When is a car old enough to do your own maintenance?
Discussion
I suggested on a 23 year old Ferrari that a lot of the more manageable jobs like changing the oil could be done at home, someone, quite rightly said, you need to take it to a specialist to show its been kept well with receipts to prove no expense spared for when you want to sell it on.
Since when has changing your own oil been seen as skimping on maintenance? Changing an air filter?
I fully understand taking to a specialist to keep a warranty up but once it’s out of warranty and you’re capable why not do the basic jobs yourself?
Since when has changing your own oil been seen as skimping on maintenance? Changing an air filter?
I fully understand taking to a specialist to keep a warranty up but once it’s out of warranty and you’re capable why not do the basic jobs yourself?
I don't think anyone is suggesting (with any credibility) that changing oils and filters is skimping on maintenance. But ask yourself, "Would I buy something as complex as a Ferrari without full main dealer or specialist history?"
As someone on the Ferrari thread mentioned, an enthusiast would always value a full history very highly. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't do some work yourself, particularly if you plan on keeping it for a while. But don't expect top dollar when you come to sell.
As someone on the Ferrari thread mentioned, an enthusiast would always value a full history very highly. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't do some work yourself, particularly if you plan on keeping it for a while. But don't expect top dollar when you come to sell.
i don't think age matters tbh. would you say the same for a service on a 250gto? how about balancing the carbs on a jag v12?
it wouldn't bother me personally, i'd still buy from you based on observations of your work and discussing the car and the work you have done on it [key one being knowing how to check oil level, many owners don't]. same for any car of any complexity really.
but on one recent ferrari thread the buyer was put off by 2 consecutive MOT's having advisories for tyre wear commensurate with age. that is the mindset that the market has, so going against it is limiting your resale options. even in the scenario above i'd still use the market's expectation to my advantage when making an offer.
it wouldn't bother me personally, i'd still buy from you based on observations of your work and discussing the car and the work you have done on it [key one being knowing how to check oil level, many owners don't]. same for any car of any complexity really.
but on one recent ferrari thread the buyer was put off by 2 consecutive MOT's having advisories for tyre wear commensurate with age. that is the mindset that the market has, so going against it is limiting your resale options. even in the scenario above i'd still use the market's expectation to my advantage when making an offer.
My everyday car (Just a Toyota GT86) is 12 years old, and I do pretty much all my own maintenance. So I would say that it depends more on the owner than the age of the car.
In terms of value retention, it probably depends on the perceived value and complexity of the car in question. No one is going to bat an eyelid at a 1980s Ford Sierra having been self-maintained ... but a self-maintained 1980s Lambo might have a much smaller pool of buyers compared to one with a thick wallet of service history with a marque specialist.
I would suggest that evidence of self-maintenance (receipts/spreadsheet of work done/etc.), along with a fairly regular inspection by a decent specialist, would be enough for the majority of buyers of the majority of cars covered by this forum. Obviously there will always be exceptions.
In terms of value retention, it probably depends on the perceived value and complexity of the car in question. No one is going to bat an eyelid at a 1980s Ford Sierra having been self-maintained ... but a self-maintained 1980s Lambo might have a much smaller pool of buyers compared to one with a thick wallet of service history with a marque specialist.
I would suggest that evidence of self-maintenance (receipts/spreadsheet of work done/etc.), along with a fairly regular inspection by a decent specialist, would be enough for the majority of buyers of the majority of cars covered by this forum. Obviously there will always be exceptions.
Turbobanana said:
But ask yourself, "Would I buy something as complex as a Ferrari without full main dealer or specialist history?"
15 years old max and I agree. But changing the oil on my Maserati (Ferrari engine) is easier than changing it on my old Triumph Stag. Changing the coolant is easier than changing it on my Triumph Stag. Changing the gearbox/diff oil is easier than changing it on the Triumph Stag. Ferraris still work on the same principle, a hole for filling and a hole for draining the oil. I even trust myself over dealers by taking the coil packs off until I’ve spun the engine over on the key to get oil pressure, not sure they would do that at the dealers.
I've always done as much DIY as possible even with a Ducati that wasn't very old.
When I work on something, I tend to clean stuff while it's apart, and do any odd jobs, check for corrosion etc.
Which means it takes me more hours, but is worth it in the long run.
I'd say some vehicles attract DIY enthusiasts, some attract people who believe in leaving things to 'experts', even if those experts are apprentoids who don't care. If re-sale value is well up your list of things to care about, you might want to have an idea of who might buy your vehicle.
Currently, I'd take my shed to a local place to have well defined things done, like new brake pads and discs, because I can't get enthusiastic about getting cold and dirty. Anything vague or open ended, I'll look into myself, like chasing wiring faults the other day.
When I work on something, I tend to clean stuff while it's apart, and do any odd jobs, check for corrosion etc.
Which means it takes me more hours, but is worth it in the long run.
I'd say some vehicles attract DIY enthusiasts, some attract people who believe in leaving things to 'experts', even if those experts are apprentoids who don't care. If re-sale value is well up your list of things to care about, you might want to have an idea of who might buy your vehicle.
Currently, I'd take my shed to a local place to have well defined things done, like new brake pads and discs, because I can't get enthusiastic about getting cold and dirty. Anything vague or open ended, I'll look into myself, like chasing wiring faults the other day.
I’m not sure that age is the main consideration. It’s the complexity of the car ( and its value if it’s something exotic) . For old fashioned servicing, as in the domestic garage or drive ( always on a Sunday morning), there is much to be said for an old Beetle, Morris Minor or a crude and basic Euro hatch. But you might not like the car!
restoman said:
Depends upon your abilities.
Definitely and Lester H makes some good points about how complex the car is. A friend has been doing some engine work on an old Porsche Cayenne V8 and that is not fun by all accounts. So picking a car that is reasonably straightforward is a plus.M138 said:
I suggested on a 23 year old Ferrari that a lot of the more manageable jobs like changing the oil could be done at home, someone, quite rightly said, you need to take it to a specialist to show its been kept well with receipts to prove no expense spared for when you want to sell it on.
Since when has changing your own oil been seen as skimping on maintenance? Changing an air filter?
I fully understand taking to a specialist to keep a warranty up but once it s out of warranty and you re capable why not do the basic jobs yourself?
Exotics are probably an exception, because of their rarefied market and prices. For most mid market stuff, a service history helps, maybe main dealer for a few early years and then an independent (with evidence). Further down the line traders don’t ask and anything is a bonus. When some of these dealers ( not all) are selling, of course, they can be very vague about such history. As I said earlier, the simpler the car, the better for home servicing.Since when has changing your own oil been seen as skimping on maintenance? Changing an air filter?
I fully understand taking to a specialist to keep a warranty up but once it s out of warranty and you re capable why not do the basic jobs yourself?
I've a 26 year old TVR and do most maintenance / repairs myself unless it is beyond me, like driveshaft gaiters or engine mountings. I've done everything electrical, thankfully! I changed the oil and filter myself 3k miles after the last time, but it took over 2 years just to do that mileage. This year, I had a service at a specialist and the rear fuel hoses were starting to split and perish, they couldn't be seen without a ramp.
It was a cheap fix and not only prevented a breakdown, but possibly dangerous being close to the exhaust. It's worth any classic car getting a periodical check but if your can does low mileage, I wouldn't indulge with a service every 12 months. If you have a top end car and the pockets of Croesus, maybe.
I'd do any repair myself if a car was out of warranty, if feasible, keeping receipts of parts bought.
It was a cheap fix and not only prevented a breakdown, but possibly dangerous being close to the exhaust. It's worth any classic car getting a periodical check but if your can does low mileage, I wouldn't indulge with a service every 12 months. If you have a top end car and the pockets of Croesus, maybe.
I'd do any repair myself if a car was out of warranty, if feasible, keeping receipts of parts bought.
sixor8 said:
I've a 26 year old TVR and do most maintenance / repairs myself unless it is beyond me, like driveshaft gaiters or engine mountings. I've done everything electrical, thankfully! I changed the oil and filter myself 3k miles after the last time, but it took over 2 years just to do that mileage. This year, I had a service at a specialist and the rear fuel hoses were starting to split and perish, they couldn't be seen without a ramp.
It was a cheap fix and not only prevented a breakdown, but possibly dangerous being close to the exhaust. It's worth any classic car getting a periodical check but if your can does low mileage, I wouldn't indulge with a service every 12 months. If you have a top end car and the pockets of Croesus, maybe.
I'd do any repair myself if a car was out of warranty, if feasible, keeping receipts of parts bought.
Well done sir! IIt was a cheap fix and not only prevented a breakdown, but possibly dangerous being close to the exhaust. It's worth any classic car getting a periodical check but if your can does low mileage, I wouldn't indulge with a service every 12 months. If you have a top end car and the pockets of Croesus, maybe.
I'd do any repair myself if a car was out of warranty, if feasible, keeping receipts of parts bought.
I wholeheartedly agree with your position and have to say there are certain things for our 52yr old TR6 that I refer to a local very well respected specialist to do. The main reason is he has a hoist and is 20yrs younger so things like a full clutch removal/replacement as well as fully replacing all fuel lines was beyond what I could do in my garage.
I have a long list of projects I can & will do this winter though before we head further afield in the spring it is already booked in for a yearly look-over at said specialist. At present the only thing I have on the list for him is replacing all 4 wheels wheelbearings which is a right pig of a job without a number of specialist tools.
M138 said:
Turbobanana said:
But ask yourself, "Would I buy something as complex as a Ferrari without full main dealer or specialist history?"
15 years old max and I agree. But changing the oil on my Maserati (Ferrari engine) is easier than changing it on my old Triumph Stag. Changing the coolant is easier than changing it on my Triumph Stag. Changing the gearbox/diff oil is easier than changing it on the Triumph Stag. Ferraris still work on the same principle, a hole for filling and a hole for draining the oil. I even trust myself over dealers by taking the coil packs off until I ve spun the engine over on the key to get oil pressure, not sure they would do that at the dealers.
My cars have what might be deemed by some as having patchy service histories, due to the length of time they have to stand in the garage for various reasons. I'm not a subscriber to the idea that you service a car, then it stands for a year, then it has to be serviced again. The oil in the engine that's stood for a year might well have stood for a year in a bottle on a shelf, so changing one for the other achieves nothing and seems ridiculous.
My MR2 is a potential show winner, but in terms of time it's massively overdue a service, but has only covered 2k miles since the last one.
My Porsche gets serviced when I feel it should be, in mileage terms earlier than scheduled, but over in time terms. Same with the Evo. They've all been in my ownership for a considerable time, and none appear to have suffered from my somewhat freestyle approach to maintenance. I have people pestering me to sell all of them, so it clearly doesn't affect the outlook of those who understand that they're well looked after because they know me and the cars, but I can see strangers turning up their nose.
My MR2 is a potential show winner, but in terms of time it's massively overdue a service, but has only covered 2k miles since the last one.
My Porsche gets serviced when I feel it should be, in mileage terms earlier than scheduled, but over in time terms. Same with the Evo. They've all been in my ownership for a considerable time, and none appear to have suffered from my somewhat freestyle approach to maintenance. I have people pestering me to sell all of them, so it clearly doesn't affect the outlook of those who understand that they're well looked after because they know me and the cars, but I can see strangers turning up their nose.
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