Simplifying the motorcycle license tests/types/requirements
Simplifying the motorcycle license tests/types/requirements
Author
Discussion

MJohnson

Original Poster:

215 posts

196 months

Tuesday 14th October
quotequote all
Does anyone have any insights if this is vaguely still in the pipeline - its gone very quiet...

Edited by MJohnson on Tuesday 14th October 10:52

bogie

16,815 posts

290 months

Tuesday 14th October
quotequote all
Lots of talk about it in motorcycle press last couple of years and a reform proposal produced, but not seen anything from the government. Campaign from the MCIA ongoing....could take years before there is change

https://mcia.co.uk/licence-to-net-zero-communicati...

hiccy18

3,493 posts

85 months

Tuesday 14th October
quotequote all
I thought the EU are debating this so it's likely we'll end up copying them?

I dont believe there's been a benefit in the current system versus the previous tests.

gareth_r

6,380 posts

255 months

Tuesday 14th October
quotequote all
Why would they change a system that's doing exactly what it was designed to do?

J__Wood

524 posts

79 months

Tuesday 14th October
quotequote all
From MCN last week https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2025/october/r...
'The newly published government figures show 340 rider deaths last year – up from 315 in 2023 – making motorcyclists the only major road user group to record an increase. They now account for 21% of all road fatalities, despite making up a tiny proportion of total traffic.'

'By comparison, car occupant deaths fell by 5% to 692, pedal cyclist fatalities dropped 6% to 82, and pedestrian deaths nudged up just 1% to 409.'

I'd stab that there is not a chance they are going to relax the testing regime as they'll look at the headline figure.

Going back to the 1977 to 1981 there were an average of 1,160 motorcycle fatalities per year.
The number of motorcyclist deaths peaked in the early 1980s before a sharp decline that began in 1983 with the introduction 1981 Transport Act changes - 125cc etc. It was carnage.

Fuller picture but only to 2015 at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a8...
More up to date https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-...

TT1138

783 posts

152 months

Tuesday 14th October
quotequote all
gareth_r said:
Why would they change a system that's doing exactly what it was designed to do?
Exactly. No tin foil hat, but it was designed to make getting on a motorbike as costly and difficult as possible, within the limits of what they were allowed to do.

MJohnson

Original Poster:

215 posts

196 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
TT1138 said:
Exactly. No tin foil hat, but it was designed to make getting on a motorbike as costly and difficult as possible, within the limits of what they were allowed to do.
That is my feeling and one of the reasons it was being looked at again. Its seems over engineered/complicated and expensive.

We shall see - Thanks

STe_rsv4

1,036 posts

116 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
J__Wood said:
From MCN last week https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2025/october/r...
'The newly published government figures show 340 rider deaths last year up from 315 in 2023 making motorcyclists the only major road user group to record an increase. They now account for 21% of all road fatalities, despite making up a tiny proportion of total traffic.'

'By comparison, car occupant deaths fell by 5% to 692, pedal cyclist fatalities dropped 6% to 82, and pedestrian deaths nudged up just 1% to 409.'

I'd stab that there is not a chance they are going to relax the testing regime as they'll look at the headline figure.

Going back to the 1977 to 1981 there were an average of 1,160 motorcycle fatalities per year.
The number of motorcyclist deaths peaked in the early 1980s before a sharp decline that began in 1983 with the introduction 1981 Transport Act changes - 125cc etc. It was carnage.

Fuller picture but only to 2015 at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a8...
More up to date https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-...
Would be interesting to know (if this information is actually available) out of all those deaths:

Was driver distraction a cause? Cars are now mostly touch screen and gadget laden - has this played a part?
Has road surface / condition caused an increase? Most of the roads are a lot worse than they were 5 year ago where I ride due to increased use and less maintenance
what the agaes of the bikers were? Certainly doesnt seem to be as many young riders getting bikes as there were

hondajack85

805 posts

17 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
I get the impression that due to any fool getting on an ebike and terrorizing the public that somehow the motorcycle rules have to come in step with the zero complience ebike crowd.
I would prefer it to go the other way with test and licence requirments for ebikes.

Freakuk

4,167 posts

169 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
STe_rsv4 said:
J__Wood said:
From MCN last week https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2025/october/r...
'The newly published government figures show 340 rider deaths last year up from 315 in 2023 making motorcyclists the only major road user group to record an increase. They now account for 21% of all road fatalities, despite making up a tiny proportion of total traffic.'

'By comparison, car occupant deaths fell by 5% to 692, pedal cyclist fatalities dropped 6% to 82, and pedestrian deaths nudged up just 1% to 409.'

I'd stab that there is not a chance they are going to relax the testing regime as they'll look at the headline figure.

Going back to the 1977 to 1981 there were an average of 1,160 motorcycle fatalities per year.
The number of motorcyclist deaths peaked in the early 1980s before a sharp decline that began in 1983 with the introduction 1981 Transport Act changes - 125cc etc. It was carnage.

Fuller picture but only to 2015 at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a8...
More up to date https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-...
Would be interesting to know (if this information is actually available) out of all those deaths:

Was driver distraction a cause? Cars are now mostly touch screen and gadget laden - has this played a part?
Has road surface / condition caused an increase? Most of the roads are a lot worse than they were 5 year ago where I ride due to increased use and less maintenance
what the agaes of the bikers were? Certainly doesnt seem to be as many young riders getting bikes as there were
These are the kind of questions I would want to ask. Just because motorcycle deaths have unfortunately increased doesn't necessarily mean that they are more dangerous, as you say how many were cause by car drivers, the usual SMIDSY would probably apply to most.

gareth_r

6,380 posts

255 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
hondajack85 said:
I get the impression that due to any fool getting on an ebike and terrorizing the public that somehow the motorcycle rules have to come in step with the zero complience ebike crowd.
I would prefer it to go the other way with test and licence requirments for ebikes.
The electric bikes of which you speak are classed as motorcycles and are already subject to test and licence requirements.

I doubt that pushbikes with 1/3 bhp of electric assistance that cuts out at 15 mph are terrorising people. smile

OverSteery

3,792 posts

249 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
J__Wood said:
From MCN last week https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2025/october/r...
'The newly published government figures show 340 rider deaths last year up from 315 in 2023 making motorcyclists the only major road user group to record an increase.
As far as I can see, the figure is misquotes. The 340 deaths is per billion vehicle miles, not the number of actual deaths.

Looking over the last 10 years on the Government website , it looks fairly consistent with a very slight upward trend, with the average at 332





Also from source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-...

Main findings
Between 2004 and 2023:

fatalities were down 46% from 585 to 315

serious injuries (adjusted) decreased by 36%

motorcycle traffic decreased by 10%

Edited by OverSteery on Wednesday 15th October 16:09

ChocolateFrog

33,021 posts

191 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
TT1138 said:
gareth_r said:
Why would they change a system that's doing exactly what it was designed to do?
Exactly. No tin foil hat, but it was designed to make getting on a motorbike as costly and difficult as possible, within the limits of what they were allowed to do.
It wouldn't surprise me if the prevailing winds were to make it even harder.

It's a little bit like alcohol, if it was invented today it would be banned tomorrow.


Edited by ChocolateFrog on Wednesday 15th October 16:22

the cueball

1,607 posts

73 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
Freakuk said:
These are the kind of questions I would want to ask. Just because motorcycle deaths have unfortunately increased doesn't necessarily mean that they are more dangerous, as you say how many were cause by car drivers, the usual SMIDSY would probably apply to most.
It'll be easier to just hammer bikers... most drivers think we're all idiots anyway...

I was tracking the biker deaths in Scotland this year, stopped counting at 23... and from what I could gather... only 3 of them was 100% rider error (single vehicle) and most of them were at junctions involving at least 1 car.

In EVERY case, so many of the comments on various FB pages (local news, Police, Nation news, etc) all had drivers with tales of bikers riding like muppets / death wishes/pushing through traffic / scaring old ladies / etc etc... underlying narrative was clearly that bikers are the cause of all issues and we deserve what we get.

It's just how we're viewed by many.

Edited by the cueball on Wednesday 15th October 18:23

ChocolateFrog

33,021 posts

191 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
the cueball said:
Freakuk said:
These are the kind of questions I would want to ask. Just because motorcycle deaths have unfortunately increased doesn't necessarily mean that they are more dangerous, as you say how many were cause by car drivers, the usual SMIDSY would probably apply to most.
It'll be easier to just hammer bikers... most drivers think we're all idiots anyway...

I was tracking the biker deaths in Scotland this year, stopped counting at 23... and from what I could gather... only 3 of them was 100% rider error (single vehicle) and most of them were at junctions involving at least 1 car.

In EVERY case, so many of the comments on various FB pages (local news, Police, Nation news, etc) all had drivers with tails of bikers riding like muppets / death wishes/pushing through traffic / scaring old ladies / etc etc... underlying narrative was clearly that bikers are the cause of all issues and we deserve what we get.

It's just how we're viewed by many.
Try being a cyclist and daring to cross a motorist.

OverSteery

3,792 posts

249 months

Wednesday 15th October
quotequote all
the cueball said:
Freakuk said:
These are the kind of questions I would want to ask. Just because motorcycle deaths have unfortunately increased doesn't necessarily mean that they are more dangerous, as you say how many were cause by car drivers, the usual SMIDSY would probably apply to most.
It'll be easier to just hammer bikers... most drivers think we're all idiots anyway...

I was tracking the biker deaths in Scotland this year, stopped counting at 23... and from what I could gather... only 3 of them was 100% rider error (single vehicle) and most of them were at junctions involving at least 1 car.

In EVERY case, so many of the comments on various FB pages (local news, Police, Nation news, etc) all had drivers with tails of bikers riding like muppets / death wishes/pushing through traffic / scaring old ladies / etc etc... underlying narrative was clearly that bikers are the cause of all issues and we deserve what we get.

It's just how we're viewed by many.
The figures suggest that about 25% of motorcycle fatalities are single vehicle accidents.

I'm afraid I view a significant number of motorcyclists. as idiots. ( I ride about 10k miles per year).

Biker9090

1,602 posts

55 months

Thursday 16th October
quotequote all
I can't see this ever happening.

It'll be painted as dangerous/reckless etc etc etc.

It's the same reason why firearms laws, drug laws, OSA etc will never be loosened.

This country is absolutely OBSESSED with H&S/Nanny state interfearance/control whatever you want to call it and anyone trying to do otherwise with be eviscerated by the Press and opposing Politicians.

phil4

1,530 posts

256 months

Thursday 16th October
quotequote all
I thought the idea was to crack down on the large number of "Never a take a test" L platers. IE. not make getting a full licenses harder or cheaper, but to mop up some of those riding who never take it.

Biker9090

1,602 posts

55 months

Friday 17th October
quotequote all
phil4 said:
I thought the idea was to crack down on the large number of "Never a take a test" L platers. IE. not make getting a full licenses harder or cheaper, but to mop up some of those riding who never take it.
There are all kinds of things that the MC press and forums bang on about in relation to it. Usually it's the (I agree) ludicrously complicated, longwinded and expensive process for younger riders (under 19 especially) to be able to get on a "proper" bike.

I think most of the L Plate hate (rightly) comes from the Deliveroo tts and any change there will be (understandably I guess in this case) countered by them using illegal Electric bikes instead.

gareth_r

6,380 posts

255 months

Friday 17th October
quotequote all
I like Guernsey's system

https://gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=101885&p=0

Moped 14
A1 16
A 17

but I'd accept
Moped 15
A1 16
A2 17
A 18

After all, 16 = adult now (when it suits).