Just bought my first DA polisher absolute beginner
Discussion
Been into detailing for years and always wanted to do this. My current F60 Mini Countryman has light scratches along the door, I guess caused by hawthorn bushes. And I particularly want to address those. But I am an amateur and beginner so trying keep it simple & safe.
What do we think of Menzerna One-step 3 in 1 polish. Probably starting with the softest pad. And depending on the results maybe move to a medium pad. And lastly do you need to finish off with another finishing product. And is that applied using your polisher ?
Thoughts, comments folks. Thankyou in advance.
I should mention there is an LV repair shop right across from where I work, so im planning to ask if I can borrow a discarded panel to practice on.
What do we think of Menzerna One-step 3 in 1 polish. Probably starting with the softest pad. And depending on the results maybe move to a medium pad. And lastly do you need to finish off with another finishing product. And is that applied using your polisher ?
Thoughts, comments folks. Thankyou in advance.
I should mention there is an LV repair shop right across from where I work, so im planning to ask if I can borrow a discarded panel to practice on.
Edited by macp on Sunday 2nd November 13:10
Hi, I'm a custom painter by trade. I use Menzerna a lot and rate them well. The 3 in 1 is a good starting product, I assume you mean the Cut Force Pro?
What kind of scratches are you talking about? My advice would be get some panel wipe and spray it on, can you still see the scratches when the panel is wet with the panel wipe as it evaporates? If so they probably won't come out just by polishing and would need some light sanding by either P2000 or P3000, but obviously you need to be really careful.
Give us some more details and I'm sure a number of us on here can talk you through it.
Initial advice, you probably need a coarse pad, a fine pad is really only going to help you polish, not remove scratches. Use a coarse pad and on a slow speed with pressure to remove the scratches, then jack the speed up and use virtually no pressure on a finer pad to polish it up.
You are basically using either a fine wet sandpaper, or a coarse cutting compound, to sand out the scratches (without going through the lacquer coat), then you are using finer and finer wet sandpaper or cutting compounds to remove the marks you've created until finally you are simply polishing it to a shine. Its simply a process starting with the coarsest thing you need to remove the initial marks then working your way back out with each stage simply removing the marks you have created from the process before.
What kind of scratches are you talking about? My advice would be get some panel wipe and spray it on, can you still see the scratches when the panel is wet with the panel wipe as it evaporates? If so they probably won't come out just by polishing and would need some light sanding by either P2000 or P3000, but obviously you need to be really careful.
Give us some more details and I'm sure a number of us on here can talk you through it.
Initial advice, you probably need a coarse pad, a fine pad is really only going to help you polish, not remove scratches. Use a coarse pad and on a slow speed with pressure to remove the scratches, then jack the speed up and use virtually no pressure on a finer pad to polish it up.
You are basically using either a fine wet sandpaper, or a coarse cutting compound, to sand out the scratches (without going through the lacquer coat), then you are using finer and finer wet sandpaper or cutting compounds to remove the marks you've created until finally you are simply polishing it to a shine. Its simply a process starting with the coarsest thing you need to remove the initial marks then working your way back out with each stage simply removing the marks you have created from the process before.
Everything you need to know is here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
You can probably skip the first two pages as you already have the polisher.
The transformation it made to my DB9, which had swirl marks and I could never get really shiny, is astonishing. Thanks to Dave, Belle and others for the invaluable advice.
You can probably skip the first two pages as you already have the polisher.
The transformation it made to my DB9, which had swirl marks and I could never get really shiny, is astonishing. Thanks to Dave, Belle and others for the invaluable advice.
Thanks all
I read the link through, and was happy that I have ot gone completely off track. Last night I gambled and bought some Menzerna cut pro and some 3 in 1. Only bought the 250ml bottles so will see which is most effective. I also bought an orange and a white hex logic pad.
I wandered over and got myself a scrapped wing today to practice on. They had loads of doors though, and as that is the problem area I may go back and swap it.
I read the link through, and was happy that I have ot gone completely off track. Last night I gambled and bought some Menzerna cut pro and some 3 in 1. Only bought the 250ml bottles so will see which is most effective. I also bought an orange and a white hex logic pad.
I wandered over and got myself a scrapped wing today to practice on. They had loads of doors though, and as that is the problem area I may go back and swap it.
The forensic detailing channel on you tube has a guide for beginners which is worth a watch, its honestly very easy and once you start you will get the hang of it.
Don`t rush it would be my advice.
Pad and compound choice can be a minefield but you wont go far wrong with your choices, I find a medium and a fine pad ideal for myself who likes to see an improvement to the paint quality but isn`t too fussy. I have done several cars with just a hex logic orange pad and some Scholl Concepts S20 black compound and the results have been fantastic.
Don`t rush it would be my advice.
Pad and compound choice can be a minefield but you wont go far wrong with your choices, I find a medium and a fine pad ideal for myself who likes to see an improvement to the paint quality but isn`t too fussy. I have done several cars with just a hex logic orange pad and some Scholl Concepts S20 black compound and the results have been fantastic.
DaveF-SkinnysAutos said:
Hi, I'm a custom painter by trade. I use Menzerna a lot and rate them well. The 3 in 1 is a good starting product, I assume you mean the Cut Force Pro?
What kind of scratches are you talking about? My advice would be get some panel wipe and spray it on, can you still see the scratches when the panel is wet with the panel wipe as it evaporates? If so they probably won't come out just by polishing and would need some light sanding by either P2000 or P3000, but obviously you need to be really careful.
Give us some more details and I'm sure a number of us on here can talk you through it.
Initial advice, you probably need a coarse pad, a fine pad is really only going to help you polish, not remove scratches. Use a coarse pad and on a slow speed with pressure to remove the scratches, then jack the speed up and use virtually no pressure on a finer pad to polish it up.
You are basically using either a fine wet sandpaper, or a coarse cutting compound, to sand out the scratches (without going through the lacquer coat), then you are using finer and finer wet sandpaper or cutting compounds to remove the marks you've created until finally you are simply polishing it to a shine. Its simply a process starting with the coarsest thing you need to remove the initial marks then working your way back out with each stage simply removing the marks you have created from the process before.
I hate to be this person, as I hate it when people do this to me, but some of your info isn't quite right.What kind of scratches are you talking about? My advice would be get some panel wipe and spray it on, can you still see the scratches when the panel is wet with the panel wipe as it evaporates? If so they probably won't come out just by polishing and would need some light sanding by either P2000 or P3000, but obviously you need to be really careful.
Give us some more details and I'm sure a number of us on here can talk you through it.
Initial advice, you probably need a coarse pad, a fine pad is really only going to help you polish, not remove scratches. Use a coarse pad and on a slow speed with pressure to remove the scratches, then jack the speed up and use virtually no pressure on a finer pad to polish it up.
You are basically using either a fine wet sandpaper, or a coarse cutting compound, to sand out the scratches (without going through the lacquer coat), then you are using finer and finer wet sandpaper or cutting compounds to remove the marks you've created until finally you are simply polishing it to a shine. Its simply a process starting with the coarsest thing you need to remove the initial marks then working your way back out with each stage simply removing the marks you have created from the process before.
Sanding isn't the optimal process for sub-surface defect removal (i.e. scratches).
Why?
It has a slower rate of removal compared to aggressive polishing and will flatten a surface - i.e. it's best for surface-level or above surface-level defects.
The other downside to sanding a scratch is that you'll affect the texture of the paint, which is fine if you're doing the whole car, but if not, you'll end up with a small area of a very flat, glass like surface.
For the best scratch removal, you'll want a microfibre cutting pad and a reasonably strong compound - "all in one" compounds probably won't really do much other than improving gloss and filling in scratches with the fillers, making it appear as though you've removed the scratches. This depends on how soft the paint is, of course.
MF pads with a cutting compound will create haze/micro marring, but that's because it's doing its job. You'll need to refine afterwards.
I don't mean to call you out and I am by no means trying to belittle your experience - the whole sanding thing is a common misconception fuelled by all the stupid short form videos online "proving" it works.
If you want more info, happy to go through it on here in a bit more detail (excuse the pun)
Deviation said:
I hate to be this person, as I hate it when people do this to me, but some of your info isn't quite right.
Sanding isn't the optimal process for sub-surface defect removal (i.e. scratches).
Why?
It has a slower rate of removal compared to aggressive polishing and will flatten a surface - i.e. it's best for surface-level or above surface-level defects.
The other downside to sanding a scratch is that you'll affect the texture of the paint, which is fine if you're doing the whole car, but if not, you'll end up with a small area of a very flat, glass like surface.
For the best scratch removal, you'll want a microfibre cutting pad and a reasonably strong compound - "all in one" compounds probably won't really do much other than improving gloss and filling in scratches with the fillers, making it appear as though you've removed the scratches. This depends on how soft the paint is, of course.
MF pads with a cutting compound will create haze/micro marring, but that's because it's doing its job. You'll need to refine afterwards.
I don't mean to call you out and I am by no means trying to belittle your experience - the whole sanding thing is a common misconception fuelled by all the stupid short form videos online "proving" it works.
If you want more info, happy to go through it on here in a bit more detail (excuse the pun)
Hey, no offence taken whatsoever, there are rightly many, many ways to solve most problems, and its right that there are many different opinions, all of which can be right, but obviously, I completely disagree with you! Sanding isn't the optimal process for sub-surface defect removal (i.e. scratches).
Why?
It has a slower rate of removal compared to aggressive polishing and will flatten a surface - i.e. it's best for surface-level or above surface-level defects.
The other downside to sanding a scratch is that you'll affect the texture of the paint, which is fine if you're doing the whole car, but if not, you'll end up with a small area of a very flat, glass like surface.
For the best scratch removal, you'll want a microfibre cutting pad and a reasonably strong compound - "all in one" compounds probably won't really do much other than improving gloss and filling in scratches with the fillers, making it appear as though you've removed the scratches. This depends on how soft the paint is, of course.
MF pads with a cutting compound will create haze/micro marring, but that's because it's doing its job. You'll need to refine afterwards.
I don't mean to call you out and I am by no means trying to belittle your experience - the whole sanding thing is a common misconception fuelled by all the stupid short form videos online "proving" it works.
If you want more info, happy to go through it on here in a bit more detail (excuse the pun)
No, seriously, in the context of the OP question, an amateur, first DA, wanting to remove some hopefully minor scratches, I agree, I don't think going more aggressively than a heavyish compound on a firm pad would be sensible as if you go to far, then there is no coming back, so point taken.
But in relation to sanding, over using a compound on a deep scratch in general, on a deep scratch, close to going through the clear coat I would always, and do on a daily basis go to sanding first.
Using very local sanding on a hard small block, directly, to remove the scratch is quicker and safer than using a DA (or a Rotary). Firstly, when using a machine polisher you are getting rid of the very precious clear coat on a much wider area than you are by localised sanding, and you are also putting a lot of heat into that panel to get it to grind away a deep scratch and running a much greater risk of burning through. I can control my hand sanding a lot more than a spinning machine.
All a machine polisher and compound is doing is removing marks on a microscopic level, by directly sanding with lets say P2000, you are removing the scratch on a very local area and leaving fine 2000 grit marks, P3000 then removes those scratch marks, the cutting compound then removes the 3000 marks, then the fine polish removes the compound marks. By only using compound on a deep scratch you are taking a lot of time to do the job a coarser grit can do in a few rubs on a much tighter area, you are also spreading the machine polisher out over a wider area and removing more of the clear coat than is needed, and to be aggressive you are putting heat into the paint.
In relation to leaving a shiny area, yes, in some circumstances that could be an issue, but Id say you would have to have a very bad paint job for your orange peel to be so bad that you are going to notice, in which case you probably need the whole panel cutting back anyway, but by using a small hard block, and only sanding the actual scratch back, you are never leaving anything that shows on anything other than what must be a very poorly initially painted panel.
I think going back to the original point, the OP has brought their first DA, have fun, practise, explore, you will certainly make the scratch and the car look better, but ultimately there are many ways to solve the same problem, a detailer will always revert to products and detailing techniques and rightly so, equally Im stuck in my ways, I'm a painter, I think detailing sometimes is more about trying to sell you products than anything else.
I spend my days attacking clear coat with P600 to get a show finish and think nothing of it as I can put it right, but that's not the right option for someone on a Sunday morning making your pride and joy the best you can, which is what brings us all together in the first place! Horses for courses and all that!
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