Charging developments

[Mikehig]

Interesting article from Autocar about Mercedes' research into various charging methods:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-me...

They are also developing an integrated system to enable V2G etc..

[ashenfie]

It the same hype that is going around by all the ev manufacturers. What they are not talking about is the fact that gsp’s are typically up to 400kv, these are the points that connect into the national grid. So how is a 1000kv devices going to work?
Making public charging points profitable is a big challenge not being addressed either.

[Mikehig]

ashenfie said:

It the same hype that is going around by all the ev manufacturers. What they are not talking about is the fact that gsp s are typically up to 400kv, these are the points that connect into the national grid. So how is a 1000kv devices going to work?
Making public charging points profitable is a big challenge not being addressed either.

Perhaps a bit of confusion between kV and kW? The article is talking about megawatt charging: 1000 kW.
Looking at the pic of the megawatt charging cable, using it must be like wrestling a python!

Wrt public chargers, I read somewhere that the cost of the grid connection has gone up astronomically recently, hitting profitability - or extending the time before making a profit, according to the charging companies.
Another wrinkle is the capacity of the feed to the site: how many megawatt chargers could be supported?

[ashenfie]

Mikehig said:

ashenfie said:

It the same hype that is going around by all the ev manufacturers. What they are not talking about is the fact that gsp s are typically up to 400kv, these are the points that connect into the national grid. So how is a 1000kv devices going to work?
Making public charging points profitable is a big challenge not being addressed either.

Perhaps a bit of confusion between kV and kW? The article is talking about megawatt charging: 1000 kW.
Looking at the pic of the megawatt charging cable, using it must be like wrestling a python!

Wrt public chargers, I read somewhere that the cost of the grid connection has gone up astronomically recently, hitting profitability - or extending the time before making a profit, according to the charging companies.
Another wrinkle is the capacity of the feed to the site: how many megawatt chargers could be supported?

Arrr, badly explained on my part, but the way I understand it (maybe wrong) for a 1000 kW charger demo done by BYD. BYD's used 1000 kW charger which was paired with a 1000V system and a 1000A current to deliver the 1 megawatt of power. Hence the mixing of kw and kv

Yeah connect costs are huge if your connecting fast EV charger as National grid live in the past and are selling you connection for commercial solutions like factories and industrial parks.

[PetrolHeadInRecovery]

Mikehig said:

ashenfie said:

It the same hype that is going around by all the ev manufacturers. What they are not talking about is the fact that gsp s are typically up to 400kv, these are the points that connect into the national grid. So how is a 1000kv devices going to work?
Making public charging points profitable is a big challenge not being addressed either.

Perhaps a bit of confusion between kV and kW? The article is talking about megawatt charging: 1000 kW.
Looking at the pic of the megawatt charging cable, using it must be like wrestling a python!

Wrt public chargers, I read somewhere that the cost of the grid connection has gone up astronomically recently, hitting profitability - or extending the time before making a profit, according to the charging companies.
Another wrinkle is the capacity of the feed to the site: how many megawatt chargers could be supported?

Was the grid connection price an issue in the UK or Europe-wide? Fastned's basic business starts to be profitable (positive EBITDA in some of the countries), and its investor relations material talks about higher charging speeds as a way to improve profitability.

[Tycho]

Interesting considering that they didn't put a DC to DC converter in the new CLA so it can't use any fast chargers that aren't 800v.

Would cheaper battery storage be viable for these charging sites so they can have a constant pull from the network charging on site batteries and then use these for "bursty" charging of vehicles that are capable of it?

[ashenfie]

PetrolHeadInRecovery said:

Mikehig said:

ashenfie said:

It the same hype that is going around by all the ev manufacturers. What they are not talking about is the fact that gsp s are typically up to 400kv, these are the points that connect into the national grid. So how is a 1000kv devices going to work?
Making public charging points profitable is a big challenge not being addressed either.

Perhaps a bit of confusion between kV and kW? The article is talking about megawatt charging: 1000 kW.
Looking at the pic of the megawatt charging cable, using it must be like wrestling a python!

Wrt public chargers, I read somewhere that the cost of the grid connection has gone up astronomically recently, hitting profitability - or extending the time before making a profit, according to the charging companies.
Another wrinkle is the capacity of the feed to the site: how many megawatt chargers could be supported?

Was the grid connection price an issue in the UK or Europe-wide? Fastned's basic business starts to be profitable (positive EBITDA in some of the countries), and its investor relations material talks about higher charging speeds as a way to improve profitability.

No idea to be honest, its going to be an issue for everyone except the Norway etc I guess. I don t see ev charging stations as profitable stand alone business, may be wrong

Edited by ashenfie on Tuesday 14th October 08:45

[alishutc]

Cars spend most of their time sat around doing nothing.

The solution to charging isn't ever more ridiculous speeds and ensuing complexity, it's ensuring that affordable basic charging is available in all the places people regularly leave their cars

[PBCD]

alishutc said:

The solution to charging isn't ever more ridiculous speeds and ensuing complexity, it's ensuring that affordable basic charging is available in all the places people regularly leave their cars

...with contactless payment - no mandatory apps, QR codes, etc!

I know that almost all rapids accept contactless these days, but 'destination' chargers
seem to be stuck in the past when it comes to payment opions.

[CSR Performance]

PBCD said:

alishutc said:

The solution to charging isn't ever more ridiculous speeds and ensuing complexity, it's ensuring that affordable basic charging is available in all the places people regularly leave their cars

...with contactless payment - no mandatory apps, QR codes, etc!

I know that almost all rapids accept contactless these days, but 'destination' chargers
seem to be stuck in the past when it comes to payment opions.

100% this. I've been saying this since I got my first PHEV. In 2016!

It absolutely staggers me we are still having the same discussions nearly a decade later. It literally needs to be legislated.

[PetrolHeadInRecovery]

CSR Performance said:

PBCD said:

alishutc said:

The solution to charging isn't ever more ridiculous speeds and ensuing complexity, it's ensuring that affordable basic charging is available in all the places people regularly leave their cars

...with contactless payment - no mandatory apps, QR codes, etc!

I know that almost all rapids accept contactless these days, but 'destination' chargers
seem to be stuck in the past when it comes to payment opions.

100% this. I've been saying this since I got my first PHEV. In 2016!

It absolutely staggers me we are still having the same discussions nearly a decade later. It literally needs to be legislated.

In the EU, the directive mandated contactless payment for all 50+ KW chargers from April 2024, old ones to be retrofitted by January 2027 (quick Google, didn't check the AFIR directive again). But considering the low revenue potential of an AC charger, mandating a contactless payment would be a strong incentive to take publicly available ones offline.

As for the viability of HPC charging as a (stand-alone) business model, I'd recommend checking out the Fastned investor relations pack: https://www.fastnedcharging.com/en/for-business/in...

Currently, they're operating with a massive margin. Joining the Spark alliance means they expect higher charging speeds, and increasing use will offset lower margins.

Local storage for charging stations is already happening (I think), and large storage batteries might become more popular in places where industrial electricity prices vary a lot. Bus flash charging stations (600kW bursts, lithium-titanite batteries rated for 10,000 cycles) are conceptually similar.

[Murph7355]

alishutc said:

Cars spend most of their time sat around doing nothing.

The solution to charging isn't ever more ridiculous speeds and ensuing complexity, it's ensuring that affordable basic charging is available in all the places people regularly leave their cars

This.

Most cars and users of them do not need faster charging speeds than are already available. The biggest issue is psychological.

Commercial transport may be different, but that has a long way to go before electric power trains are sensible.

[ashenfie]

I don't see anything exciting in the number to suspect Fastned is a great investment?

[PetrolHeadInRecovery]

ashenfie said:

I don't see anything exciting in the number to suspect Fastned is a great investment?

I didn't claim it would be a great investment; I just pointed out that there were credible projections indicating it could be profitable as a stand-alone business.

I don't think any charging network company will get the crypto bro style investors frothing at the mouth the same way Theranos or FTX did.