Is payment for a car contract of sale?
Discussion
All academic as it’s sorted now but -
Sold a car yesterday (a few hundred £)
Guy paid via bank transfer
I offered a receipt but he declined he said he’s got a record of the payment on his bank app
He was due to come today to collect the car and do transfer etc.
text me saying he’s found another car wants refund
I say too late payment made it’s your car come and get it
He threatened court action
I say crack on
He says no documentation ( bill of sale , receipt or transfer) therefore no sale
I say my bank statement clearly shows payment of £x for model of car. So sale
My missus the voice of reason steps in and says why get all the grief for a car ( which was still outside ) which we can probably sell again this week
So refunded minus some costs.
So was I correct that a sale had been made and he had no legal recourse???
And what would have you done ???
Sold a car yesterday (a few hundred £)
Guy paid via bank transfer
I offered a receipt but he declined he said he’s got a record of the payment on his bank app
He was due to come today to collect the car and do transfer etc.
text me saying he’s found another car wants refund
I say too late payment made it’s your car come and get it
He threatened court action
I say crack on
He says no documentation ( bill of sale , receipt or transfer) therefore no sale
I say my bank statement clearly shows payment of £x for model of car. So sale
My missus the voice of reason steps in and says why get all the grief for a car ( which was still outside ) which we can probably sell again this week
So refunded minus some costs.
So was I correct that a sale had been made and he had no legal recourse???
And what would have you done ???
Offer - Check.
Acceptance - Check.
Acceptance - Check.
Consideration - Check.
Intention for legal relations - Check.
Capacity - Check.
If it walks like a duck... But depends on whether you had previous comms (preferably via text/email) to back this up. Courts can be funny things, but on paper that's a completed contract.
Acceptance - Check.
Acceptance - Check.
Consideration - Check.
Intention for legal relations - Check.
Capacity - Check.
If it walks like a duck... But depends on whether you had previous comms (preferably via text/email) to back this up. Courts can be funny things, but on paper that's a completed contract.
Every time I've sold a car, the payment was done with the buyer present, and the car was handed over for them to drive off.
I think technically, what was said (if nothing was written down) is the "contract of sale" (a contract doesn't need to be written down) and the payment is just a step in the process/term of sale. Also in that "contract of sale" would be the date of collection or delivery, it would not be left open-ended. But pragmatically, no buyer is going to let a car go before its paid for (otherwise they'd be offering unregulated credit) so payment always happens before collection.
I think technically, what was said (if nothing was written down) is the "contract of sale" (a contract doesn't need to be written down) and the payment is just a step in the process/term of sale. Also in that "contract of sale" would be the date of collection or delivery, it would not be left open-ended. But pragmatically, no buyer is going to let a car go before its paid for (otherwise they'd be offering unregulated credit) so payment always happens before collection.
It s not completely clear in the OP whether the issue is the seller trying complete the sale or the buyer attempting to get his deposit back.
In either case I would suggest they have little/no hope if the other side chooses not to cooperate.
OP. Tell him that if he wants to pursue his deposit you will happily see him in court at which point you will look for enforcement of the sale and if he doesn t complete the purchase in 14 days you will look to sell elsewhere and hold the deposit to apply it to any losses you suffer due to his breach of your agreement.
ETA, just noticed you said it was sorted now. So spill the beans………..
In either case I would suggest they have little/no hope if the other side chooses not to cooperate.
OP. Tell him that if he wants to pursue his deposit you will happily see him in court at which point you will look for enforcement of the sale and if he doesn t complete the purchase in 14 days you will look to sell elsewhere and hold the deposit to apply it to any losses you suffer due to his breach of your agreement.
ETA, just noticed you said it was sorted now. So spill the beans………..
Other end of the car buying spectrum, but a colleague paid a deposit on a new, in stock 5 Series and then the salesman went into hiding for a few days. Turned out the car had already been sold to someone else. Dealer said they'd return deposit as they couldn't honour the deal on a factory order car, especially as it was on heavily supported finance.
Our work legal guy said they if money has changed hands then a binding contract is in place. In telling the dealer this, they immediately capituated and in the end did more than honour the deal.
Our work legal guy said they if money has changed hands then a binding contract is in place. In telling the dealer this, they immediately capituated and in the end did more than honour the deal.
Ekona said:
Offer - Check.
Acceptance - Check.
Acceptance - Check.
Consideration - Check.
Intention for legal relations - Check.
Capacity - Check.
If it walks like a duck... But depends on whether you had previous comms (preferably via text/email) to back this up. Courts can be funny things, but on paper that's a completed contract.
This.Acceptance - Check.
Acceptance - Check.
Consideration - Check.
Intention for legal relations - Check.
Capacity - Check.
If it walks like a duck... But depends on whether you had previous comms (preferably via text/email) to back this up. Courts can be funny things, but on paper that's a completed contract.
head is wrong.
I had the same happen to me a few years ago on a £650 Civic, but as I'd already transferred my insurance over and cancelled the tax with a new car bought and being picked up the following day to take its parking space, I refused his request, told him the sale was complete and to come and collect it. Lots of threats but I stood firm.
It went silent for a few days so sent him a text and an email advising that the car was now parked on the road outside with no tax or insurance on it so you need to come and get it if you don't want it clamped, and also asked for his address to deregister it from my address to. No reply, so I sent a final one next day telling him where I'd put the keys and he had 24 hours to give me an address for the V5 otherwise it would be deregistered to a fake address and then you'll have to pay and apply for the V5 yourself. More silence so I just moved on and forgot about it. The car sat outside for a further 5 days until one evening I came home and it had gone. I never heard anything further and the V5 was deregistered to a made-up address.
It went silent for a few days so sent him a text and an email advising that the car was now parked on the road outside with no tax or insurance on it so you need to come and get it if you don't want it clamped, and also asked for his address to deregister it from my address to. No reply, so I sent a final one next day telling him where I'd put the keys and he had 24 hours to give me an address for the V5 otherwise it would be deregistered to a fake address and then you'll have to pay and apply for the V5 yourself. More silence so I just moved on and forgot about it. The car sat outside for a further 5 days until one evening I came home and it had gone. I never heard anything further and the V5 was deregistered to a made-up address.
I had similar quite a few years back I had a cheap car for sale (really lovely condition and nice car but worthless at the time rubber bumper mgb GT), it was up for sale fairly cheaply, can't remember the number but what I do recall is the first guy who wanted to buy it left a deposit of £500 which I explained was only refundable if he came to collect it and it wasn't as described, he dithered around for a couple of weeks and told me to keep the deposit, then a second buyer came along who made great efforts to tell me he was a solicitor for some reason, exactly the same story again. Bearing in mind in reality if forced to I would have to have given the deposits back as there was no probable loss from this month or so of timewasting, the "solicitor" would have known that.
In the end the car sold to a really lovely guy who was a pilot from Ireland, the whole situation was just so fantastical it doesn't sound true, but for some reason selling cars, especially cheap cars brings the oddest people out of the wood work, the comedy of the nice Irish guy is because it was looking like the car was sticking around for ever with me as it just wasn't selling, I'd booked on to an auto test at Silverstone MG meet in it, and it was in a few days time, so with his permission and on the basis if I broke it I'd either fix it or give him his money back I autotested his car before he collected
and he was fine with it. That was not far off 20 years ago now, can't see anyone these days being so chilled out.
In the end the car sold to a really lovely guy who was a pilot from Ireland, the whole situation was just so fantastical it doesn't sound true, but for some reason selling cars, especially cheap cars brings the oddest people out of the wood work, the comedy of the nice Irish guy is because it was looking like the car was sticking around for ever with me as it just wasn't selling, I'd booked on to an auto test at Silverstone MG meet in it, and it was in a few days time, so with his permission and on the basis if I broke it I'd either fix it or give him his money back I autotested his car before he collected
and he was fine with it. That was not far off 20 years ago now, can't see anyone these days being so chilled out.As Oliver stated, its always the cheaper end of the market that seems to attract an absolute barrage of absurdness.
I've sold a few cheap cars over the years - entertained some right plonkers, you learn to filter out the crap and ignore some of the messages.
Have one or two that stand out to me, one of which was for a £500 Peugeot, potential buyer had me on the phone for 30 minutes then finished of with him stating that he would have to pass as he was too far away, I enquired as to where he was which was 3 miles away.
I've sold a few cheap cars over the years - entertained some right plonkers, you learn to filter out the crap and ignore some of the messages.
Have one or two that stand out to me, one of which was for a £500 Peugeot, potential buyer had me on the phone for 30 minutes then finished of with him stating that he would have to pass as he was too far away, I enquired as to where he was which was 3 miles away.
It's really quite astonishing what a nuisance sub £1000 vehicles are to sell.
Some time ago I had an old but fully running and MOT'd Fiesta for sale for a few hundred quid and someone messaged me asking what's the lowest I would take etc etc
The negotiating got so stingy that even once I told him I'd accept £400, he wanted at least half a tank of fuel and for me to buy his train ticket!! I should have seen the warning signs but anyway, I said hold fire, you haven't seen the vehicle yet!
He said he would come in the next week or so and put down a deposit to secure - sure I said, here are my bank details. Then, he dabbled and erred. Asking all sorts of questions like is it taxed to get home. Then disappeared for a few hours.
Someone else phoned up - super pleasant, and immediately put down a deposit. I then informed the first buyer that the car was provisionally sold, and guess what? He flew into a complete rage, threatening legal action and physical violence. All this over a car I could scrap for not much less.
To tell you the truth, I've never learned my lesson quicker. If you get any odd or uneasy feeling from anyone when buying or selling, cut it off immediately. It's far easier to block someone two messages in than twenty messages in...
Some time ago I had an old but fully running and MOT'd Fiesta for sale for a few hundred quid and someone messaged me asking what's the lowest I would take etc etc
The negotiating got so stingy that even once I told him I'd accept £400, he wanted at least half a tank of fuel and for me to buy his train ticket!! I should have seen the warning signs but anyway, I said hold fire, you haven't seen the vehicle yet!
He said he would come in the next week or so and put down a deposit to secure - sure I said, here are my bank details. Then, he dabbled and erred. Asking all sorts of questions like is it taxed to get home. Then disappeared for a few hours.
Someone else phoned up - super pleasant, and immediately put down a deposit. I then informed the first buyer that the car was provisionally sold, and guess what? He flew into a complete rage, threatening legal action and physical violence. All this over a car I could scrap for not much less.
To tell you the truth, I've never learned my lesson quicker. If you get any odd or uneasy feeling from anyone when buying or selling, cut it off immediately. It's far easier to block someone two messages in than twenty messages in...
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