation.
Sadly, they drank the Kooliad (may of us did) and bet too hard on EV and China. Taycan is an amazing piece of engineering but has killed any normal buyers with depreciation. BMW seem to have designed flexible platforms allowing them to pivot according to customer demand, Porsche didn't and is now re-engineering for this more flexible future. I doubt (sadly) the Cayman/Boxster will re-appear, a 5 year wait tends to mean that the market disappears or someone else fills the gap/need.
It's not all doom though. The brand is still strong and - my view - the products are excellent and support this. Its core engineering and design is excellent. The UK distribution needs to pivot away from its past "Rolex" behaviours (a total aside I was in my local Rolex AD yesterday and could not believe the bullst I heard there "its all about building a track record here and then we will get you on the list for a yachtmaster" "But I own 5 Rolexes already but bought them abroad before I moved here last year" "Yeah but that doesn't count you have to start again with a Datejust here or ask your old dealer".....
Any way returns will be low as they re-engineer their chassis platforms. I would not bet against them achieving this but it will be some time before we see the results and the ability of governments to interfere in motor companies that essentially have to make very very large bets remains high.
Thank you for this, a well described picture of where Porsche stands in the current world. Porsche has moved away from its 911 roots by expanding into the Cayenne/ Macan world and added the Taycan, and the Panamera, a much underrated car. These will be the core earners for Porsche going forward.
The 911 is fast becoming a sub brand within Porsche and needs to be both protected and developed, it is the DNA of the marque and its price point is indicating just that.
As for the Boxster/ Cayman, these must live on, albeit in a mix of ev/ petrol models.. It has long been an entry point for many into the world of Porsche/ 911 and has a large following and should sit below the 911 sub brand.
Porsche has gone through difficult periods before and will recover. this will again, in due course, be reflected in the share price
Unlike Ferrari, Porsche is a comparatively large scale producer brand driven by the aspirational and global middle class. They are the key buyers of Macans, Cayennes that drive the Porsche P&L and have been core to its success. In Europe, these buyers are being squeezed by higher car finance rates (compared with 2020), higher car prices (a well specced VW minibus Transporter costs the thick end of £60k) and cost inflation.
Sadly, they drank the Kooliad (may of us did) and bet too hard on EV and China. Taycan is an amazing piece of engineering but has killed any normal buyers with depreciation. BMW seem to have designed flexible platforms allowing them to pivot according to customer demand, Porsche didn't and is now re-engineering for this more flexible future. I doubt (sadly) the Cayman/Boxster will re-appear, a 5 year wait tends to mean that the market disappears or someone else fills the gap/need.
It's not all doom though. The brand is still strong and - my view - the products are excellent and support this. Its core engineering and design is excellent. The UK distribution needs to pivot away from its past "Rolex" behaviours (a total aside I was in my local Rolex AD yesterday and could not believe the bulls
t I heard there "its all about building a track record here and then we will get you on the list for a yachtmaster" "But I own 5 Rolexes already but bought them abroad before I moved here last year" "Yeah but that doesn't count you have to start again with a Datejust here or ask your old dealer".....Any way returns will be low as they re-engineer their chassis platforms. I would not bet against them achieving this but it will be some time before we see the results and the ability of governments to interfere in motor companies that essentially have to make very very large bets remains high.
Thank you for this, a well described picture of where Porsche stands in the current world. Porsche has moved away from its 911 roots by expanding into the Cayenne/ Macan world and added the Taycan, and the Panamera, a much underrated car. These will be the core earners for Porsche going forward.
The 911 is fast becoming a sub brand within Porsche and needs to be both protected and developed, it is the DNA of the marque and its price point is indicating just that.
As for the Boxster/ Cayman, these must live on, albeit in a mix of ev/ petrol models.. It has long been an entry point for many into the world of Porsche/ 911 and has a large following and should sit below the 911 sub brand.
Porsche has gone through difficult periods before and will recover. this will again, in due course, be reflected in the share price
Snowy999 said:
Yep sadly I feel further to fall.
Unlike Ferrari, Porsche is a comparatively large scale producer brand driven by the aspirational and global middle class. They are the key buyers of Macans, Cayennes that drive the Porsche P&L and have been core to its success. In Europe, these buyers are being squeezed by higher car finance rates (compared with 2020), higher car prices (a well specced VW minibus Transporter costs the thick end of £60k) and cost inflation.
Sadly, they drank the Kooliad (may of us did) and bet too hard on EV and China. Taycan is an amazing piece of engineering but has killed any normal buyers with depreciation. BMW seem to have designed flexible platforms allowing them to pivot according to customer demand, Porsche didn't and is now re-engineering for this more flexible future. I doubt (sadly) the Cayman/Boxster will re-appear, a 5 year wait tends to mean that the market disappears or someone else fills the gap/need.
It's not all doom though. The brand is still strong and - my view - the products are excellent and support this. Its core engineering and design is excellent. The UK distribution needs to pivot away from its past "Rolex" behaviours (a total aside I was in my local Rolex AD yesterday and could not believe the bullst I heard there "its all about building a track record here and then we will get you on the list for a yachtmaster" "But I own 5 Rolexes already but bought them abroad before I moved here last year" "Yeah but that doesn't count you have to start again with a Datejust here or ask your old dealer".....
Any way returns will be low as they re-engineer their chassis platforms. I would not bet against them achieving this but it will be some time before we see the results and the ability of governments to interfere in motor companies that essentially have to make very very large bets remains high.
Soon be able to buy a fake 911 or cayman Unlike Ferrari, Porsche is a comparatively large scale producer brand driven by the aspirational and global middle class. They are the key buyers of Macans, Cayennes that drive the Porsche P&L and have been core to its success. In Europe, these buyers are being squeezed by higher car finance rates (compared with 2020), higher car prices (a well specced VW minibus Transporter costs the thick end of £60k) and cost inflation.
Sadly, they drank the Kooliad (may of us did) and bet too hard on EV and China. Taycan is an amazing piece of engineering but has killed any normal buyers with depreciation. BMW seem to have designed flexible platforms allowing them to pivot according to customer demand, Porsche didn't and is now re-engineering for this more flexible future. I doubt (sadly) the Cayman/Boxster will re-appear, a 5 year wait tends to mean that the market disappears or someone else fills the gap/need.
It's not all doom though. The brand is still strong and - my view - the products are excellent and support this. Its core engineering and design is excellent. The UK distribution needs to pivot away from its past "Rolex" behaviours (a total aside I was in my local Rolex AD yesterday and could not believe the bulls
t I heard there "its all about building a track record here and then we will get you on the list for a yachtmaster" "But I own 5 Rolexes already but bought them abroad before I moved here last year" "Yeah but that doesn't count you have to start again with a Datejust here or ask your old dealer".....Any way returns will be low as they re-engineer their chassis platforms. I would not bet against them achieving this but it will be some time before we see the results and the ability of governments to interfere in motor companies that essentially have to make very very large bets remains high.
Snowy999 said:
Yep sadly I feel further to fall.
Unlike Ferrari, Porsche is a comparatively large scale producer brand driven by the aspirational and global middle class. They are the key buyers of Macans, Cayennes that drive the Porsche P&L and have been core to its success. In Europe, these buyers are being squeezed by higher car finance rates (compared with 2020), higher car prices (a well specced VW minibus Transporter costs the thick end of £60k) and cost inflation.
Sadly, they drank the Kooliad (may of us did) and bet too hard on EV and China. Taycan is an amazing piece of engineering but has killed any normal buyers with depreciation. BMW seem to have designed flexible platforms allowing them to pivot according to customer demand, Porsche didn't and is now re-engineering for this more flexible future. I doubt (sadly) the Cayman/Boxster will re-appear, a 5 year wait tends to mean that the market disappears or someone else fills the gap/need.
It's not all doom though. The brand is still strong and - my view - the products are excellent and support this. Its core engineering and design is excellent. The UK distribution needs to pivot away from its past "Rolex" behaviours (a total aside I was in my local Rolex AD yesterday and could not believe the bullst I heard there "its all about building a track record here and then we will get you on the list for a yachtmaster" "But I own 5 Rolexes already but bought them abroad before I moved here last year" "Yeah but that doesn't count you have to start again with a Datejust here or ask your old dealer".....
Any way returns will be low as they re-engineer their chassis platforms. I would not bet against them achieving this but it will be some time before we see the results and the ability of governments to interfere in motor companies that essentially have to make very very large bets remains high.
Well at least you got offered a DateJust, I went into Mappin Webb and tried to buy a DateJust 41 for me and the DateJust 36 for other half, both with our Daytonas on our arm and was told the same build a relationship and probably would see one of the watches within 2 years. We just laughed out loud and left..Unlike Ferrari, Porsche is a comparatively large scale producer brand driven by the aspirational and global middle class. They are the key buyers of Macans, Cayennes that drive the Porsche P&L and have been core to its success. In Europe, these buyers are being squeezed by higher car finance rates (compared with 2020), higher car prices (a well specced VW minibus Transporter costs the thick end of £60k) and cost inflation.
Sadly, they drank the Kooliad (may of us did) and bet too hard on EV and China. Taycan is an amazing piece of engineering but has killed any normal buyers with depreciation. BMW seem to have designed flexible platforms allowing them to pivot according to customer demand, Porsche didn't and is now re-engineering for this more flexible future. I doubt (sadly) the Cayman/Boxster will re-appear, a 5 year wait tends to mean that the market disappears or someone else fills the gap/need.
It's not all doom though. The brand is still strong and - my view - the products are excellent and support this. Its core engineering and design is excellent. The UK distribution needs to pivot away from its past "Rolex" behaviours (a total aside I was in my local Rolex AD yesterday and could not believe the bulls
t I heard there "its all about building a track record here and then we will get you on the list for a yachtmaster" "But I own 5 Rolexes already but bought them abroad before I moved here last year" "Yeah but that doesn't count you have to start again with a Datejust here or ask your old dealer".....Any way returns will be low as they re-engineer their chassis platforms. I would not bet against them achieving this but it will be some time before we see the results and the ability of governments to interfere in motor companies that essentially have to make very very large bets remains high.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff