So 80% of commercial properties unlettable by 2030

[Good Plan Ted]

So just to add to the residential property EPC regulations that I believe will make 60% of residential let homes practically worthless we will also have nowhere to shop or work.

https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/over-80-per-ce...

[JagLover]

Good Plan Ted said:

So just to add to the residential property EPC regulations that I believe will make 60% of residential let homes practically worthless we will also have nowhere to shop or work.

https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/over-80-per-ce...

Interesting. I wasn't aware of upcoming new rules for commercial lets.

I imagine this will give another big push to WFH. As older buildings are sold off, as unviable to be brought up to the new EPC standard, then rents for the remainder will rise.

This will impact most obviously on office work, but you might even see more of other tasks being taken into people's homes, even an increased use of the old piecework system.

[irc]

Another place for Reform to win votes then. Relax the rules after they winf the 2029 election.

[PlywoodPascal]

Yeah it will be a big doorstep issue

[Ian Geary]

PlywoodPascal said:

Yeah it will be a big doorstep issue

Hmm, I'm not sure how many voters read the landlord zone though.


Most people have quite small horizons, and things aren't considered a problem until they are living with the consequences. A psychologist could talk about it far better than me (an accountant).

I have thought for ages that the true cost of net zero measures isn't being explained anywhere near as well as it should be for such a material policy package.

And voters suppoting net zero in principal being happy that "something is being done" won't be nearly as happy when they realise it is them who will get hit with financial consequences.


Though ironically, climate change itself is the ultimate long term problem that requires a short / medium term fixes.


I recall some economist worked out the cost of climate change would far outweigh the price to tackle it: if humans didn't leave it to late.


To me: the main achillese heel of the uk's approach is that it beggars the uk's economy whilst making flip all difference to emissions globally - the exact opposite of the "free rider" problem (if people are familiar with that economic terminology).


So my guess is voters will sleepwalk right up to the point environmental regulations hit their pocket. And in a few years start to cry at the government to "do something", which they will do- on the basis they only get their job if they do what people want.

And then a few decades later, when climate shifts start to hit their pocket, they will cry at the government again, but it will be a moot point by then because it really depends on what China, USA and india do.

Still, we are only 2 decades away from fusion, so who knows?

[OMITN]

So this is rather alarmist isn’t it.

So there’s a consultation taking place on this. The move to EPC C and B were always envisaged (but - crucially - not made into law) under the original MEES regulations from 2018.

So I don’t believe the consultation has been returned and regulations put in place.

So it would be better to find out the outcomes of that consultation and and any proposed regulations (including the exemptions that go with those regulations, like the exemptions that exist today.

[JagLover]

OMITN said:

So this is rather alarmist isn t it.

So there s a consultation taking place on this. The move to EPC C and B were always envisaged (but - crucially - not made into law) under the original MEES regulations from 2018.

So I don t believe the consultation has been returned and regulations put in place.

So it would be better to find out the outcomes of that consultation and and any proposed regulations (including the exemptions that go with those regulations, like the exemptions that exist today.

28% of commercial properties are rated D or below, so the change regarding EPC C will already have a large impact.

[Getragdogleg]

How the hell do you EPC a warehouse with 20ft wide 18ft high roller shutter doors at both ends that are open all day ?

Maybe just don't have any electricity coming into it so it cant be wasted...

[RicksAlfas]

Getragdogleg said:

How the hell do you EPC a warehouse with 20ft wide 18ft high roller shutter doors at both ends that are open all day ?

Maybe just don't have any electricity coming into it so it cant be wasted...

It's not relevant because the people that come up with this rubbish know that "everyone works from home these days".

[Terminator X]

Best to not ignore it as they will come for main homes next. Upgrade insulation and all that nonsense before you can sell etc.

TX.

[JagLover]

Terminator X said:

Best to not ignore it as they will come for main homes next. Upgrade insulation and all that nonsense before you can sell etc.

TX.

Upgrade insulation and create damp problems based on the recent government scheme doing just that.

[Furbo]

OMITN said:

So I don t believe the consultation has been returned and regulations put in place.

It's a public sector consultation. It will be cherry-picked and the muppets will do whatever aligns with their politics.

[Jasandjules]

Terminator X said:

Best to not ignore it as they will come for main homes next. Upgrade insulation and all that nonsense before you can sell etc.

TX.

Already done for Landlords, yes only a matter of time before it comes to us.

What is really tragic is I am looking at house reports currently, the number of ones I see that say if you spend 20k on X and Y (like insulation, windows, heat pump, solar panels etc) you can save 5k.... It is madness.

[ATG]

None of this is about making financial savings on individual buildings. Why is that supposed to be the litmus test?

We have to reduce greenhouse gas emissions because the consequences of not doing that far outweigh the pain of addressing the problem now.

That means there are things we will have to do differently in the future and adapting to those changes will hit some more than others.

If an entire sector gets hit, then they can collectively pass the cost through to their customers. Everyone ends up paying, which is fair. Alternatively, if a problem is specific to an individual firm, e.g. they happen to be geared to the hilt after just building a huge new shiny and very thermally inefficient warehouse, then they can go bust and their creditors can take a bath; also fair.

[OutInTheShed]

A lot of office blocks are quite poor though?

I've worked in a few which have been baking in the summer, despite spaffing a lot on aircon.
Some of these places are wasting a lot of energy.

If you see what places like schools spend on heating, it's big numbers.

[pghstochaj]

Getragdogleg said:

How the hell do you EPC a warehouse with 20ft wide 18ft high roller shutter doors at both ends that are open all day ?

Maybe just don't have any electricity coming into it so it cant be wasted...

You carry out the EPC assessment assuming that the doors are closed?

[98elise]

Getragdogleg said:

How the hell do you EPC a warehouse with 20ft wide 18ft high roller shutter doors at both ends that are open all day ?

Maybe just don't have any electricity coming into it so it cant be wasted...

Its the same simplistic mentality of EPC C for rentals. Demand people do it, and have huge fines for non compliance.

I have a rental flat thats EPC D. The EPC says with work it will still be D. As its leasehold I can't even to the work as I don't own the structure.



The tenant will need to be evicted and the property sold.

Edited by 98elise on Friday 17th October 11:07

[ATG]

OutInTheShed said:

A lot of office blocks are quite poor though?

I've worked in a few which have been baking in the summer, despite spaffing a lot on aircon.
Some of these places are wasting a lot of energy.

If you see what places like schools spend on heating, it's big numbers.

I worked in a building that had won a load of awards for its thermal efficiency ... but was then used as laboratory space and packed full of electrical equipment that produced tons of heat. A lot of the work was conducted on optical benches; big, rigid steel tables whose temperature must remain static, because otherwise they expand or contract and that changes the lengths of the optical paths across the tables which can bugger things up. Also we need to cover all the windows with blackout blinds so we didn't accidentally shine lasers into the carpark. And the lasers themselves needed to be kept within a fairly narrow temperature band, because they are resonant chambers so thermal expansion will stop then working and they usually had a pretty finite capacity to retune themselves.

So, not only did the heating never get switched on, but we needed active air conditioning. We couldn't just open the windows properly because of lasers and not wanting to blind people permanently. Did the building have air conditioning? No. So we ended up using loads of the roll-around portable a/c units that are incredibly inefficient and dump their heat and condensate through some hoses that we sneaked out of a window that was cracked open and then sealed up with cardboard to stop the draughts so that the blackout blinds would stay in place.

Joined up thinking.

[OutInTheShed]

I took some sails to be repaired a while back.
The sailmaker was in a rented unit which got to 30degC by 11AM.
He was working some kind of 'spanish hours' from horrid AM to coffee time and then start again in the evening.

Not great for productivity.

[pghstochaj]

ATG said:

OutInTheShed said:

A lot of office blocks are quite poor though?

I've worked in a few which have been baking in the summer, despite spaffing a lot on aircon.
Some of these places are wasting a lot of energy.

If you see what places like schools spend on heating, it's big numbers.

I worked in a building that had won a load of awards for its thermal efficiency ... but was then used as laboratory space and packed full of electrical equipment that produced tons of heat. A lot of the work was conducted on optical benches; big, rigid steel tables whose temperature must remain static, because otherwise they expand or contract and that changes the lengths of the optical paths across the tables which can bugger things up. Also we need to cover all the windows with blackout blinds so we didn't accidentally shine lasers into the carpark. And the lasers themselves needed to be kept within a fairly narrow temperature band, because they are resonant chambers so thermal expansion will stop then working and they usually had a pretty finite capacity to retune themselves.

So, not only did the heating never get switched on, but we needed active air conditioning. We couldn't just open the windows properly because of lasers and not wanting to blind people permanently. Did the building have air conditioning? No. So we ended up using loads of the roll-around portable a/c units that are incredibly inefficient and dump their heat and condensate through some hoses that we sneaked out of a window that was cracked open and then sealed up with cardboard to stop the draughts so that the blackout blinds would stay in place.

Joined up thinking.

What building was that?