Laying new water pipe
Discussion
Some land we own had a deed requirement it must provide water to 3 other fields that used to be part of the same holding. The existing water pipe is leaking in more than 1 place, so want to replace a run of 650m of pipe. Issue we have is the pipe will need to go under a field that is not part of the agreement. How far can you mole bore in a water pipe? (think the existing is 1" bore, only feeding troughs). Doing it all by mole ploughing or trenching is not really an option, and there are no handy gates in the run to get through, it has to go under 5 hedge rows.
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We are first field, there are 6 further fields in a row (for simplicity) field #5 of the seven is not part of the water supply agreement agreement, but the existing pipe runs under the field. As said, they were all part of the same farm before being sold off. I am unsure if there is any agreement in place for the owners of #5 to allow us access to replace the pipe.
Edited by scrw. on Wednesday 8th October 16:54
First thing I would be doing is speaking to the owner of field five to see if they would let you run said pipe.
Do they want water? Might be a trading option to Tee off a tap for them in exchange for access and or wayleave.
I can see it for supply to the edge of your field, for field #2 (and #3) but seems odd to have to supply to #6 and #7 if #5 is not part of it.
Edit; as per OutInTheShed
Do they want water? Might be a trading option to Tee off a tap for them in exchange for access and or wayleave.
I can see it for supply to the edge of your field, for field #2 (and #3) but seems odd to have to supply to #6 and #7 if #5 is not part of it.
Edit; as per OutInTheShed
Edited by dhutch on Wednesday 8th October 17:08
agreement is 30-odd years old when the plot was split & sold off, will dig it out, are these agreements hard to end? I assume it needs all parties to agree? I know there is a shared responsibility for cost maintenance, and I am hoping the cost to replace the pipe will assist in ending the agreement. Just to add into the mix between field #6 and #7 is a main A road that needs to be traversed. Owner of #7 has had a quote to get water directly for himself and is moaning about a £3k cost to do this.
Edited by scrw. on Wednesday 8th October 17:12
I think a farmer would just mole across the fields and 'JCB' through the hedges?
They'd probably mostly re-use the old pipe if it's plastic?
If there's a trough at each hedge, it's not that hard to see where the pipe crosses hedges.
Under the A road, it might be in a duct or you might be able to line it if that bit under the road leaks.
The bit under the road is likely fine, having been protected by a good layer of road!
I'd be looking at breaking it into sections and testing each section.
Farmers do this kind of thing all the time, you need a farming person with the right Tonka Toys and a couple of cousins for grunt work.
They'd probably mostly re-use the old pipe if it's plastic?
If there's a trough at each hedge, it's not that hard to see where the pipe crosses hedges.
Under the A road, it might be in a duct or you might be able to line it if that bit under the road leaks.
The bit under the road is likely fine, having been protected by a good layer of road!
I'd be looking at breaking it into sections and testing each section.
Farmers do this kind of thing all the time, you need a farming person with the right Tonka Toys and a couple of cousins for grunt work.
Further to above, as the person who's duty it is to supply the water, do you then become a small scale 'utility provider' of sorts and hence need to meet the various (& onerous) water quality requirements etc? I guess that it 'shouldn't' be an issue as it is towns mains supply, but equally if there was a problem and nasties enter the main in your 'remit', you become liable for it's onward transmission? Equally, if the supplied properties have an issue, you may then have a duty of care to prevent it backflowing into the network? (Back flow prevention valving etc).
Without the full details, this does sound potentially messy. Supply boundaries, expectations and responsibilities need establishing to ensure you don't end up with issues later down the line. As mentioned above, as this is quite an undertaking, you should obtain some legal advice. You might even find that the local water supplier has a section on their website on this already to help advise you.
Without the full details, this does sound potentially messy. Supply boundaries, expectations and responsibilities need establishing to ensure you don't end up with issues later down the line. As mentioned above, as this is quite an undertaking, you should obtain some legal advice. You might even find that the local water supplier has a section on their website on this already to help advise you.
I had a quote for moling a few 10s of metres, it was £thousands. I don't think it's reasonable/possible to mole under a field, you will need to mole-plough it.
Perhaps you can go around it, or just on the edges. With bigger pipe, distance won't matter so much. You don't really want to be running 25mm MDPE for 650m.
But is the pipe currently under someone's field without any "permission"? That's an odd situation to be in.
Perhaps you can go around it, or just on the edges. With bigger pipe, distance won't matter so much. You don't really want to be running 25mm MDPE for 650m.
But is the pipe currently under someone's field without any "permission"? That's an odd situation to be in.
scrw. said:
agreement is 30-odd years old when the plot was split & sold off, will dig it out, are these agreements hard to end? I assume it needs all parties to agree? I know there is a shared responsibility for cost maintenance, and I am hoping the cost to replace the pipe will assist in ending the agreement. Just to add into the mix between field #6 and #7 is a main A road that needs to be traversed. Owner of #7 has had a quote to get water directly for himself and is moaning about a £3k cost to do this.
It depends what the agreement says I had one where the former owner insisted on a supply through his pipe over my land. The pipe ran in a slightly different place, over land under different ownership and to which there were no rights. Net result, he has a break in his pipe and no way to resolve it. A-road is going to be fun if you want to do it properly. No farmer has ever threaded one under through a drain/culvert.
ETA: if the pipe has been there for ages you might get away with a prescriptive easement, but be ready for legal fees of they lawyer up.
Edited by LooneyTunes on Wednesday 8th October 19:19
biggiles said:
I had a quote for moling a few 10s of metres, it was £thousands. I don't think it's reasonable/possible to mole under a field, you will need to mole-plough it.
Perhaps you can go around it, or just on the edges. With bigger pipe, distance won't matter so much. You don't really want to be running 25mm MDPE for 650m.
But is the pipe currently under someone's field without any "permission"? That's an odd situation to be in.
I suspect the verb 'moling' sometimes means 'mole ploughing' in ruralspeak?Perhaps you can go around it, or just on the edges. With bigger pipe, distance won't matter so much. You don't really want to be running 25mm MDPE for 650m.
But is the pipe currently under someone's field without any "permission"? That's an odd situation to be in.
Means other things in the Urban Dictionary.
mole plough dragging pipe is easiest however 5 hedges to get through. Hydro moleing I had done in my front garden to get new main from pavement to house, was only 20m done in 3 runs with holes dug at the turns, that cost £2.5k.
As said, I will dig out the agreement and wave it at a solicitor/land agent type and get their thoughts on it, I really would like the agreement gone, or reduced to the first 2 fields as they are easy.
As said, I will dig out the agreement and wave it at a solicitor/land agent type and get their thoughts on it, I really would like the agreement gone, or reduced to the first 2 fields as they are easy.
I have gone through and closed off the taps, narrowed the leaks to bit under road (sods law) and between fields 2 & 3 using the meter readings along the pipe. All pipe is 1" and the old black stuff, not modern blue. I am metered at the mains in, but I have the whole supply turned off at the minute with everyones agreement. It has raised its head as the bloke in field 7 now wants water back on. Convo today went along the lines of £3k is too much for him to connect his field directly to the mains and he knows how to drive a digger so it won't cost much to replace the pipework! LOL
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