Advice please for my daughter
Discussion
Hi all
Little advice needed. My daughter and I work for the same company. This is her first job after college (she’s 18) and not up to speed on how working life works.
Anyway,our hours of employment are mon-Thurs 0730-1630 with 30mins unpaid lunch and Friday 0730-1230.
5 weeks ago she came into work feeling a bit under the weather and tried to tough it out,but ended up going home at approximately 12.00. She was ill that night and didn’t come into the next day. This was a Thursday and a Friday,which is important.
Her payslip this month has a deduction of £195 from the top line. Her hourly rate is £12.50. At this rate they have deducted 15.6hrs off her for being sick for approx 10hrs. She has queried it yesterday with no response so went to her boss today and he said it is because you was sick for a day and a half and they treat the Friday as a full day. Even if you do this it only adds up to 14hrs not 15.6.
Anyway I have told her they cannot do that as it does not state in our contracts they can do this but what it does state is our exact working times as stated above. If they try and treat Friday as a whole day they are effectively taking 3.5hrs of pay of which has already been worked.
For context they do treat Friday as a whole day for holiday entitlement. So,have I missed something or are they wrong?
Little advice needed. My daughter and I work for the same company. This is her first job after college (she’s 18) and not up to speed on how working life works.
Anyway,our hours of employment are mon-Thurs 0730-1630 with 30mins unpaid lunch and Friday 0730-1230.
5 weeks ago she came into work feeling a bit under the weather and tried to tough it out,but ended up going home at approximately 12.00. She was ill that night and didn’t come into the next day. This was a Thursday and a Friday,which is important.
Her payslip this month has a deduction of £195 from the top line. Her hourly rate is £12.50. At this rate they have deducted 15.6hrs off her for being sick for approx 10hrs. She has queried it yesterday with no response so went to her boss today and he said it is because you was sick for a day and a half and they treat the Friday as a full day. Even if you do this it only adds up to 14hrs not 15.6.
Anyway I have told her they cannot do that as it does not state in our contracts they can do this but what it does state is our exact working times as stated above. If they try and treat Friday as a whole day they are effectively taking 3.5hrs of pay of which has already been worked.
For context they do treat Friday as a whole day for holiday entitlement. So,have I missed something or are they wrong?
No advice as such, but 15.6hrs would be 2 x full days if your working week is 39hrs which I assume it could well be if you have 30mins unpaid break Mon-Thu and not on Friday(?)
So it suggests she's been classed as absent for the day she worked some hours.
Regarding the Friday being classed as a full day for holiday purposes, it makes sense as to do differently would mean you'd have to use more than a full day's holiday when taking one of the other days off, which you presumably don't.
So it suggests she's been classed as absent for the day she worked some hours.
Regarding the Friday being classed as a full day for holiday purposes, it makes sense as to do differently would mean you'd have to use more than a full day's holiday when taking one of the other days off, which you presumably don't.
Thanks for the reply.
You are correct,half hour is unpaid and it is a 39hr week
I agree for holiday purposes a whole day is needed but I think the reasons are they wanted people to not take the mick and book a half day (4hrs) and just come in for 1 hr on the Friday.
I guess my point was she should only be docked for the time she hasn’t worked (5 hrs Thursday & 5 hrs Friday) as she hasn’t worked already worked 29 hrs so to take anymore would be a breach of contract,in my opinion?
You are correct,half hour is unpaid and it is a 39hr week
I agree for holiday purposes a whole day is needed but I think the reasons are they wanted people to not take the mick and book a half day (4hrs) and just come in for 1 hr on the Friday.
I guess my point was she should only be docked for the time she hasn’t worked (5 hrs Thursday & 5 hrs Friday) as she hasn’t worked already worked 29 hrs so to take anymore would be a breach of contract,in my opinion?
I think you're right,... but it's 1hr and 36 mins.... so about £19
Whilst I don't disagree with challenging it out of principle, given it's almost a minimum wage type job, is it the kind of job they could easily get rid of her/replace her if she starts grumbling?
Also, would be interesting what the contra would be if she was sick on a Monday/Tuesday, would that just be "2" days.... or hours worked?
Whilst I don't disagree with challenging it out of principle, given it's almost a minimum wage type job, is it the kind of job they could easily get rid of her/replace her if she starts grumbling?
Also, would be interesting what the contra would be if she was sick on a Monday/Tuesday, would that just be "2" days.... or hours worked?
I'd query the hours as to me, that looks like a simple maths error.
As for the Friday half day.... This appears to be a 'perk' which advantages the employee both in terms of the working week and holiday calculation. But the trade off is what your daughter has suffered. You can't really have it both ways, sadly!
As for the Friday half day.... This appears to be a 'perk' which advantages the employee both in terms of the working week and holiday calculation. But the trade off is what your daughter has suffered. You can't really have it both ways, sadly!
ikarl said:
I think you're right,... but it's 1hr and 36 mins.... so about £19
Whilst I don't disagree with challenging it out of principle, given it's almost a minimum wage type job, is it the kind of job they could easily get rid of her/replace her if she starts grumbling?
Also, would be interesting what the contra would be if she was sick on a Monday/Tuesday, would that just be "2" days.... or hours worked?
They have trouble retaining staff for reasons I’ll not go into here.Whilst I don't disagree with challenging it out of principle, given it's almost a minimum wage type job, is it the kind of job they could easily get rid of her/replace her if she starts grumbling?
Also, would be interesting what the contra would be if she was sick on a Monday/Tuesday, would that just be "2" days.... or hours worked?
Good point on the remaining mon-Thurs-never thought of it that way. Trouble is no-one is offering the information across (see point 1 above)
StevieBee said:
I'd query the hours as to me, that looks like a simple maths error.
As for the Friday half day.... This appears to be a 'perk' which advantages the employee both in terms of the working week and holiday calculation. But the trade off is what your daughter has suffered. You can't really have it both ways, sadly!
I’ll agree it’s a perk to finish early on a Friday but it’s not a holiday calculation perk,although after reading the responses I can see a financial reason why they do it now.As for the Friday half day.... This appears to be a 'perk' which advantages the employee both in terms of the working week and holiday calculation. But the trade off is what your daughter has suffered. You can't really have it both ways, sadly!
Shocking in many ways. She worked a half day on the Thursday, so should not be deducted a full day for that as an absolute minimum. Most companies that do odd hours, e.g. a short day on Friday, calculate holidays/time off in hours. (Un)fortunately she is paid more than minimum wage so you cannot go the route that she has not been paid minimum wage for the hours she worked.
StevieBee said:
I'd query the hours as to me, that looks like a simple maths error.
As for the Friday half day.... This appears to be a 'perk' which advantages the employee both in terms of the working week and holiday calculation. But the trade off is what your daughter has suffered. You can't really have it both ways, sadly!
I’ll agree it’s a perk to finish early on a Friday but it’s not a holiday calculation perk,although after reading the responses I can see a financial reason why they do it now.As for the Friday half day.... This appears to be a 'perk' which advantages the employee both in terms of the working week and holiday calculation. But the trade off is what your daughter has suffered. You can't really have it both ways, sadly!
Update: they have agreed to reimburse her for 4hrs pay with no explanation on how these figures have been arrived at. And she has to wait until next month for it.
This is not a career for her,she’s just using it as a cash cow so she can get into something she wants to do.
Other things they have done- gave her her 1&2 month assessments then missed month 3 and instead did a 1 year assessment in which she was told her 3 month was being postponed until she completes training on 2 machines which they had no training plan for her even started. Delaying the 3 month means she cannot be taken on with a permanent contract. Training is part of my remit and no-one approached me to train her until I asked them!
She’s milking them for as much as possible I’m actively looking for something else.
This is not a career for her,she’s just using it as a cash cow so she can get into something she wants to do.
Other things they have done- gave her her 1&2 month assessments then missed month 3 and instead did a 1 year assessment in which she was told her 3 month was being postponed until she completes training on 2 machines which they had no training plan for her even started. Delaying the 3 month means she cannot be taken on with a permanent contract. Training is part of my remit and no-one approached me to train her until I asked them!
She’s milking them for as much as possible I’m actively looking for something else.
It looks to me like they treat each day as a “shift”. She completed 3 out of 5 shifts that week so was £195 down. Many years ago I was in an hourly role with very similar shift patterns and it was treated the same, although that was so long ago it has no relevance here.
It’s really up to her if she pursues it, but at least now she knows the score. Certainly now she’ll think twice about going in unless she’s well enough to complete a shift - that disadvantages the company more than her so is a little short sighted of them.
It’s really up to her if she pursues it, but at least now she knows the score. Certainly now she’ll think twice about going in unless she’s well enough to complete a shift - that disadvantages the company more than her so is a little short sighted of them.
This is one of those times where you have to decide which way to run it. You could quite easily go to ACAS now (well, she can) and see if that persuades them to pay the correct sum (ask for the EC conciliation process for an unlawful deduction of wages).
Or if you want message me and I will send one letter Pro Bono for her....
But either of the above will result in a marked card and I would expect a failure to complete probation... The other option is suck it up, but.....
Or if you want message me and I will send one letter Pro Bono for her....
But either of the above will result in a marked card and I would expect a failure to complete probation... The other option is suck it up, but.....
Thanks for all of the responses,and offers of help,much appreciated.
As said in a previous post she is now using this company as a cash cow to get where she wants to be. She has no interest in a future.
It’s more of a shame her first working experience has been like this,trust me this is just the tip of the iceberg.
As said in a previous post she is now using this company as a cash cow to get where she wants to be. She has no interest in a future.
It’s more of a shame her first working experience has been like this,trust me this is just the tip of the iceberg.
ikarl said:
I think you're right,... but it's 1hr and 36 mins.... so about £19
Whilst I don't disagree with challenging it out of principle, given it's almost a minimum wage type job, is it the kind of job they could easily get rid of her/replace her if she starts grumbling?
Also, would be interesting what the contra would be if she was sick on a Monday/Tuesday, would that just be "2" days.... or hours worked?
Equally she should be able to find a similarly paid job quite easily so find something else and just leave without notice on a day that will cause them maximum inconvenience.Whilst I don't disagree with challenging it out of principle, given it's almost a minimum wage type job, is it the kind of job they could easily get rid of her/replace her if she starts grumbling?
Also, would be interesting what the contra would be if she was sick on a Monday/Tuesday, would that just be "2" days.... or hours worked?
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