Repatriating a UK car from Portugal
Discussion
Can anyone help me assist my bureaucracy-phobic step-father?
He relocated to rural Portugal about 10 years ago, taking his UK registered early-2000's VW Passat with him (leaving it UK registered/plated etc). After a few years, the car became surplus to requirement and was parked up and has been for several years (I'm told it could be 'got going again' but i don't know the extent of that, a battery at least. Plus, it would have no tax/insurance/MOT).
The Portuguese plod have written to him saying that it's been in the country far too long, and should either be officially imported or removed from the country. Apparently, the car can't be scrapped in Portugal as its not registered there. Importation would be in excess of £10k too (I'm told), so is uneconomical for what is effectively a scrapper. This leaves getting the car back here, most likely just to scrap it.
All he wants is for this problem to go away, but accepts that he should have dealt with this properly, previously. He has engaged with what he describes as a "Customs Broker" in Portugal to help sort this out. They are, he says, acting in his interest and are getting costs to have it transported back to the UK. Somehow the Portuguese police have the V5, albeit that is being sent to me (in the UK). I've been asked to identify a similar Customs Broker in the UK to help manage the process 'this end' (but do not yet know what that entails).
As I see it:
Any guidance, corrections, suggestions gratefully received.
He relocated to rural Portugal about 10 years ago, taking his UK registered early-2000's VW Passat with him (leaving it UK registered/plated etc). After a few years, the car became surplus to requirement and was parked up and has been for several years (I'm told it could be 'got going again' but i don't know the extent of that, a battery at least. Plus, it would have no tax/insurance/MOT).
The Portuguese plod have written to him saying that it's been in the country far too long, and should either be officially imported or removed from the country. Apparently, the car can't be scrapped in Portugal as its not registered there. Importation would be in excess of £10k too (I'm told), so is uneconomical for what is effectively a scrapper. This leaves getting the car back here, most likely just to scrap it.
All he wants is for this problem to go away, but accepts that he should have dealt with this properly, previously. He has engaged with what he describes as a "Customs Broker" in Portugal to help sort this out. They are, he says, acting in his interest and are getting costs to have it transported back to the UK. Somehow the Portuguese police have the V5, albeit that is being sent to me (in the UK). I've been asked to identify a similar Customs Broker in the UK to help manage the process 'this end' (but do not yet know what that entails).
As I see it:
- The car just needs to leave Portugal, but abandoning it in Spain / France is unacceptable for various reasons
- It can't be registered anywhere more convenient, due to excessive cost
- It can't be scrapped anywhere but the UK, as it's registered here
- It could be driven back here, albeit without tax/insurance/MOT (i.e., no)
- It could be transported back (cost as yet unknown)
- The Portuguese police I guess need proof that it has been removed from their country (is that what the Portuguese Customs guy will do?)
- Other than to simply 'receive' the car (either at the dock, or at my house) I'm not sure what the UK Customs Broker will actually do?
- Once it's back, I can see if it is a genuine scrapper, or could be revived.
Any guidance, corrections, suggestions gratefully received.
If it was still UK registered what's it got to do with Portugal? How do they even know it's still there if it's not on the road?
One wonders why the authorities have written to him. Is it parked outside the front of the house or something?
Who says it can't be scrapped in Portugal? Is it scrappers saying they can't crush it because it's got no local paperwork? If so, just sell it "spares or repairs" or whatever.
One wonders why the authorities have written to him. Is it parked outside the front of the house or something?
Who says it can't be scrapped in Portugal? Is it scrappers saying they can't crush it because it's got no local paperwork? If so, just sell it "spares or repairs" or whatever.
andy43 said:
Afaik with a registration document you can scrap any foreign car in Portugal
I assume you mean 'any registration document'? This would seem to be the ideal solution in my view, but I'm told it's not possible. I will however keep digging...Dog Star said:
Rent a trailer. Drive it on the trailer back over on the cheapest ferry. Drive to nearest scrappers.
I'm awaiting to hear back on what the Portugese Customs Broker has to say on recovery costs, but this had crossed my mind (it would need to be a flat bed, as I don't have a trailer licence, but...)Dog Star said:
And another one - sell engine. Chop car up. Remove vin. Rent a skip.
Tell authorities that it s gone back to uk.
This has certain technical and practical realities which make it unlikely.Tell authorities that it s gone back to uk.
Panamax said:
If it was still UK registered what's it got to do with Portugal? How do they even know it's still there if it's not on the road?
One wonders why the authorities have written to him. Is it parked outside the front of the house or something?
Who says it can't be scrapped in Portugal? Is it scrappers saying they can't crush it because it's got no local paperwork? If so, just sell it "spares or repairs" or whatever.
Apparently, they can make good money from this sort of thing, there will be a fine for having non-locally registered car in the area for 'too long'. As I understand it, it is the Portugese police saying it can't be scrapped locally, as it's not locally registered hence the 'register it here, or take it away' options. One wonders why the authorities have written to him. Is it parked outside the front of the house or something?
Who says it can't be scrapped in Portugal? Is it scrappers saying they can't crush it because it's got no local paperwork? If so, just sell it "spares or repairs" or whatever.
Sell it - Interesting.... I suspect most people will be more aware that step-dad is about all this, so would probably have to pay someone to take it away.
Thank you for the input, folks.
Just because it cannot be scrapped in Portugal does not mean it cannot be scrapped elsewhere. I know for definite it can be officially disposed of in France if you have the V5 and you will receive a certificate of destruction and the same is true for Spain. This may save him lots of money!!
Per Gemini
“Unregistered Status: If the car is unregistered in the sense that the registration lapsed or was never completed, the process is still handled via the IMT, but if it's considered an End-of-Life Vehicle, the scrap yard typically handles the necessary paperwork based on its current status.
That would solve the scrapping, question is if the act of scrapping means they will really come after him for back taxes.
“Unregistered Status: If the car is unregistered in the sense that the registration lapsed or was never completed, the process is still handled via the IMT, but if it's considered an End-of-Life Vehicle, the scrap yard typically handles the necessary paperwork based on its current status.
That would solve the scrapping, question is if the act of scrapping means they will really come after him for back taxes.
I don't know how it works in Portugal but I had a UK registered car scrapped in Italy, no bother.
Plus as above, why are the Portuguese authorities worrying about it, surely if it's not on the road, they would have no interest as it's just an object?
Worst case scenario, remove all identification and dump it outside a scrap yard...
Plus as above, why are the Portuguese authorities worrying about it, surely if it's not on the road, they would have no interest as it's just an object?
Worst case scenario, remove all identification and dump it outside a scrap yard...
catso said:
Plus as above, why are the Portuguese authorities worrying about it, surely if it's not on the road, they would have no interest as it's just an object?
According to Portuguese law, any vehicle having a registration plate has to be insured. There is no version of SORN. You can deregister the car but as it wasnt registered in Portugal...It should have been registered and checked locally within 6 months of arrival if my google-fu skills are ok.
I'd be interested to know how Portugal knows about a UK car, given that since brexit I don't think there's a data sharing agreement between the two countries for V5 data etc. Maybe they've just spotted it regularly and written that way. I know they do stop UK cars in the Algarve if they look a bit 'local' ie fairly old and covered in dust.
I’m originally from Portugal.
There are a few ways to deal with it.
Option 1: Drive across the border to Spain, get it serviced by a mechanic in Spain and ask for a receipt to be issued showing the registration number and date.
You can legally drive a foreign car for up to 6 months in a 12 month period. Since the EU countries have an open border policy, it will be impossible for the tax authorities or the Police to prove you’ve been driving for longer than 6 months in the last 12 month period if you have proof that the car was abroad (spain) within the last 6 months.
Option 2: get a cheap registration number off the DVLA. Transfer the plate to your car. Because in Portugal cars cannot change registration numbers it’s unlikely they would have taken note of your VIN. They identify cars by the registration number only. A new registration number will reset the clock, as for legal purposes, it’s a different car.
On the subject of driving the car legally back to the UK, if the car is not in the UK you wouldn’t need to get it tax’d (until it’s in uk soil), as for the MOT - you are allowed to drive a car to the nearest MOT station, provided the MOT is pre-booked. I know, it’s a stretch, but legal. I would still put it through a portuguese MOT (Inspeçāo Periódica) before the trip, for peace of mind. Plus you can show a recent check if you get stopped anywhere between Portugal and UK.
There is a company that do regular multi-car transport between Lisbon and UK. Look up “The Lisbon London Line”, on Facebook. This will probably be your cheaper option to put the car back in UK.
There are a few ways to deal with it.
Option 1: Drive across the border to Spain, get it serviced by a mechanic in Spain and ask for a receipt to be issued showing the registration number and date.
You can legally drive a foreign car for up to 6 months in a 12 month period. Since the EU countries have an open border policy, it will be impossible for the tax authorities or the Police to prove you’ve been driving for longer than 6 months in the last 12 month period if you have proof that the car was abroad (spain) within the last 6 months.
Option 2: get a cheap registration number off the DVLA. Transfer the plate to your car. Because in Portugal cars cannot change registration numbers it’s unlikely they would have taken note of your VIN. They identify cars by the registration number only. A new registration number will reset the clock, as for legal purposes, it’s a different car.
On the subject of driving the car legally back to the UK, if the car is not in the UK you wouldn’t need to get it tax’d (until it’s in uk soil), as for the MOT - you are allowed to drive a car to the nearest MOT station, provided the MOT is pre-booked. I know, it’s a stretch, but legal. I would still put it through a portuguese MOT (Inspeçāo Periódica) before the trip, for peace of mind. Plus you can show a recent check if you get stopped anywhere between Portugal and UK.
There is a company that do regular multi-car transport between Lisbon and UK. Look up “The Lisbon London Line”, on Facebook. This will probably be your cheaper option to put the car back in UK.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff