Coming to bridge near you!
Discussion
An officer with a hand held camera, motorcycle parked nearby. Seemingly more frequent lately. This was when I was driving over a bridge on the back roads that now crosses a new, by-pass. It's a 2+1 single carriageway, which many people mistake as a dual carriageway with regards speed limits. I have read in local papers a few people being caught like that. Nothing new, just more frequent lately. I remember a few being caught on the M6 Toll Road being caught this way.
I got caught like this on a summer evening 20yrs ago. Cop, not wearing high viz, was offset to the left on a bridge, with trees behind him and the sun behind those - so he was very difficult to spot until too close. I was bowling along at 85 (70 limit).
I was always do 70ish on that road now, and sit there while pretty well everyone else zooms past while I tutt at them.
I was always do 70ish on that road now, and sit there while pretty well everyone else zooms past while I tutt at them.
ARH said:
The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.
I can only assume this is why the courses exist
I can only assume this is why the courses exist
It doesn't have a physical barrier between oncoming lanes so it's not a dual carriageway.
Nothingtoseehere said:
ARH said:
The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.
I can only assume this is why the courses exist
I can only assume this is why the courses exist
It doesn't have a physical barrier between oncoming lanes so it's not a dual carriageway.
Dual - two
Carriageway - road
If they aren't fully physically separated by a minimum raised central reservation/barrier then it is not one.
E-bmw said:
Nothingtoseehere said:
ARH said:
The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.
I can only assume this is why the courses exist
I can only assume this is why the courses exist
It doesn't have a physical barrier between oncoming lanes so it's not a dual carriageway.
Dual - two
Carriageway - road
If they aren't fully physically separated by a minimum raised central reservation/barrier then it is not one.
Thus a strip of grass separating two carriageways could qualify. I would suggest such situations are increasingly rare.
Note a strip of tarmac in the centre of the road liberally covered with paint makings does not constitute other land nor a permanent construction.
toobusy said:
Simpo Two said:
Turkey shoot. Ker-ching. That's why he was there.
The A14 (a dual carriageway) has this all the time.
Yup, especially near the M6 end, the curve in the road hides them.The A14 (a dual carriageway) has this all the time.
Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 7th October 09:48
FiF said:
E-bmw said:
Nothingtoseehere said:
ARH said:
The "is it a duel carriageway" question will be fully covered in SAC you will end up doing if caught by the camera operator hiding in plain sight on the bridge.
I can only assume this is why the courses exist
I can only assume this is why the courses exist
It doesn't have a physical barrier between oncoming lanes so it's not a dual carriageway.
Dual - two
Carriageway - road
If they aren't fully physically separated by a minimum raised central reservation/barrier then it is not one.
Thus a strip of grass separating two carriageways could qualify. I would suggest such situations are increasingly rare.
Note a strip of tarmac in the centre of the road liberally covered with paint makings does not constitute other land nor a permanent construction.
FiF said:
Technically the central reservation is defined as a permanent construction or other land.
Thus a strip of grass separating two carriageways could qualify. I would suggest such situations are increasingly rare.
Note a strip of tarmac in the centre of the road liberally covered with paint makings does not constitute other land nor a permanent construction.
It's interesting that the definition of dual carriageway is actually quite obscure as to what qualifies as "other land", a pretty tricky phrase to actually define the meaning of.Thus a strip of grass separating two carriageways could qualify. I would suggest such situations are increasingly rare.
Note a strip of tarmac in the centre of the road liberally covered with paint makings does not constitute other land nor a permanent construction.
Looking on the internet, the use of the phrase "central reservation" is used not "other land", coming from RTA 1984...
“dual-carriageway road” means a road part of which consists of a central reservation to separate a carriageway to be used by vehicles proceeding in one direction from a carriageway to be used by vehicles proceeding in the opposite direction;
What is and what is not a central reservation is not defined as far as I can see.
I've always used the definition "can a ball roll from one carriageway to another?".
Continuous tarmac but with a barrier (eg armco, concrete or similar).......................................................YES
Same continuous tarmac with loads of paint in the middle (no matter how wide the centre bit is)............NO
Tarmac but with some limp raised kerb area in the middle, no actual barrier............................................YES
2 bits of tarmac with a grass strip down the middle...................................................................................DEPENDS IF THE GRASS STRIP WOULD STOP A BALL, HOW BIG THE BALL IS, ETC
Of course its not a legal definition, but its a good ready reckoner. Signage may help too, but I don't believe it can legally define if its single or dual.
ETA I don't believe a grass strip alone, would count: there are many roads with grass in the middle and they are certainly not dual carriageways:
Continuous tarmac but with a barrier (eg armco, concrete or similar).......................................................YES
Same continuous tarmac with loads of paint in the middle (no matter how wide the centre bit is)............NO
Tarmac but with some limp raised kerb area in the middle, no actual barrier............................................YES
2 bits of tarmac with a grass strip down the middle...................................................................................DEPENDS IF THE GRASS STRIP WOULD STOP A BALL, HOW BIG THE BALL IS, ETC
Of course its not a legal definition, but its a good ready reckoner. Signage may help too, but I don't believe it can legally define if its single or dual.
ETA I don't believe a grass strip alone, would count: there are many roads with grass in the middle and they are certainly not dual carriageways:
Edited by paul_c123 on Tuesday 7th October 13:36
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