Discussion
I know this has been asked many times across many forums but I thought I'd write this any way and pertain it to my own situation.
I've never owned a GT car before. From owning a few other cars and taking my likes and dislikes for them, I've come to the conclusion that a 991 GT3 of some kind would be ideally suited for me.
I've always yearned to find a weekend car that I'm happy with, I've thoroughly liked previous cars but pretty much as soon as I get in to them I'm planning whats next.
Changing every year is great for ticking boxes and helps with discovering what you like and don't like, but it can get pretty expensive and I never feel like I get to know the characteristics of any car as much as I'd like to.
I want to live in the moment more and be happy with the car I'm driving (probably more of a personal issue than a car issue)
I'm considering 991.1 GT3's and 991.1 GT3 RS's.
I will likely never track the car as I have a dedicated track car of much lower value, never commute in the car and unlikely to go on any multi day tours in it.
I'm well aware of the 3.8's reliability and would only consider a G6 car with Porsche warranty. I also realize that most people will probably say given my lack of track plans and my budget, that a 991.2 GT3 is the way to go. I'm not a fan of the look of the .2, I think the .1's are much prettier from the front and rear. When spending this amount I need to be very happy with the appearance of the car. Also I don't want a manual so that aspect wouldn't attract me.
The very top end of my budget will get me in to a middle of the market .1 RS.
I presume the GT3 will be every bit of the same driving experience on the road and will save me £45k, but I think the I will get much more pleasure out of the ownership of the RS, through the added theater, looks, cool factor and head turning.
In an ideal world you'd experience the GT3 then move to the RS, but there is added cost there and the potential to not enjoy the GT3 ownership as the entire time I'm just counting down until I can swap it for a car I could have owned to start with.
Regarding residuals, both cars seem to have dropped by a similar percentage in the last 12-18 months. Will they both stay or carry on at the same rate?
Will the GT3's engine problems and it's upcoming 15th birthday where it can no longer get a Porsche warranty cause them to depreciate faster than the RS?
It's a very nice problem to have I know, I'd love experience from people who've owned both cars.
I have also considered 718 GT4's, Spyder RS's and GT4 RS's, but for various reasons none of these do it for me like the 911.
I've never owned a GT car before. From owning a few other cars and taking my likes and dislikes for them, I've come to the conclusion that a 991 GT3 of some kind would be ideally suited for me.
I've always yearned to find a weekend car that I'm happy with, I've thoroughly liked previous cars but pretty much as soon as I get in to them I'm planning whats next.
Changing every year is great for ticking boxes and helps with discovering what you like and don't like, but it can get pretty expensive and I never feel like I get to know the characteristics of any car as much as I'd like to.
I want to live in the moment more and be happy with the car I'm driving (probably more of a personal issue than a car issue)
I'm considering 991.1 GT3's and 991.1 GT3 RS's.
I will likely never track the car as I have a dedicated track car of much lower value, never commute in the car and unlikely to go on any multi day tours in it.
I'm well aware of the 3.8's reliability and would only consider a G6 car with Porsche warranty. I also realize that most people will probably say given my lack of track plans and my budget, that a 991.2 GT3 is the way to go. I'm not a fan of the look of the .2, I think the .1's are much prettier from the front and rear. When spending this amount I need to be very happy with the appearance of the car. Also I don't want a manual so that aspect wouldn't attract me.
The very top end of my budget will get me in to a middle of the market .1 RS.
I presume the GT3 will be every bit of the same driving experience on the road and will save me £45k, but I think the I will get much more pleasure out of the ownership of the RS, through the added theater, looks, cool factor and head turning.
In an ideal world you'd experience the GT3 then move to the RS, but there is added cost there and the potential to not enjoy the GT3 ownership as the entire time I'm just counting down until I can swap it for a car I could have owned to start with.
Regarding residuals, both cars seem to have dropped by a similar percentage in the last 12-18 months. Will they both stay or carry on at the same rate?
Will the GT3's engine problems and it's upcoming 15th birthday where it can no longer get a Porsche warranty cause them to depreciate faster than the RS?
It's a very nice problem to have I know, I'd love experience from people who've owned both cars.
I have also considered 718 GT4's, Spyder RS's and GT4 RS's, but for various reasons none of these do it for me like the 911.
I own a 991.1 GT3 RS. It's been at my local Porsche dealer waiting for an engine replacement for the last few months after a valvetrain failure, which will be covered under extended warranty.
The car has done approx 60k kms. At around 30k kms it had a Manthey engine rebuild which supposedly included all the updated parts.
I can renew the extended warranty for another few years and it's very cheap (around 1k/year).
I don't think anyone but Porsche has stats about the number of 991.1 3RS engine failures. They were supposedly better than the original non-RS 3.8s, but it's possible that now the 3.8s have been improved to be as reliable as the 4.0 RS engines.
Porsche appeared to be quite surprised by my valvetrain failure, but maybe this is some kind of entrenched method acting.
Anyway, I absolutely love the car, it's superb on track, it sounds absolutely magnificent and it's a real event every time I drive it on the road.
However, being without the car for months has not been fun. My alternatives at this point are:
1. Keep it in the knowledge that it might eventually need another engine. Drive it somewhat conversatively (e.g. manual shifting on track rather than full auto, because part of the issue is how close the auto shifts are to the redline).
2. Trade it for a .2 3RS, objectively a better car. I have mixed feelings about this, because I'd be buying a car which may have been thrashed from cold and hammered off the redline its entire life, vs keeping a car with a completely fresh engine. The .2 engine isn't bombproof either, but I've read that although the valvetrain design is quite similar, they tend to let go at the bottom end.
3. Trade it for a 992.1 GT3. This would be a fairly smart decision, because those cars pretty much match the on-track performance of the 991 3RSs, but with softer springs that give a better on-road experience. Unfortunately IMO the 992 lacks character for normal pottering around (and even on track) compared to the 991. It's possible that character and risk of engine failures are correlated. I've been in a 992 3RS on track and didn't love that either, it's a fairground ride but doesn't sizzle my lardons.
4. Buy a non-GT 911 or a sorted Mclaren. These would both be sensible decisions but again, I would miss the Porsche GT car character.
Is this a world you want to enter?
The car has done approx 60k kms. At around 30k kms it had a Manthey engine rebuild which supposedly included all the updated parts.
I can renew the extended warranty for another few years and it's very cheap (around 1k/year).
I don't think anyone but Porsche has stats about the number of 991.1 3RS engine failures. They were supposedly better than the original non-RS 3.8s, but it's possible that now the 3.8s have been improved to be as reliable as the 4.0 RS engines.
Porsche appeared to be quite surprised by my valvetrain failure, but maybe this is some kind of entrenched method acting.
Anyway, I absolutely love the car, it's superb on track, it sounds absolutely magnificent and it's a real event every time I drive it on the road.
However, being without the car for months has not been fun. My alternatives at this point are:
1. Keep it in the knowledge that it might eventually need another engine. Drive it somewhat conversatively (e.g. manual shifting on track rather than full auto, because part of the issue is how close the auto shifts are to the redline).
2. Trade it for a .2 3RS, objectively a better car. I have mixed feelings about this, because I'd be buying a car which may have been thrashed from cold and hammered off the redline its entire life, vs keeping a car with a completely fresh engine. The .2 engine isn't bombproof either, but I've read that although the valvetrain design is quite similar, they tend to let go at the bottom end.
3. Trade it for a 992.1 GT3. This would be a fairly smart decision, because those cars pretty much match the on-track performance of the 991 3RSs, but with softer springs that give a better on-road experience. Unfortunately IMO the 992 lacks character for normal pottering around (and even on track) compared to the 991. It's possible that character and risk of engine failures are correlated. I've been in a 992 3RS on track and didn't love that either, it's a fairground ride but doesn't sizzle my lardons.
4. Buy a non-GT 911 or a sorted Mclaren. These would both be sensible decisions but again, I would miss the Porsche GT car character.
Is this a world you want to enter?
These are the modifications made to the 991.2 engine over the last G6 version of the 991.1 engine.
Hydraulic valve lifters were replaced with solid finger lifters and the max revs of the 991.1 GT3RS was lifted from 8800 rpm back to 9000rpm.
If you look at Rennlist you will see that contrary to popular opinion even the latest 991.1 GT3RS has suffered some engine failures (GT£3's had earlier version engines and many were replaced with a 10 year guarantee that will be running out on many cars extendable to 15 years) ... and it is interesting that Porsche have insisted on an upgrade to Mobil 1 C40 GT (red top) oil on all the later GT3 engined cars ... (from Green top C40 for cars with particulate filters and the previous Gold top A40 oil for pre-particulate filter cars).
On the 991.2 GT3RS the 2018 model year cars had single throttle body and no particulate filters whilst the 2019 model year cars had independent throttle bodies and particulate filters ... worth checking if you want one of these cars. I preferred an earlier car without the particulate filter ....
I hope this helps ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 24th October 10:06
Following with interest.
I have considered a 991.1 GT3 and they now seem a lot of car for the money. Quite feasible to get a G6 engined car with extended warranty which is peace of mind for the next couple of years. My issue is beyond this though. We are not that far away from 2026 and, as it stands, Porsche will only allow extended warranty upto 2029. I haven't heard any rumblings as to what will happen beyond this, or that the known specialists are working on a solution, and this would bother me going forward.
Without a solution, I can see a number of .1 GT3's being sold just before the extended warranty period runs outs. What will this do to values, I'm not sure. Not something I'm prepared to risk personally, which is a shame, as I really want one.
I have considered a 991.1 GT3 and they now seem a lot of car for the money. Quite feasible to get a G6 engined car with extended warranty which is peace of mind for the next couple of years. My issue is beyond this though. We are not that far away from 2026 and, as it stands, Porsche will only allow extended warranty upto 2029. I haven't heard any rumblings as to what will happen beyond this, or that the known specialists are working on a solution, and this would bother me going forward.
Without a solution, I can see a number of .1 GT3's being sold just before the extended warranty period runs outs. What will this do to values, I'm not sure. Not something I'm prepared to risk personally, which is a shame, as I really want one.
I am told that RPM Technik are establishing a facility to rebuild failed GT3 engines ... they mentioned particularly 991.1 GT3 / GT3RS ... whether the gen2 mods are an option, who knows ?
The parts are expensive so I am guessing that £20k would be a minimum likely cost ... but look at the difference between .1 and .2 values ... maybe this works since if well looked after all engines may still have a very good life in them ???
The parts are expensive so I am guessing that £20k would be a minimum likely cost ... but look at the difference between .1 and .2 values ... maybe this works since if well looked after all engines may still have a very good life in them ???
ChrisW. said:
I am told that RPM Technik are establishing a facility to rebuild failed GT3 engines ... they mentioned particularly 991.1 GT3 / GT3RS ... whether the gen2 mods are an option, who knows ?
The parts are expensive so I am guessing that £20k would be a minimum likely cost ... but look at the difference between .1 and .2 values ... maybe this works since if well looked after all engines may still have a very good life in them ???
My 991.1 3RS's Manthey rebuild was around €30k parts and €5k labour (all incl. German VAT), but that excludes Porsche dealer labour for removal/refitting the engine.The parts are expensive so I am guessing that £20k would be a minimum likely cost ... but look at the difference between .1 and .2 values ... maybe this works since if well looked after all engines may still have a very good life in them ???
What's missing from this picture is preventative maintenance, obvs you want to catch issues before they result in total failure.
The Americans on rennlist seem big into oil diagnostics. Does this happen much in the UK?
https://www.clubmotul.co.uk/r/oil-analysis-kit/68
Yes ... as above ... regular oil and filter changes are to me the cheapest wear ameliorator that I can imagine. However ... oil analysis of "new" oil tells nothing so there is a balance ...
Yes ... as above ... regular oil and filter changes are to me the cheapest wear ameliorator that I can imagine. However ... oil analysis of "new" oil tells nothing so there is a balance ...
Is anyone aware of G6 failures in the UK?
Porsche Bristol claimed that Porsche went to town with the G6 iteration and performance should be on par with 991.2 engines with possibly better mid range.
My personal experience on tracks with longer straights like Bedford is that my stock 991.1 G6 does seem to gain on 991.2 but this could be due to various other reasons. Compared to an E or F motor, the G6 feels significantly more punchy and it also sounds much better.
Porsche Bristol claimed that Porsche went to town with the G6 iteration and performance should be on par with 991.2 engines with possibly better mid range.
My personal experience on tracks with longer straights like Bedford is that my stock 991.1 G6 does seem to gain on 991.2 but this could be due to various other reasons. Compared to an E or F motor, the G6 feels significantly more punchy and it also sounds much better.
I have owned both cars 991.1 GT3 & 991.1 GT3RS (still own the RS) the RS in my opinion feels more of an occasion when jumping in it and I prefer the RS styling and the way it sits on the road.
I bought both cars from Porsche main dealer and never had any issues with the 991.1 gt3, I owned it for around 2 years and done 10k miles.
I have owned my RS for nearly 2 years and done around 8k miles. I had an engine replacement from Porsche main dealer due to a failed crank, which is very rare. I think when buying any GT car 991 or 992 just make sure you get Porsche warranty on it. The Porsche warranty is one of the best I’ve ever experienced and gives complete peace of mind.
End of the day these cars aren’t bullet proof and can fail. Just make sure you’re covered.
I am selling my RS due to house renovations though but will buy another when funds allow.
I bought both cars from Porsche main dealer and never had any issues with the 991.1 gt3, I owned it for around 2 years and done 10k miles.
I have owned my RS for nearly 2 years and done around 8k miles. I had an engine replacement from Porsche main dealer due to a failed crank, which is very rare. I think when buying any GT car 991 or 992 just make sure you get Porsche warranty on it. The Porsche warranty is one of the best I’ve ever experienced and gives complete peace of mind.
End of the day these cars aren’t bullet proof and can fail. Just make sure you’re covered.
I am selling my RS due to house renovations though but will buy another when funds allow.
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