High mileage EVs (case in point: Mercedes EQS)
Discussion
Due to a change in professional setup, we're looking at getting a car that will be used as our daily driver.
Having spent a little bit of time (*let's be honest: after spending hours on the typical websites*), one of the options is a high mileage Mercedes EQS (aound 90k miles). I like the car in itself and definitely the range it should have.
My main questions are around the impact of the mileage on battery life and other wear (which I expect to be significantly less than on anything with a combustion engine).
Does anyone here have knowledge or experience of high mileage EVs and maybe even some tips/tricks/do's/don'ts?
FYI, the daily up to now is a Mercedes EQE so I am quite familiar with the platform and the daily life with an EV.
(and I expect an EQS to bring the good points of an EQE and some improvements in the sense of air suspension, turning rear wheels - both of which my EQE doesn't have - and an even longer range by ~50-60 miles)
Thanks in advance!
Having spent a little bit of time (*let's be honest: after spending hours on the typical websites*), one of the options is a high mileage Mercedes EQS (aound 90k miles). I like the car in itself and definitely the range it should have.
My main questions are around the impact of the mileage on battery life and other wear (which I expect to be significantly less than on anything with a combustion engine).
Does anyone here have knowledge or experience of high mileage EVs and maybe even some tips/tricks/do's/don'ts?
FYI, the daily up to now is a Mercedes EQE so I am quite familiar with the platform and the daily life with an EV.
(and I expect an EQS to bring the good points of an EQE and some improvements in the sense of air suspension, turning rear wheels - both of which my EQE doesn't have - and an even longer range by ~50-60 miles)
Thanks in advance!
Are you buying from a dealer or privately? It seems that high mileage EVs are really performing much better that perhaps some expected! But as a definite to be sure I’d be doing a state of health check on the battery of the car you’re looking for.
Without being too alarmist - there are “some” of these Mercedes which seem to be a small fire risk. There are more than enough examples now. I myself drive a BMW EV so this isn’t an anti EV conspiracy comment, it’s actually a “thing” and enough to put me off buying one.
Without being too alarmist - there are “some” of these Mercedes which seem to be a small fire risk. There are more than enough examples now. I myself drive a BMW EV so this isn’t an anti EV conspiracy comment, it’s actually a “thing” and enough to put me off buying one.
Cristio Nasser said:
Can the dealer tell you what the battery state of health is? If it s still decent, and will provide the range you need, go for it. If not, then adjust your offer to suit, or find another.
It's with a private seller, but I have the intention to have a dealer perform a State of Health check on the battery before making any decisions.Church of Noise said:
Cristio Nasser said:
Can the dealer tell you what the battery state of health is? If it s still decent, and will provide the range you need, go for it. If not, then adjust your offer to suit, or find another.
It's with a private seller, but I have the intention to have a dealer perform a State of Health check on the battery before making any decisions.
My Citroen e-C4 showed at 90.5% at ~40k miles when I got it, down to 90.0% at @52k when I sold it. I'd expect better durability from the Merc, I'd hope for / expect c. 90% battery health at approaching 100k miles.
I have the sense that rapid charging causes battery degradation; so how the car's been used is probably a factor; a younger car at the same mileage may have had more rapid charges.
No-one quite seems to be able to pin down whether service history is a requirement for the 8yr/100k miles battery warranty, so you may want to check that carefully before buying if you care.
Generally if you have a battery health check when buying, you're likely to be fine as degradation tends to slow down over time..
I have the sense that rapid charging causes battery degradation; so how the car's been used is probably a factor; a younger car at the same mileage may have had more rapid charges.
No-one quite seems to be able to pin down whether service history is a requirement for the 8yr/100k miles battery warranty, so you may want to check that carefully before buying if you care.
Generally if you have a battery health check when buying, you're likely to be fine as degradation tends to slow down over time..
As an EQC owner I was disappointed with a change in the warranty T&C’s
“Rules relating to PHEV and BEV Battery Certificate Warranty
Should a technical malfunction of the HVB component(s) arise during the respective PHEV and BEV Battery Certificate Warranty periods, subject to these terms, the
warranty holder is entitled to have the malfunction to the HVB repaired or replaced at no additional cost. The extent of the claim for repair regarding cost is limited to the current value of the vehicle at the time the malfunction occurred.
In one case I have read about in mainland Europe the Mercedes dealer is quoting €60k to supply and install a new battery and valuing the car at €30k, so want €30k under warranty!
I can see how this would make people think twice on a used electric Mercedes.
“Rules relating to PHEV and BEV Battery Certificate Warranty
Should a technical malfunction of the HVB component(s) arise during the respective PHEV and BEV Battery Certificate Warranty periods, subject to these terms, the
warranty holder is entitled to have the malfunction to the HVB repaired or replaced at no additional cost. The extent of the claim for repair regarding cost is limited to the current value of the vehicle at the time the malfunction occurred.
In one case I have read about in mainland Europe the Mercedes dealer is quoting €60k to supply and install a new battery and valuing the car at €30k, so want €30k under warranty!
I can see how this would make people think twice on a used electric Mercedes.
Indeed... that clause basically makes the warranty worthless, given that Mercedes can claim the cost of a battery replacement is whatever they say it is.
I don't see how Mercedes could claim in court that a change in warranty wording in 2024 would apply to vehicles they sold prior to that date.
I also don't see how Mercedes can claim that such a limited warranty fits the legal requirement for all EV manufacturers to guarantee their batteries for 8 years / 100k miles, in order to count them against their EV mandate quota.
But both of these arguments would need someone to test them in court, which AFAIK hasn't happened yet.
https://www.mbeqclub.com/threads/eqc-battery-warra...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectricVehiclesUK/commen...
I guess to some extent if OP is buying a car on 90k miles with a health check at the time of purchase, this possibly isn't the biggest concern, as the chance of the battery going from fine to <70% or bust in the first 10k miles of ownership is relatively low, but it's a consideration.
I would also ask the seller how they have been charging it?
I.e. use home charger only up to 80% or constantly putting it on the high power chargers when out on the road again 80% or 100%, 90k miles is a lot of charge cycles and unlikely to be at home.
For me, buying a used EV is all about the battery and how it has been looked after or not, the EV equivalent of ragging a cold ic engine.
I.e. use home charger only up to 80% or constantly putting it on the high power chargers when out on the road again 80% or 100%, 90k miles is a lot of charge cycles and unlikely to be at home.
For me, buying a used EV is all about the battery and how it has been looked after or not, the EV equivalent of ragging a cold ic engine.
The battery wouldn't worry me. E en without access to diagnostics and reasonable test drive will give you a good idea of the condition and I'd expect it to be pretty good, atleast 90% of the new real world range.
I'd be paying more attention to things like suspension components, I guess they're expensive on an EQS and more likely to have a 100k life than the battery.
I'd be paying more attention to things like suspension components, I guess they're expensive on an EQS and more likely to have a 100k life than the battery.
My current daily Tesla has just ticked over the 150k mark. The battery is at about 90% which in practice means a loss of about 7kWh usable range (or about 30-35 miles).
I had a Kia e-Niro pass though a couple of months ago with 170k on it which had 98% state of health. I've even got a 15-reg LEAF about at the moment with 70k on the clock with 88% health which if you believe people in their bedrooms on YouTube isn't possible.
Obviously do check it and get a figure and don't forget all the normal car stuff to check. EVs aren't different to any other car once you ignore the power train aspect.
I had a Kia e-Niro pass though a couple of months ago with 170k on it which had 98% state of health. I've even got a 15-reg LEAF about at the moment with 70k on the clock with 88% health which if you believe people in their bedrooms on YouTube isn't possible.
Obviously do check it and get a figure and don't forget all the normal car stuff to check. EVs aren't different to any other car once you ignore the power train aspect.
barryrs said:
As an EQC owner I was disappointed with a change in the warranty T&C s
Rules relating to PHEV and BEV Battery Certificate Warranty
Should a technical malfunction of the HVB component(s) arise during the respective PHEV and BEV Battery Certificate Warranty periods, subject to these terms, the
warranty holder is entitled to have the malfunction to the HVB repaired or replaced at no additional cost. The extent of the claim for repair regarding cost is limited to the current value of the vehicle at the time the malfunction occurred.
In one case I have read about in mainland Europe the Mercedes dealer is quoting 60k to supply and install a new battery and valuing the car at 30k, so want 30k under warranty!
I can see how this would make people think twice on a used electric Mercedes.
Doesn't that mean they'd just buy the rotting remains from the customer for 30k?Rules relating to PHEV and BEV Battery Certificate Warranty
Should a technical malfunction of the HVB component(s) arise during the respective PHEV and BEV Battery Certificate Warranty periods, subject to these terms, the
warranty holder is entitled to have the malfunction to the HVB repaired or replaced at no additional cost. The extent of the claim for repair regarding cost is limited to the current value of the vehicle at the time the malfunction occurred.
In one case I have read about in mainland Europe the Mercedes dealer is quoting 60k to supply and install a new battery and valuing the car at 30k, so want 30k under warranty!
I can see how this would make people think twice on a used electric Mercedes.
It's quite common in industry for warranties on batteries (and other components!) to be along the line of 'if it dies 9 years into a 10 year warranty, you get 10% off the replacement'. Or 'you get 10% of your money back'.
OutInTheShed said:
Doesn't that mean they'd just buy the rotting remains from the customer for 30k?
It's quite common in industry for warranties on batteries (and other components!) to be along the line of 'if it dies 9 years into a 10 year warranty, you get 10% off the replacement'. Or 'you get 10% of your money back'.
I'd certainly be asking them to sell me an equivalent car for the price they are quoting...and let them keep the old one. It's quite common in industry for warranties on batteries (and other components!) to be along the line of 'if it dies 9 years into a 10 year warranty, you get 10% off the replacement'. Or 'you get 10% of your money back'.
I don’t think the car valuation is the issue (EQC’s have tanked even with the £9k discount I got) it’s the overinflated replacement cost.
I have a family member that used to work for Mercedes and the cost price for a replacement EQC battery was £22k a year or two ago.
It seems to me that Mercedes are simply weaselling out of their original warranty claims. Whereas a couple of months ago they replaced suspension components on a 4 year old car that I would have assumed were consumable!
I have a family member that used to work for Mercedes and the cost price for a replacement EQC battery was £22k a year or two ago.
It seems to me that Mercedes are simply weaselling out of their original warranty claims. Whereas a couple of months ago they replaced suspension components on a 4 year old car that I would have assumed were consumable!
I think how reliable an ICE vehicle is during its service life is very well understood and any warranties given provide a reasonable balance between manufacturers and the customers who buy their vehicles.
EV's in this respect are still new technology and it is early days in building the reliability knowledge and evidence base.
Tesla didn't starting selling volume in the UK until about 2014 when the Model S arrived, the Nissan Leaf arrived in 2011 so these vehicles are now just out of warranty but not seemingly demonstrating major problems judging by the lack of stories in the press.
This points to these batteries being over-engineered to ensure reliability, safety, etc, it will be the later battery generations where costs have been stripped out that will start causing warranty claims and showing SoH degradation.
The small battery SoH degradations of the first generation vehicles are effectively the 'honeymoon' period, as prices come down come I would expect to see bigger SoH degradations and warranty claims.
EV's in this respect are still new technology and it is early days in building the reliability knowledge and evidence base.
Tesla didn't starting selling volume in the UK until about 2014 when the Model S arrived, the Nissan Leaf arrived in 2011 so these vehicles are now just out of warranty but not seemingly demonstrating major problems judging by the lack of stories in the press.
This points to these batteries being over-engineered to ensure reliability, safety, etc, it will be the later battery generations where costs have been stripped out that will start causing warranty claims and showing SoH degradation.
The small battery SoH degradations of the first generation vehicles are effectively the 'honeymoon' period, as prices come down come I would expect to see bigger SoH degradations and warranty claims.
barryrs said:
I don t think the car valuation is the issue (EQC s have tanked even with the £9k discount I got) it s the overinflated replacement cost.
I have a family member that used to work for Mercedes and the cost price for a replacement EQC battery was £22k a year or two ago.
It seems to me that Mercedes are simply weaselling out of their original warranty claims. Whereas a couple of months ago they replaced suspension components on a 4 year old car that I would have assumed were consumable!
I noticed the same with Mercedes, I had 3 of them, all from dealers and all 3 years old or less for a number of years until recently.I have a family member that used to work for Mercedes and the cost price for a replacement EQC battery was £22k a year or two ago.
It seems to me that Mercedes are simply weaselling out of their original warranty claims. Whereas a couple of months ago they replaced suspension components on a 4 year old car that I would have assumed were consumable!
My last Mercedes was a 2020 e class, it will be the last Mercedes I ever buy.
The headlight failed and they said it was £2500 and the warranty had been rejected as I couldn’t prove the front of the car hadn’t been reversed in to - I pushed back and they did fund the claim eventually. But many would have backed down.
Second was the steering wheel material was worn through in some areas, the car only had 33k miles. They suggested I might be using hand cream and this could cause the issue, as “wear and tear”. So you are expected to spend £2500 on a steering wheel every 3 years?
I cut my losses and traded in the car - I’ll never go back to Mercedes, it feels they have money issues and their quality and service is dropping. It’s no longer “premium”.
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