HSBC - Cautionary Tale
HSBC - Cautionary Tale
Author
Discussion

pubrunner

Original Poster:

484 posts

101 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
This is a cautionary tale, that I hope may be of interest to anyone holding an account with HSBC.

My Mum passed away in August and I am one of the Executors for her estate. Within two days of her passing, I visited the nearest HSBC branch, to notify them of her passing and to request that hers and my father's Joint Account was to be put into my father s name only. Additionally, a block was put on her Debit & Credit cards.

Just yesterday, I received a letter (dated 8th October) from a Debt Recovery company called Phillips & Cohen , asking for a payment (over £1,000) this being the amount that was owed to their client - their client being HSBC.

The payment request gave only their client's name (HSBC), my Mum's name and the amount due nothing else ! No details were provided about the nature of the debt, or for how long it had been outstanding. The letter suggested that I could make payment over the phone . . . to this (seemingly) random company.

I phoned the HSBC, to be told my Mum had a Premier Credit card which in ordinary circumstances, was always automatically paid off on the same date each month by Direct Debit. This is what had happened for many years and she'd never been charged for late payment. However, when her name was taken off the account and her cards were cancelled, no payment was made on the outstanding amount (over £1,000). (My mum made most of her purchases by Credit card purely because of the protection provided).

The HSBC representative told me that a new procedure has recently been introduced, in which all debts to HSBC that are over one month old, are passed to Phillips & Cohen. I asked the representative, when were HSBC customers notified that this new procedure had been introduced ? She couldn't answer.

All she could say, was that the matter was out of the hands of the HSBC, as it had been passed on to Phillips & Cohen and that payment must be made directly to them. But surely, the contract that my parents have always had, has been with HSBC not Phillips & Cohen ?

Today, I took my Dad to the nearest branch of HSBC where he offered to make full payment there and then, for the outstanding amount. We were advised, that he shouldn't make payment direct to HSBC, as Phillips & Cohen might not be aware of it and could chase us for the money and this could lead to a bad credit history .

In a nutshell, my Mum's estate (which hasn't yet been wound-up) owes the HSBC over £1K and my father has ample means (& is willing) to make that payment in full at the earliest opportunity.

Instead, it seems that under this new system, we are expected to pay Phillips & Cohen, who will then give the money to HSBC . . . . . . . no doubt, having first extracted their own commission - I wonder what kind of percentage Phillips & Cohen make out of this ?.

This seems utter folly and I just can't see how HSBC think that this system is a good idea; clients with outstanding Credit cards fees must die on an almost daily basis and to send such debts straight to a debt recovery agency seems way over the top.

On our visit to the branch today, it was confirmed that no documentation had been sent out to either my father or the other executors, telling us that there was an outstanding amount that was due on my Mum's account and thus, needed to be settled.

It seems premature in the extreme, to put the matter into the hands of debt recovery agents, given that my Mum passed away in August and her financial affairs haven't even been finalized yet. (What I've learned from this, is that I should have asked if there were any outstanding amounts on my Mum's account).

My father who is in his late 90s, has been with them (Midland/HSBC) for about over 60 years, but is now considering changing to another bank - can't say that I blame him..


Edited by pubrunner on Tuesday 14th October 18:13


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Edited by pubrunner on Tuesday 14th October 18:16


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Edited by pubrunner on Tuesday 14th October 18:21

butchstewie

60,849 posts

228 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
That sounds like the last thing you need right now and sorry to hear about your mum.

Are you (and HSBC) saying they quite literally made no attempt to contact anyone about the outstanding debt?

That feels like it has "complaint" and "escalation" and "ombudsman" written all over it as well as possible a few of the financial journos from the likes of the Mail or Telegraph.

alangla

5,866 posts

199 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
This. Go straight to one of the consumer champion type hacks, they love stories like this and will quite happily nail HSBC for such shoddy treatment of the bereaved. Katie Morley’s contact details can be found here https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie-investigat...

pubrunner

Original Poster:

484 posts

101 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
butchstewie said:
That sounds like the last thing you need right now and sorry to hear about your mum.
I appreciate your kind sentiments - thank you.


butchstewie said:
Are you (and HSBC) saying they quite literally made no attempt to contact anyone about the outstanding debt?
Yes, exactly this ^^^.

Essentially, they have made no attempt to contact us over the outstanding debt and they know that to be the case - they must have some kind of system in place, which keeps a record of documentation that has been sent out. (There's no dispute over this).

It's particularly annoying, that they say that "the matter is out of their hands" and that we need to deal directly with the debt recovery company - to whom they'll be paying commission for recovering the money. We are more than happy to pay HSBC in full, but it seems that they'd rather pay commission - which is utterly ridiculous.

butchstewie said:
That feels like it has "complaint" and "escalation" and "ombudsman" written all over it as well as possible a few of the financial journos from the likes of the Mail or Telegraph.
I think that this is what we'll do.

I was shocked to be told, that a new procedure has been introduced, in which outstanding debts over a month old, are passed on to Phillips and Cohen and that when this happens, there's "nothing that the bank can do".

pubrunner

Original Poster:

484 posts

101 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
alangla said:
This. Go straight to one of the consumer champion type hacks, they love stories like this and will quite happily nail HSBC for such shoddy treatment of the bereaved. Katie Morley s contact details can be found here https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie-investigat...
Thank you for this suggestion . . . I'll have a word with my fellow Executors and if agreement is reached, that's what we'll do.


Inbox

612 posts

4 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Question, did you deal with the Bereavement team at HSBC or the local staff in the branch?

I assume you provided the relevant certificate, copy of the will, your ID, etc to verify you are an executor and have relevant authority.

I am surprised how they behaved especially at such a sensitive time.

If you didn't contact the Bereavement team I suggest you do and give them hell over what has happened.

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/life-events/bereavemen...


butchstewie

60,849 posts

228 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
If they have a bereavement team that sounds entirely sensible.

I would also ask for it to all be put in writing.

It may focus some minds and with absolute respect it's probably easier for you to pass on and it also avoids "recollections may vary" or "HSBC said they are unable to talk to us because we are not the account holder" if you did try to get any press involved.

I know the timing and circumstances are st but play hell basically.

leef44

5,066 posts

171 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
pubrunner said:
alangla said:
This. Go straight to one of the consumer champion type hacks, they love stories like this and will quite happily nail HSBC for such shoddy treatment of the bereaved. Katie Morley s contact details can be found here https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie-investigat...
Thank you for this suggestion . . . I'll have a word with my fellow Executors and if agreement is reached, that's what we'll do.
That sounds like a good approach. When the journalist calls HSBC, I bet they will be quick to write off the debt as a goodwill gesture and make a statement that they will be changing their draconian process to something more humane.

pubrunner

Original Poster:

484 posts

101 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Inbox said:
Question, did you deal with the Bereavement team at HSBC or the local staff in the branch?

I assume you provided the relevant certificate, copy of the will, your ID, etc to verify you are an executor and have relevant authority.

I am surprised how they behaved especially at such a sensitive time.

If you didn't contact the Bereavement team I suggest you do and give them hell over what has happened.

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/life-events/bereavemen...
In the first instance, we contacted the Bereavement team and let them know of my Mum's death. The following day, we went to the local branch to have the (Joint) Account details to be put into my Father's name only.

Yes, we've provided all the relevant documentation, including an original Certificate of Death.

I contacted the Bereavement team again - just yesterday; I explained the situation and they told me that "I'd come through to the wrong department and that it wasn't a matter for them, as it was to do with outstanding debts". They then transferred my call and the outcome of that, was that I "had to deal directly with Phillips & Cohen".

pubrunner

Original Poster:

484 posts

101 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
For years, I've always told anyone that would listen smile , that a primary rule in any business, is to make it easy for customers to make payment.

We are willing to make full and prompt payment, yet HSBC are saying we 'can't pay them and that payment 'has' to be made to an intermediary - who will take their own cut and then send the residue to the HSBC - some time down the line.

I really shouldn't let it 'nark' me, but I'm irritated at the sheer inefficiency of it all.

pubrunner

Original Poster:

484 posts

101 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
leef44 said:
When the journalist calls HSBC, I bet they will be quick to write off the debt as a goodwill gesture
I don't think that the HSBC are in any position to write off the debt, as the debt now 'belongs' with Phillips & Cohen.

The whole madness of all this, is that HSBC has lost control, by handing matters over to a 3rd party.

Mikebentley

7,710 posts

158 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
The debt always remains the property of the client in this case HSBC. They can contact the debt recovery company and ask for it back if it was issued in error. They always reserve this right as errors can occur and no debt recovery company would want to sour the business arrangement. Just curious has the debt had any additional enforcement process fees added? If it’s just the outstanding balance from the credit card I would pay the DR agency as HSBC will be out of pocket.

With regards to who with and how they schedule the recovery of what they see as outstanding debts I would imagine an old fashioned red letter would be sent prior to a debt recovery stage. Maybe HSBC are subcontracting the whole process.

I agree their system for recording the sad news regarding your mother has created this issue so HSBC should really sort this out.

Sorry to read of your loss.

Blue_star

284 posts

34 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Stories like this make by blood boil. Im really fked off seriously.

How much extra do you need to oay in fees? I didnt see the amount sorry if I missed

gtb4

183 posts

212 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Sorry for your loss. I’m surprised that you’ve been treated this way by HSBC as my experience of them has been pretty good.

I Googled HSBC Phillips and Cohen. This set of FAQs suggest that Phillips and Cohen are their bereavement partners. It says:

“They specialise in supporting Personal Representatives with estates that have outstanding unsecured debts”

I’m guessing that they are not your usual debt collectors. It might be worth contacting them and seeing what they say. Especially before going to the papers.

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/life-events/bereavemen...

Anyway best of luck with it.

Mikebentley

7,710 posts

158 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
gtb4 said:
Sorry for your loss. I m surprised that you ve been treated this way by HSBC as my experience of them has been pretty good.

I Googled HSBC Phillips and Cohen. This set of FAQs suggest that Phillips and Cohen are their bereavement partners. It says:

They specialise in supporting Personal Representatives with estates that have outstanding unsecured debts

I m guessing that they are not your usual debt collectors. It might be worth contacting them and seeing what they say. Especially before going to the papers.

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/life-events/bereavemen...

Anyway best of luck with it.
Seeing your post suggests that this is just a mechanism for possibly informing an estate in probate of an outstanding liability.

Actual

1,427 posts

124 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Is the amount being requested the outstanding statement balance or have HSBC and debt collector fees been added on top?

butchstewie

60,849 posts

228 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Mikebentley said:
Seeing your post suggests that this is just a mechanism for possibly informing an estate in probate of an outstanding liability.
That does appear to put a slightly different take on it - pubrunner what's the rough wording of the letter?

Is there anything along those lines on it to make it clear who/what they are?

Inbox

612 posts

4 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
pubrunner said:
Inbox said:
Question, did you deal with the Bereavement team at HSBC or the local staff in the branch?

I assume you provided the relevant certificate, copy of the will, your ID, etc to verify you are an executor and have relevant authority.

I am surprised how they behaved especially at such a sensitive time.

If you didn't contact the Bereavement team I suggest you do and give them hell over what has happened.

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/life-events/bereavemen...
In the first instance, we contacted the Bereavement team and let them know of my Mum's death. The following day, we went to the local branch to have the (Joint) Account details to be put into my Father's name only.

Yes, we've provided all the relevant documentation, including an original Certificate of Death.

I contacted the Bereavement team again - just yesterday; I explained the situation and they told me that "I'd come through to the wrong department and that it wasn't a matter for them, as it was to do with outstanding debts". They then transferred my call and the outcome of that, was that I "had to deal directly with Phillips & Cohen".
That is absolutely appalling, very different to my experiences of HSBC under similar circumstances.

In the first instance contact the debt recovery people, tell them the person they are chasing is deceased and send an original death cert recorded/signed for so there is a record of them getting it. That should stop them as they can now only recover the owed money from your Mothers estate. Might be worth talking to Citizens Advice regarding the debt recovery situation so know what can/cannot be done.

Then make a formal complaint to the HSBC CEO and give them both barrels because this is so wrong.

I really feel for you, at the worst time these bds just make it worse..

Sheepshanks

38,114 posts

137 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Quite odd - their Google reviews are horrendous but their Trustpilot reviews are outstanding.

They are debt collectors, often acting for utility companies when people have deceased.


I found things got random in the estate I dealt with, with a sole NatWest account holder. Once I told them they kept refused most refunds from utility etc cancellations (but accepted some) which made getting payments a right pain.

NickXX

1,623 posts

236 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
I would put in a complaint as soon as you can, and mention it to the bereavement team/Premier Banking team. I’m surprised that the bank has put you in this complicated position, and I’d hope that the bereavements team/Premier Banking team would be of a similar sentiment - unfortunately it can sometimes take a bit of time to get to someone who understands what to do in exceptional circumstances.

Sorry for your loss and hope that you get it sorted soon.