Advice needed re employment law
Discussion
I think this is naughty, but I'm not versed.
My daughter is 17, works in the kitchen of a local but national pub chain, washing up.
They want (told) her to work 6 days without a break, and have said they'll "adjust" the work roster to show she's had 2 days off. This is due to staff shortages and sickness, and everyone needs to "step up".
They also frequently get her working beyond 00:00 from 6pm without a break which , believe it or not, they've actually put on her wage slip.
I have spoken to the Manager this evening, who was pretty flippant and dismissive saying that pub hours are under separate laws, which I admit I am not familiar with so I kind of backed down, but I said that I am pretty certain that working 6 days without a break, as a minor, is unlawful regardless. I told him it's not going to happen, he then just scoffed.
Now, I'm going to be meeting with the manager again tomorrow when I drop her off, although he doesn't know it yet, for a chat without coffee and hob nobs, but I really need to be able to quote the law with a degree of certainty and preferably something which will make him stop and think other than a very hard thump in the melon.
TIA for any help, and a virtual single malt to you all.
My daughter is 17, works in the kitchen of a local but national pub chain, washing up.
They want (told) her to work 6 days without a break, and have said they'll "adjust" the work roster to show she's had 2 days off. This is due to staff shortages and sickness, and everyone needs to "step up".
They also frequently get her working beyond 00:00 from 6pm without a break which , believe it or not, they've actually put on her wage slip.
I have spoken to the Manager this evening, who was pretty flippant and dismissive saying that pub hours are under separate laws, which I admit I am not familiar with so I kind of backed down, but I said that I am pretty certain that working 6 days without a break, as a minor, is unlawful regardless. I told him it's not going to happen, he then just scoffed.
Now, I'm going to be meeting with the manager again tomorrow when I drop her off, although he doesn't know it yet, for a chat without coffee and hob nobs, but I really need to be able to quote the law with a degree of certainty and preferably something which will make him stop and think other than a very hard thump in the melon.
TIA for any help, and a virtual single malt to you all.
Not sure if modern slavery rules extend far enough to cover this kind of thing but you could investigate that. Ultimately I suspect anything that injures the manager's ego will result in her being sacked. She should probably jump before she's pushed. If they're so deparate for people to step up then maybe if she steps out instead it'll give them something to think about.
The OH had a Saturday job at a well known high street retailer as a teenager. Everyone was expected to stay 30-60 minutes over at the end of the day, tidying up after the store had closed, for which they weren't paid. She told them she wouldn't work hours for which she wasn't being paid so they sacked her.
At this level of the employment food chain no one cares about you, there's little or no protection from the law and there's a plentiful supply of people desparate for unskilled work to replace anyone who's rude enough to suggest that they're treated with some dignity.
The OH had a Saturday job at a well known high street retailer as a teenager. Everyone was expected to stay 30-60 minutes over at the end of the day, tidying up after the store had closed, for which they weren't paid. She told them she wouldn't work hours for which she wasn't being paid so they sacked her.
At this level of the employment food chain no one cares about you, there's little or no protection from the law and there's a plentiful supply of people desparate for unskilled work to replace anyone who's rude enough to suggest that they're treated with some dignity.
Thanks fellas.
I forgot to mention this is a part time job before going to Uni, she's saving for a new (better) car so not a career path with any delusions of climbing the corporate ladder or anything. She's set on joining the Police and has been focusing on that since she was 15.
Maybe I was a bit too angry in my OP.
Seeing the Managers point, under heaps of pressure and is a kind of affable young fella when he's in a good mood, but in some ways I think if this becomes a habit for him, it'll be bigger problems down the road. Plus my daughter is on her chinstrap with college etc, but 6 days without a break is taking the piss a bit, and ultimately staffing isn't her problem.
Maybe, on reflection, delivering the message firmly but without me being a dick over it will be better for everyone. Plus I'll still get my Steak and chips for staff price and a free pint of Adnams.
I forgot to mention this is a part time job before going to Uni, she's saving for a new (better) car so not a career path with any delusions of climbing the corporate ladder or anything. She's set on joining the Police and has been focusing on that since she was 15.
Maybe I was a bit too angry in my OP.
Seeing the Managers point, under heaps of pressure and is a kind of affable young fella when he's in a good mood, but in some ways I think if this becomes a habit for him, it'll be bigger problems down the road. Plus my daughter is on her chinstrap with college etc, but 6 days without a break is taking the piss a bit, and ultimately staffing isn't her problem.
Maybe, on reflection, delivering the message firmly but without me being a dick over it will be better for everyone. Plus I'll still get my Steak and chips for staff price and a free pint of Adnams.
Unless she's driving an HGV as part of her job, all of what's in the OP is within the law. The rules are, 24hrs min off in a 7 day period. If under 18 then they're entitled to 48hrs per 7 days but it can be missed out on, then it needs to be compensated within 3 weeks.
If she feels its too much work (6x 6+ hours = 36 hours, which is kinda full time, not part time) then that's a separate conversation. I've often found that once they have trained someone up and are more/less happy with them, then they'll throw all the hours they can handle at them rather than find someone else etc.
If she feels its too much work (6x 6+ hours = 36 hours, which is kinda full time, not part time) then that's a separate conversation. I've often found that once they have trained someone up and are more/less happy with them, then they'll throw all the hours they can handle at them rather than find someone else etc.
texaxile said:
Thanks fellas.
I forgot to mention this is a part time job before going to Uni, she's saving for a new (better) car so not a career path with any delusions of climbing the corporate ladder or anything. She's set on joining the Police and has been focusing on that since she was 15.
Maybe I was a bit too angry in my OP.
Seeing the Managers point, under heaps of pressure and is a kind of affable young fella when he's in a good mood, but in some ways I think if this becomes a habit for him, it'll be bigger problems down the road. Plus my daughter is on her chinstrap with college etc, but 6 days without a break is taking the piss a bit, and ultimately staffing isn't her problem.
Maybe, on reflection, delivering the message firmly but without me being a dick over it will be better for everyone. Plus I'll still get my Steak and chips for staff price and a free pint of Adnams.
6 days full or part time?I forgot to mention this is a part time job before going to Uni, she's saving for a new (better) car so not a career path with any delusions of climbing the corporate ladder or anything. She's set on joining the Police and has been focusing on that since she was 15.
Maybe I was a bit too angry in my OP.
Seeing the Managers point, under heaps of pressure and is a kind of affable young fella when he's in a good mood, but in some ways I think if this becomes a habit for him, it'll be bigger problems down the road. Plus my daughter is on her chinstrap with college etc, but 6 days without a break is taking the piss a bit, and ultimately staffing isn't her problem.
Maybe, on reflection, delivering the message firmly but without me being a dick over it will be better for everyone. Plus I'll still get my Steak and chips for staff price and a free pint of Adnams.
I’d stay out of this, opportunity for your daughter to learn life skills, you’d presumably not harangue her uni, or subsequent superiors in the police?
bennno said:
texaxile said:
Thanks fellas.
I forgot to mention this is a part time job before going to Uni, she's saving for a new (better) car so not a career path with any delusions of climbing the corporate ladder or anything. She's set on joining the Police and has been focusing on that since she was 15.
Maybe I was a bit too angry in my OP.
Seeing the Managers point, under heaps of pressure and is a kind of affable young fella when he's in a good mood, but in some ways I think if this becomes a habit for him, it'll be bigger problems down the road. Plus my daughter is on her chinstrap with college etc, but 6 days without a break is taking the piss a bit, and ultimately staffing isn't her problem.
Maybe, on reflection, delivering the message firmly but without me being a dick over it will be better for everyone. Plus I'll still get my Steak and chips for staff price and a free pint of Adnams.
6 days full or part time?I forgot to mention this is a part time job before going to Uni, she's saving for a new (better) car so not a career path with any delusions of climbing the corporate ladder or anything. She's set on joining the Police and has been focusing on that since she was 15.
Maybe I was a bit too angry in my OP.
Seeing the Managers point, under heaps of pressure and is a kind of affable young fella when he's in a good mood, but in some ways I think if this becomes a habit for him, it'll be bigger problems down the road. Plus my daughter is on her chinstrap with college etc, but 6 days without a break is taking the piss a bit, and ultimately staffing isn't her problem.
Maybe, on reflection, delivering the message firmly but without me being a dick over it will be better for everyone. Plus I'll still get my Steak and chips for staff price and a free pint of Adnams.
I d stay out of this, opportunity for your daughter to learn life skills, you d presumably not harangue her uni, or subsequent superiors in the police?
Pass on the details to her, get her to ask when she will get the time back etc & just advise her rather than going in yourself, it is never going to be a bad idea to let her learn her own life lessons & how to navigate these issues herself.
I get you want to help and protect her. But are you sure talking to her manager in her behalf is the best move.
Albeit not kids, but if someone’s parent, wife etc came in and started moaning on behalf of one of my team. Not sure if look to favourably on it. You say she’s going to uni and want to join the police, maybe time to let her stand up for herself?
Albeit not kids, but if someone’s parent, wife etc came in and started moaning on behalf of one of my team. Not sure if look to favourably on it. You say she’s going to uni and want to join the police, maybe time to let her stand up for herself?
It’s not outrageous and most youngsters will take every hour thrown at them, my kids worked in independent and chain retail from a young age until leaving uni and they were always having to do extra hours sometimes at short notice.
The flip side is some friends kids worked for a big sports chain who would call you in for a 5 hour shift and send you home after one as the shop wasn’t as busy as predicted, making the travel costs lost.
At this need of the market, I think you need to be flexible and like the posts above, they’ll just find an excuse to move her on and hire someone else if you give the manager earache.
The flip side is some friends kids worked for a big sports chain who would call you in for a 5 hour shift and send you home after one as the shop wasn’t as busy as predicted, making the travel costs lost.
At this need of the market, I think you need to be flexible and like the posts above, they’ll just find an excuse to move her on and hire someone else if you give the manager earache.
Thanks for the replies fellas.
I'll go with the general consensus which is to advise her on how to deal with it, and let her have the conversation with the manager.
The hours they've given her have added up to more than 40 hours over a 6 day period, but she'll ask for that to be reduced today down to about 40.
Thinking about it last night , the Manager is , as I said, under heaps of pressure in that role and I wouldn't want to do it at his relatively young age, but props to him for achieving what he has done and the responsibilities he's taking on. He's a decent lad actually.
Thanks again.
I'll go with the general consensus which is to advise her on how to deal with it, and let her have the conversation with the manager.
The hours they've given her have added up to more than 40 hours over a 6 day period, but she'll ask for that to be reduced today down to about 40.
Thinking about it last night , the Manager is , as I said, under heaps of pressure in that role and I wouldn't want to do it at his relatively young age, but props to him for achieving what he has done and the responsibilities he's taking on. He's a decent lad actually.
Thanks again.
My daughter was working for a well-known national chain.
They were expecting unpaid presence at work before and after normal working hours which were at minimum wage. She reported this to the DWP. Within weeks there was a national change in policy.
Whilst this may not have an immediate effect in her case, at least the employer will be investigated.
They were expecting unpaid presence at work before and after normal working hours which were at minimum wage. She reported this to the DWP. Within weeks there was a national change in policy.
Whilst this may not have an immediate effect in her case, at least the employer will be investigated.
GasEngineer said:
OP you haven't said in any of your posts how your daughter feels about it.
Young people in her position (saving up) often want as many hours as they can get. She might be quite happy with the situation.
Are you just being offended on her behalf?
She's not happy about it, and your question is pretty snarky. Young people in her position (saving up) often want as many hours as they can get. She might be quite happy with the situation.
Are you just being offended on her behalf?
Why else do you think I'd put a post up.
texaxile said:
She's not happy about it, and your question is pretty snarky.
Why else do you think I'd put a post up.
It’s a fair question, can’t be that many on here venting on behalf of their adult teenage offspring and arguing with their employer on their behalf.Why else do you think I'd put a post up.
If my sons complained I’d ask them what they want the outcome to be and suggest always they might achieve it, not line up a couple of sessions with their employer…
bennno said:
It s a fair question, can t be that many on here venting on behalf of their adult teenage offspring and arguing with their employer on their behalf.
If my sons complained I d ask them what they want the outcome to be and suggest always they might achieve it, not line up a couple of sessions with their employer
Which is what I've done. Basically she wasn't happy about the amount of hours thrown at her, so I took the consensus here and got her to speak with the Manager this afternoon. Her initial fear was that he'd be reactive to it, as he's under a fair bit of pressure. Being her first job, and she's a bit concerned over it all, I would have happily spoken to the manager on her behalf. If my sons complained I d ask them what they want the outcome to be and suggest always they might achieve it, not line up a couple of sessions with their employer
It's a good life lesson for her as well, to approach a difficult situation and speak about it. As mentioned elsewhere, there's plenty of young 'uns wanting part time work.
texaxile said:
GasEngineer said:
OP you haven't said in any of your posts how your daughter feels about it.
Young people in her position (saving up) often want as many hours as they can get. She might be quite happy with the situation.
Are you just being offended on her behalf?
She's not happy about it, and your question is pretty snarky. Young people in her position (saving up) often want as many hours as they can get. She might be quite happy with the situation.
Are you just being offended on her behalf?
Why else do you think I'd put a post up.
As mentioned upthread some teenagers are happy to do all the hours they can, and you hadn't actually said that your daughter was unhappy about it.
texaxile said:
They want (told) her to work 6 days without a break, and have said they'll "adjust" the work roster to show she's had 2 days off.
My son (24) is working full time for a business who do exactly the same thing - adjusting rosters etc. You'd think this would be fraudulent - but I wouldn't intervene on his behalf. 'Welcome to test match cricket' is my rather cynical view. 
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