Voge/CF Moto adventure bikes
Voge/CF Moto adventure bikes
Author
Discussion

robinh73

Original Poster:

1,170 posts

218 months

Saturday
quotequote all
Afternoon all, having spent many hours looking at adventure bikes, I am.getting drawn to the value of bikes such as the Voge 900 adventure bike. They are available for the same price as a decent Japanese equivalent. Has anyone got any experience of them? They seem to get good reviews and even the long term reviews seem good on the Voge.

airsafari87

3,133 posts

200 months

Saturday
quotequote all
For 7k I d have one.

Get it on as cheap a PCP deal as I possibly can and hand it back after 3 or 4 years.

I wouldn t fancy buying new and trying to sell privately after that same period of time.

ETA.
I don’t think I could have one as my only bike though. But I am saying that without actually riding one so a test ride may change that.

Gaz Said

6 posts

8 months

Saturday
quotequote all
I've got a cfmoto 800mt sport, I bought used for cheap. It's pretty spot on and will go to Alps next year. Cornering abs, road biased suspension and cruise control. I did get it remapped to remove the harsh fuel cut.

The Voges, CFmotos, even the Morbidelli t1002 are now turning up used with good amounts off. The new QJmotor 900 is £7500 with all the toys. The zontes 700 is also worth a look.


robinh73

Original Poster:

1,170 posts

218 months

Saturday
quotequote all
They just seem to be ticking all the boxes and the new CF Moto 800 was featured in the latest issue of Ride magazine. The natural comparison bike was the Yamaha Tenere 700 and the outcome was essentially that the Japanese should be very worried as the CF Moto pretty much left the Yamaha in the dust.
I am lucky that it wouldn't be my only bike as I have my new KTM Superduke which is epic.
I had a very good look at the Voge 900 in my local dealership in Chester and have to say I was very impressed. The engine is made by Loncin who make the exact same engine for the BMW F900GS, so it is basically a BMW GS900 for a good few thousand less. It really is incredibly tempting.

0ddball

902 posts

157 months

Saturday
quotequote all
I have a Voge 300 Rally for a bit of fun on the green lanes, and for a couple of grand, it's great. No grease anywhere, so you need to pull apart the swingarm/linkages/headstock and grease everything properly. Any sort of workshop manual with torques etc doesn't seem to exist, so it's a case of figure it out for yourself. And parts supply is already questionable, so god knows what it will be like 5 years down the line.

Not sure if be paying 7k for one of the bigger ones. Think I would stick to one of the big 4, at least you know parts will be available.

Steve Bass

10,575 posts

251 months

0ddball said:
I have a Voge 300 Rally for a bit of fun on the green lanes, and for a couple of grand, it's great. No grease anywhere, so you need to pull apart the swingarm/linkages/headstock and grease everything properly. Any sort of workshop manual with torques etc doesn't seem to exist, so it's a case of figure it out for yourself. And parts supply is already questionable, so god knows what it will be like 5 years down the line.

Not sure if be paying 7k for one of the bigger ones. Think I would stick to one of the big 4, at least you know parts will be available.
I think this sums it up well.
The Chinese bikes offer great value however it really needs to be viewed as a dispensable purchase.
The lack of service parts, information, dealer support and (as a result) very low second hand values means that while you re possibly saving money on the initial purchase side, and retained value is minimized.
So if a CF moto is 7k to buy and worth 2k after 3 years, is that better value than a comparable mainstream machine that would cost (for example) 10k to buy but be worth 6k in 3 years and have the back end support.
From personal experience, a neighbour has asked me to help fix his Chinese Quad bike. Only needs a new sprag clutch and it’s a pretty common model but the headache involved in (a) finding the right parts (b) finding the right tool) has put me off for life. There’s no dealer support, no technical support or knowledge, you’re basically out on your own hoping to get it right.
Yes, it’s cheaper than an equivalent Honda, Yamaha, Polaris etc but the parts are off the shelf, not a Temu hope and prayer away.
There is a famous saying
Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten.
I think it’s pretty true



Edited by Steve Bass on Sunday 19th October 16:04

Steve_H80

470 posts

40 months

I'm on the other side. I'll wait a couple of years, if the used prices have dropped as much as predicted, no intrinsic problems have shown up and spares can be tracked down I'll take a punt.

Biker9090

1,602 posts

55 months

I thought many of these things are effectively carbon copies of Japanese (300 Rally is a Kawasaki KLX?) and Euro bikes (the 900dsx is effectively a BMW F800) anyway....

Aren't Voge part of Loncin - who have been making "Euro" engines for years.

Considering the - frankly ludicrous - reliability issues many "premium" European brands seem to have I don't see the issue with Chinese bikes some above are alluding to.

Biker9090

1,602 posts

55 months

Steve Bass said:
From personal experience, a neighbour has asked me to help fix his Chinese Quad bike. Only needs a new sprag clutch and it s a pretty common model but the headache involved in (a) finding the right parts (b) finding the right tool) has put me off for life. There s no dealer support, no technical support or knowledge, you re basically out on your own hoping to get it right.
Yes, it s cheaper than an equivalent Honda, Yamaha, Polaris etc but the parts are off the shelf, not a Temu hope and prayer away.
There is a famous saying
Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten.
I think it s pretty true

Edited by Steve Bass on Sunday 19th October 16:04
So, like a KTM? 😅

Steve Bass

10,575 posts

251 months

Biker9090 said:
So, like a KTM? ?
Not sure of your point?
My experience of KTM has been without issue.
Currently have a 2014 1190 in the garage and it's faultless. Parts aren't an issue.
If you're referencing model specific issues, every manufacturer has experienced similar issues.
Honda CBR Piston rings, BMW S1000RR engines, no manufacturer is immune.
But having to become a detective to determine what the correct sprag clutch is for a particular model because there's no information available or resources kinda leaves a bad taste.
Cheap is great if you accept the cost

Alex@POD

6,448 posts

233 months

Steve Bass said:
Not sure of your point?
My experience of KTM has been without issue.
Currently have a 2014 1190 in the garage and it's faultless. Parts aren't an issue.
If you're referencing model specific issues, every manufacturer has experienced similar issues.
Honda CBR Piston rings, BMW S1000RR engines, no manufacturer is immune.
But having to become a detective to determine what the correct sprag clutch is for a particular model because there's no information available or resources kinda leaves a bad taste.
Cheap is great if you accept the cost
Could it be argued that the likes of CF Moto, Voge, etc, who manufacture engines for a whole range of mainstream manufacturers and use decent components (e.g. Brembo brakes), are a cut above what we'd previously seen from China?

robinh73

Original Poster:

1,170 posts

218 months

I can see both sides of the argument here. The bike that really appeals is the Voge DS900X which is essentially the BMW F900GS. The dealer network is decent, the kit fitted to it is decent (Brembo calipers, KYB forks, Pirelli tyres etc.) and in Spain the sales of this model have pretty much blitzed the Euro competition. Sure, the long term reliability over 4-5 years is an unknown but I really can't see why it would be any different from a more established/perceived quality machine. There was a post on here recently from a guy who had bought a brand new Yamaha from a dealer to discover when home that there was rust on the welds on the frame. I am still extremely tempted, the Voge just seems to tick all the boxes and happens to look pretty damn good too.

Playsatan

583 posts

245 months

Surely it’s about value for money? If you pay European or Japanese prices that comes with the expectation of a better quality product and therefore experience and residual, if you pay a lesser price at the outset should you expect the same?

I think theres a wide, and growing, range of quality in all manufactures but as long as the cost does not exceeds the quality then we should give them a chance. What irks us when people feel they have paid top dollar and received an inferior product ah la the KTM comments.

Biker9090

1,602 posts

55 months

Steve Bass said:
Not sure of your point?
My experience of KTM has been without issue.
Currently have a 2014 1190 in the garage and it's faultless. Parts aren't an issue.
If you're referencing model specific issues, every manufacturer has experienced similar issues.
Honda CBR Piston rings, BMW S1000RR engines, no manufacturer is immune.
But having to become a detective to determine what the correct sprag clutch is for a particular model because there's no information available or resources kinda leaves a bad taste.
Cheap is great if you accept the cost
My point is, that despite being labelled as better quality they are pretty renowned for having a whole host of terrible issues and a manufacturer that doesn't seem to care - or even admit - what the issues are. No, they aren't alone in that but they certainly seem to be one of the worst at the moment.

That Chinese bikes are written off by many people who ride "premium....euro" bikes (and to a much lesser extent Japanese) - despite said "premium" brands having far from a solid reputation for any of the above and many of them actually being made in the Far East and in some cases in the same factory as the Chinese bikes.

archie456

468 posts

240 months

Biker9090 said:
My point is, that despite being labelled as better quality they are pretty renowned for having a whole host of terrible issues
They really aren't, but there seems to be an increasing number of people knocking them based on a relatively small number of 790/890 camshafts.

I had a GS1200 from new which had loads go wrong, which was all fixed under warranty. (Gearbox oil seals, rear drive failure, rear shock failure, heated grips)

I've had KTMs for 12 years now and no have faults to report so far, unless you count TPMS batteries.

Please list the whole host of terrible issues that you refer to.

robinh73

Original Poster:

1,170 posts

218 months

Not wanting to fuel the fire here, despite the fact I started the thread, but my KTM Superduke has been absolutely faultless in the two years I have owned it. I have a friend with a 2018 Superduke GT and that too has been faultless. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. I realise that there are some issues but as has been said, it isn't isolated to KTM.

Bob_Defly

4,963 posts

249 months

Even if a lot of Chinese manufacturers make parts for Jap/Euro manufacturers, there is a difference between Chinese spec steel and aluminium and that spec'd by other OEM's. Anyone who has seen a Chinese steel or aluminium part fail knows what I'm talking about, it looks like a bloody Aero inside.

It's a no from me.

GM182

1,399 posts

243 months

Yesterday (11:31)
quotequote all
Just to add a bit of personal experience. I bought a CFMoto450MT last summer for £5700. I spent about £600 on accessories and sold it for £4900 last month after 3500 miles of enjoyable riding with zero issues. Fueling wasn't great at times but that is a Euro5 issue and fixable. I don't think that depreciation is too bad really but since I decided not to keep it long term I did worry that the depreciation might be heavier if I kept it longer now the supply issues are sorted.

It was a well-built machine and I had confidence it would last pretty well so I would consider Chinese again.

In fact I am considering the Fantic Caballero 500 which has a Zongshen engine and assembled in Italy. Zongshen build more than 1m engines per year. I think they know what they're doing. That said, a quick Google suggests newer engine for 2025 is Italian designed and built but I'd be looking second hand at bikes with the older engine.

robinh73

Original Poster:

1,170 posts

218 months

Yesterday (15:50)
quotequote all
GM182 said:
Just to add a bit of personal experience. I bought a CFMoto450MT last summer for £5700. I spent about £600 on accessories and sold it for £4900 last month after 3500 miles of enjoyable riding with zero issues. Fueling wasn't great at times but that is a Euro5 issue and fixable. I don't think that depreciation is too bad really but since I decided not to keep it long term I did worry that the depreciation might be heavier if I kept it longer now the supply issues are sorted.

It was a well-built machine and I had confidence it would last pretty well so I would consider Chinese again.

In fact I am considering the Fantic Caballero 500 which has a Zongshen engine and assembled in Italy. Zongshen build more than 1m engines per year. I think they know what they're doing. That said, a quick Google suggests newer engine for 2025 is Italian designed and built but I'd be looking second hand at bikes with the older engine.
A Fantic Caballero 500 you say, this is one of those bikes that I genuinely have so much want for! They look incredible and the reviews (both long and short term) are superb. I would be very keen to see your thoughts if and when you got one. The Rally is the particular model that appeals as I think the looks are just right but then there is the new Triumph Scrambler 400XC which will be superb if the other two 400 models they do are anything to go by. The only downside is that no second hand will be available for a bit as it has only just been released.
Anyway, back to the opening topic of mine. I have decided not to change to the Voge. For bo other reason than the PX figure I was quoted on my V Strom was just too low. The Suzuki is brilliant, dull but brilliant and it just doesn't warrant me changing. I have the KTM for fun and frolics. I could buy a Fantic for what it would cost to change and that is tempting I have to say. The fact that the Voge is Chinese wasn't putting me off at all and who knows what I may do in the future, but for now it is not going to happen. Thanks for the input guys.

Linksmas

3,127 posts

233 months

Yesterday (16:32)
quotequote all
robinh73 said:
Anyway, back to the opening topic of mine. I have decided not to change to the Voge. For no other reason than the PX figure I was quoted on my V Strom was just too low. The Suzuki is brilliant, dull but brilliant and it just doesn't warrant me changing. .
Didn't you only recently buy that Strom? What did they offer you? I'm about to take my 2017 650xt to see what I can get against a Himi 450.