Prices 12c and 650s
Discussion
Ok I am a regular looker on autotrader.There seems to be very little difference in price between the 12c and 650s (A couple of relatively high mileage 650s spiders for £70k and 72.5k)Bell and Colvill Guildford have a 36k miles 12c up for 75k.General opinion the 650s is the car that the 12c should have been plus there rarer too just surprises me that the price difference is virtually the same when the 650s is the newer more well rounded car.
I may be looking at getting into a 650s spider before spring hits (plus my emira is out of warranty then).Will winter months have any effect on values possibly ?.
I may be looking at getting into a 650s spider before spring hits (plus my emira is out of warranty then).Will winter months have any effect on values possibly ?.
The price ranges of the 12C and 650S overlap, but there's still an offset in values. The median asking price for a 12C is £78k, for a 650S it's £89.5k, so well over 10% more.
Looking at Spiders only it's £85k v £90.5k, so a smaller gap because the Spider arrived late in the 12C's life vs from the start for the 650S, but still a gap.
The overlap is likely explained by the fact they're all ~10 years old now, so condition and spec matter more than age or, effectively, pre or post facelift. There are also some sellers trying to pitch early 'launch spec' 12Cs as appreciating classics, being the first McLaren Automotive car.
I wouldn't expect widespread winter discounts on 650 spiders, the market can tend to be quieter I think. You might find a motivated seller who's willing to take a bit less I guess.
IMHO finding the right car is more important than possibly saving a few grand. I'd be looking for a car with a history of being driven and serviced every year, at least for the past few years. Then getting it inspected. And I'd be looking for one with a colour and interior trim I really like.
The model comparison will go on and on, my experience of both (coupe format) is that both are on a level above anything I have ever driven, but the 12C is the car with the most character.
To use the 996 / 997 Porsche as a comparison, .... the 996 was Porsches landmark design by Pinky Lai, to replace the original 911 silhouette. The 997 was the 996 overlaid with the market reaction to the new design. And its biggest redesign was the headlamp reverting to "round". The key point here is the 997 was a reaction to the market reaction.
The 650 was similar.
Pre MP4 12C launch in 2011 the press were in raptures about the new McLaren, soon after, only Chris Harris stood speaking his mind and not following the fashion of McLaren criticism.
The 650 changes are: less turbo lag, stiffer (15%) progressive suspension v's linear sprung 12C, Headlights, aero / downforce, door handles, paddle spring-load, but all these changes only made a different car, a car more similar to the competition. For me personally, a very good car but not a better car provided the 12C has a MSO front splitter.
As suggested, buy a real good clean one, get it inspected, Thorney did this for me. I would add the suggestion you drive both before making the decision. Swipe doors are class when you get the hang of them.
To use the 996 / 997 Porsche as a comparison, .... the 996 was Porsches landmark design by Pinky Lai, to replace the original 911 silhouette. The 997 was the 996 overlaid with the market reaction to the new design. And its biggest redesign was the headlamp reverting to "round". The key point here is the 997 was a reaction to the market reaction.
The 650 was similar.
Pre MP4 12C launch in 2011 the press were in raptures about the new McLaren, soon after, only Chris Harris stood speaking his mind and not following the fashion of McLaren criticism.
The 650 changes are: less turbo lag, stiffer (15%) progressive suspension v's linear sprung 12C, Headlights, aero / downforce, door handles, paddle spring-load, but all these changes only made a different car, a car more similar to the competition. For me personally, a very good car but not a better car provided the 12C has a MSO front splitter.
As suggested, buy a real good clean one, get it inspected, Thorney did this for me. I would add the suggestion you drive both before making the decision. Swipe doors are class when you get the hang of them.
One practical point is that the 12c doesn t need lift as it doesn t have the low splitter of the 650.
Aside from also preferring the looks and wanting the swipe doors, that swung me to getting a 12c. It s nice not to have to remember to activate the lift over speed bumps!
Aside from also preferring the looks and wanting the swipe doors, that swung me to getting a 12c. It s nice not to have to remember to activate the lift over speed bumps!
Edited by Pandox2096 on Thursday 6th November 21:37
650S said:
The 650 changes are: less turbo lag, stiffer (15%) progressive suspension v's linear sprung 12C, Headlights, aero / downforce, door handles, paddle spring-load
There are other internal changes which don't tend to get mentioned much. For example, the valve arrangement in the cylinder head was altered to avoid cracking between the valves.At the time I bought the 650 over a 12C because I couldn't gel with the latter’s floaty suspension settings. Even is sport the 12C just had too much of uncontrolled rebound while starting to be crashy at the same time. I already had a manual V12 coupe and fast EVs by then, so I figured the 650 would be a keeper as a classic supercar. But ironically, I find its looks remain fresh and modern (in black), and indeed the 12c is starting to look like the real classic.
12pack said:
At the time I bought the 650 over a 12C because I couldn't gel with the latter s floaty suspension settings. Even is sport the 12C just had too much of uncontrolled rebound while starting to be crashy at the same time. I already had a manual V12 coupe and fast EVs by then, so I figured the 650 would be a keeper as a classic supercar. But ironically, I find its looks remain fresh and modern (in black), and indeed the 12c is starting to look like the real classic.
Possibly needed accumulators, that description fits well, my 650 was the same before Thorney replaced the full set.davek_964 said:
There are other internal changes which don't tend to get mentioned much. For example, the valve arrangement in the cylinder head was altered to avoid cracking between the valves.
My apologies, for sure this revised cylinder head casting with the increased exhaust valve spacing, is perhaps the most significant engine revision. I overlooked it - thanks for reminder.How do people get on with inspections if they find a car in the colour and spec they want.I know if a garage or private seller were not willing to have a car inspected one would probably walk.If Thorney and V engineering are so snowed under do they fit an inspection in so to speak or a case of one has to go to the back of the que (I suppose one could lose out on a potentially spot on car if they had to wait 2 or 3 weeks for an inspection).
The easy way is you buy from a supplier you trust (for me Thorney).
I tried that, but missed the car by an hour. I had not placed a deposit so it can happen.
I later found a car and was 90% sure it was good. The trade seller had it on SOR and was genuine, sent me a video of the car highlighting any flaws (minor corrosion spots for example). I placed a returnable deposit and he arranged a Thorney inspection (it had to be them). The Inspection report came in with a couple of minor snags, the seller sorted it, paid the inspection and I completed the purchase. The process can take a few weeks depending on geography and lead times.
Not as easy, it needs genuine players, and should be documented.
For me, very few know a McLaren well enough to inspect it properly including McLaren appointed dealers.
Car is a gem.
I tried that, but missed the car by an hour. I had not placed a deposit so it can happen.
I later found a car and was 90% sure it was good. The trade seller had it on SOR and was genuine, sent me a video of the car highlighting any flaws (minor corrosion spots for example). I placed a returnable deposit and he arranged a Thorney inspection (it had to be them). The Inspection report came in with a couple of minor snags, the seller sorted it, paid the inspection and I completed the purchase. The process can take a few weeks depending on geography and lead times.
Not as easy, it needs genuine players, and should be documented.
For me, very few know a McLaren well enough to inspect it properly including McLaren appointed dealers.
Car is a gem.
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