Exige avoidance thread
Discussion
I have been on lookout for an Exige and come to learn a scary amount of V6 cars have been over revved and moved on.
As John Seal will tell you this can be an expensive issue that appears fine until the car is pushed on next.
With that in mind wanted to add the first contribution.
The orange 410 Exige currently at at specialist car dealer in the NE with lashings of carbon and then 430 clam vents. That car has been over revved by a considerable margin ~1.5k over and in the not too distance past mileage wise
I alerted the dealer yesterday when I did my own due diligence that seemed to be beyond them and they seemingly werent aware. Took me all of 5 mins to find out so their hand pick sourcing process is questionable.
If considering it would strongly suggest you ask for an engine check (lobes etc) before you buy it just to be safe.
The salesman when I alerted did tell me the over rev was linked to a clutching issue so with that you may want also to verify if the car does have a clutch issue (clutch being a every expensive engine out job).
As John Seal will tell you this can be an expensive issue that appears fine until the car is pushed on next.
With that in mind wanted to add the first contribution.
The orange 410 Exige currently at at specialist car dealer in the NE with lashings of carbon and then 430 clam vents. That car has been over revved by a considerable margin ~1.5k over and in the not too distance past mileage wise
I alerted the dealer yesterday when I did my own due diligence that seemed to be beyond them and they seemingly werent aware. Took me all of 5 mins to find out so their hand pick sourcing process is questionable.
If considering it would strongly suggest you ask for an engine check (lobes etc) before you buy it just to be safe.
The salesman when I alerted did tell me the over rev was linked to a clutching issue so with that you may want also to verify if the car does have a clutch issue (clutch being a every expensive engine out job).
Edited by P155flaps on Sunday 12th October 22:55
I don't understand why this is suddenly a major thing.
People have been banging V6 Exige's around tracks for 11 years, and yet have a reputation of being bulletproof.....and after one recent story of a rebuild (although I'm sure there are others, questionable if they're related to over-rev though) we're suddently creating a list of Exiges that should be avoided?
I'm not saying people shouldn't be aware, but I also think context is important. If this over-rev happened 2 years ago, and it's done 8 trackdays since, is it still a problem?
And surely if this does become a well known issue, dealers are just going to be zeroing the values anyway?
People have been banging V6 Exige's around tracks for 11 years, and yet have a reputation of being bulletproof.....and after one recent story of a rebuild (although I'm sure there are others, questionable if they're related to over-rev though) we're suddently creating a list of Exiges that should be avoided?
I'm not saying people shouldn't be aware, but I also think context is important. If this over-rev happened 2 years ago, and it's done 8 trackdays since, is it still a problem?
And surely if this does become a well known issue, dealers are just going to be zeroing the values anyway?
I now know of 3 cars that have had replacement engines not too long after an over rev (Johns being one) - coincidence perhaps or more likely related?
Because in this case it s not all that many engine hours ago and the impact hasn t been verified with the correct checks seemingly.
Fine if someone has checked the impact (if any) more a buyer beware to check.
I wouldn t say a few hundred rpm would be an issue but when you get to 1k rpm plus someone should be confirming the impacts, if any. It s only ~£700 in time to check.
If it s lobes scored for example change out and flush oil before it does more damage seems a sensible thing to do.
Because in this case it s not all that many engine hours ago and the impact hasn t been verified with the correct checks seemingly.
Fine if someone has checked the impact (if any) more a buyer beware to check.
I wouldn t say a few hundred rpm would be an issue but when you get to 1k rpm plus someone should be confirming the impacts, if any. It s only ~£700 in time to check.
If it s lobes scored for example change out and flush oil before it does more damage seems a sensible thing to do.
Edited by P155flaps on Saturday 11th October 10:50
P155flaps said:
The salesman when I alerted tried to tell me the over rev was linked to a clutching issue...
Can you call someone dumping the clutch into too low a gear a 'clutching issue'?.. I guess so.I don't think the problem is that these engines are more likely to be over-revved, more that they carry on working with damaged internals... so you might not notice on a test drive. Hence the advice to get it checked.
I'm no expert, that's just what I've understood.
P155flaps said:
I now know of 3 cars that have had replacement engines not too long after an over rev (Johns being one) - coincidence perhaps or more likely related?
I mean, correlation isn't causation, but I appreciate it's more than coincidental. If you search for rebuilds on these engines, I can find barely anything across the forums or FB groups....couple seemingly not related to overrev (oil starvation?)Jonstar said:
Isn't this "over rev" stuff potentially an issue with all cars? I've only heard of it being a must check on the Porsche forums, usually alongside a thread about future values and Options.
It's more related to cars that are regularly tracked, and spending at a lot of time at the top end - so Exige tends to be more prone than Evoras, which don't commonly see track work as often.Plenty of these cars have been over-revved, the ecu download will flag that up if you ask for it. In the early days it was just a warranty concern and 9 times out of 10 its nothing to worry about. A big over-rev could require an engine inspection and may or may not have voided your engine warranty. Many of these cars are 10+ years old now. The 4xx series going on 7/8 years from first models. I wouldn't rule out a car if over-revved, but if it was showing north of 8krpm then I'd definitely want an engine inspection and some sort of dealer warranty or discount for risk.
This particular orange 410 is unusual and has an interesting history. There's lots of paperwork for it and previous owners have spent a lot of time / money getting it to where it is. The massive over-rev needs more info.
This particular orange 410 is unusual and has an interesting history. There's lots of paperwork for it and previous owners have spent a lot of time / money getting it to where it is. The massive over-rev needs more info.
ecain63 said:
Plenty of these cars have been over-revved, the ecu download will flag that up if you ask for it. In the early days it was just a warranty concern and 9 times out of 10 its nothing to worry about. A big over-rev could require an engine inspection and may or may not have voided your engine warranty. Many of these cars are 10+ years old now. The 4xx series going on 7/8 years from first models. I wouldn't rule out a car if over-revved, but if it was showing north of 8krpm then I'd definitely want an engine inspection and some sort of dealer warranty or discount for risk.
This particular orange 410 is unusual and has an interesting history. There's lots of paperwork for it and previous owners have spent a lot of time / money getting it to where it is. The massive over-rev needs more info.
Yep exactly may be fine but at the circa 8600 range in the not too distant past I’d want an engine inspection to stump up £65k on it. This particular orange 410 is unusual and has an interesting history. There's lots of paperwork for it and previous owners have spent a lot of time / money getting it to where it is. The massive over-rev needs more info.
When I pointed out the dealer in question didn’t say oh gosh we’ll get it inspected they said it’s ok our warranty will cover it if it goes bang (I didn’t read T&Cs so not something I could verify).
Rather than get it inspected prior owner seemingly punted it straight on. Offered to one well known reputable lotus specialist dealer up North he found out about the over rev so declined to buy and it’s ended up at the current garage.
Simple really in this case to de risk someone needs to get it inspected properly, get any damage sorted before it goes pop or confirm it’s all good and no harm done.
Just wanted to flag to anyone who is interested there is a risk that until that’s done. I nearly found myself purchasing without that knowledge.
I am reliably informed other than that it’s in good shape bar a few minor marks here and here and the current orange clam is a slightly different shade of orange to rest of car but no obvious signs of any prior accident damage.
ecain63 said:
Out of interest, how did you get the rev info in 5 minutes? Did you download it off the ECU yourself?
I got hold of the service history in 5 mins then called the garages who had serviced it to see if any had done a rev report or had a view on its mechanical condition. As a service was done back in April this year that was my starting point of my ring round.If you read the lotus forum market watch post thread a very helpful lotus specialist has confirmed he found out about the occurrence when he was offered the car earlier this year.
The car was then A serviced shortly afterwards in April 25 (at the place I spoke to) and then sold privately after the service, with seemingly no mention of over rev in ad so not sure if new buyer was verbally told. Then sold again to this dealer in Oct 5 months later , last V5 issue shows 7th Oct.
Edited by P155flaps on Sunday 12th October 09:40
On the orange one the over rev was at 2000 miles the exact point it had a clutch in it. I assume the clutch went at full chat on track for some reason and the inertia just sent it over 7k.
The particular issue that V6 cars is that in a normal situation like with the old 4 pots and really most other cars is that when you buzz them they would just s
t themselves so you would come into the pits with the bottom end knocking or seized or what have you.
With this particular V6 engine it's the cam followers that come off and they will settle inside the body of the engine but the engine will continue working normally. The danger time comes when you get out on track and with he G forces they become dislodged and end up in the timing/sprockets or wedge under a cam lobe and its game over for the engine.
You can see here where the follower cut a hole out of the cam lobe. The follower was still sat there in the engine when we took the cam cover off. This car had done 1000 miles on the road since its incident.
Engine replacements are far more common that even I was aware when I was speaking to people like Jez at back on track and the guys a Southwest Lotus centre these guys keep tall blocks in stock ready to swap in for customers and do a fair few for the track boys.
It's certainly not scaremongering it's very real. Most cars I see have 7500/7600 on the revs this is just the inertia from the soft limiter. We will go to 7999 revs anything with an 8 is in a risk category. This said I know of an 8600 over rev that had no damage visible on inspection so its not a black and white thing but you as buyers need to be very aware of it. Because of the nature of how the issues can present like on my blue 410 it was a simple EML light that pinged on when the car was very warm it is tempting for people to shift the cars on when they know there is an issue. This has been the case with all the ones I have seen this year people have just punted them o privately or stuck them into dealers that have then not checked them. I'm yet to see a single person having done the right thing and actually have the car looked at!
It's scary reading but it's very easy to avoid getting caught. Unfortunately a lot of the dealers still don't have the kit even though we are all aware of this problem you can still stroll into a big posh unit with plate glass windows and buy a car that you'll never be able to sell on. As the Lotus market fragments there are more and more none specialist dealers selling the cars as well which won't know any of the things to check on the cars including the chassis not just the engine bits which is pretty scary but people just don't seem to think about this stuff.
The particular issue that V6 cars is that in a normal situation like with the old 4 pots and really most other cars is that when you buzz them they would just s
t themselves so you would come into the pits with the bottom end knocking or seized or what have you. With this particular V6 engine it's the cam followers that come off and they will settle inside the body of the engine but the engine will continue working normally. The danger time comes when you get out on track and with he G forces they become dislodged and end up in the timing/sprockets or wedge under a cam lobe and its game over for the engine.
You can see here where the follower cut a hole out of the cam lobe. The follower was still sat there in the engine when we took the cam cover off. This car had done 1000 miles on the road since its incident.
Engine replacements are far more common that even I was aware when I was speaking to people like Jez at back on track and the guys a Southwest Lotus centre these guys keep tall blocks in stock ready to swap in for customers and do a fair few for the track boys.
It's certainly not scaremongering it's very real. Most cars I see have 7500/7600 on the revs this is just the inertia from the soft limiter. We will go to 7999 revs anything with an 8 is in a risk category. This said I know of an 8600 over rev that had no damage visible on inspection so its not a black and white thing but you as buyers need to be very aware of it. Because of the nature of how the issues can present like on my blue 410 it was a simple EML light that pinged on when the car was very warm it is tempting for people to shift the cars on when they know there is an issue. This has been the case with all the ones I have seen this year people have just punted them o privately or stuck them into dealers that have then not checked them. I'm yet to see a single person having done the right thing and actually have the car looked at!
It's scary reading but it's very easy to avoid getting caught. Unfortunately a lot of the dealers still don't have the kit even though we are all aware of this problem you can still stroll into a big posh unit with plate glass windows and buy a car that you'll never be able to sell on. As the Lotus market fragments there are more and more none specialist dealers selling the cars as well which won't know any of the things to check on the cars including the chassis not just the engine bits which is pretty scary but people just don't seem to think about this stuff.
ecain63 said:
So the overrev was before April?
I know the guy who bought it in May.
Yeah as John says around 3k miles ago but who knows if it s been push hard laterally since then.I know the guy who bought it in May.
Interesting to see if the guy you know was made aware and if so also made the garage he s passed it onto aware.
Or ideally he had it properly checked in his ownership and all was good. If so changes the risk on this car totally (for the better).
Interesting he kept the car for 5 months only and did little miles. Did he not like it?
P155flaps said:
Yeah as John says around 3k miles ago but who knows if it s been push hard laterally since then.
Interesting to see if the guy you know was made aware and if so also made the garage he s passed it onto aware.
Or ideally he had it properly checked in his ownership and all was good. If so changes the risk on this car totally (for the better).
Interesting he kept the car for 5 months only and did little miles. Did he not like it?
I don’t think short term ownership of silly sports cars often as a third car in the household is particularly unusual. Interesting to see if the guy you know was made aware and if so also made the garage he s passed it onto aware.
Or ideally he had it properly checked in his ownership and all was good. If so changes the risk on this car totally (for the better).
Interesting he kept the car for 5 months only and did little miles. Did he not like it?
itcaptainslow said:
sjc said:
Might be a silly thing to ask,but don t the V6 s have rev limiters ? By memory the Emira is 6,800 and the last Evora s 7k?
A miss shift into a lower than intended gear can easily buzz the engine past that - no electronic limiter can stop inertia. Yeah this and also repeated banging against the limiter can cause issues also over time, I learned that the hard way. Only engine I have had go pop in 25 years was a twin turbo V8 m6.
Full service history (as in every few k miles) and I only once hit limiter in that in manual mode pushing on (turned out person before me had quite many many times from the data but never over revved as it was an auto).
Car cut and next start nasty knock and may have been coincidence but the rod bearing was shot.
Now fairly sensitive to how an engine has been treated before me as I never track and do push on at times but don t abuse cars. That example was a £32k issue to fix so would rather that an engine that s not been bounced of limiter lots or over revved personally.
Full service history (as in every few k miles) and I only once hit limiter in that in manual mode pushing on (turned out person before me had quite many many times from the data but never over revved as it was an auto).
Car cut and next start nasty knock and may have been coincidence but the rod bearing was shot.
Now fairly sensitive to how an engine has been treated before me as I never track and do push on at times but don t abuse cars. That example was a £32k issue to fix so would rather that an engine that s not been bounced of limiter lots or over revved personally.
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