Co-op probate services?
Discussion
Hi, has anyone got experience of using them? I am one of three executors and my late mother's estate is over the IHT threshold and involves a property, 4 current accounts, savings accounts, premium bonds and a Hargreaves Lanstone managed shares portfolio... I don't fancy the admin of trying to settle and work out IHT.
Fortunately the Will is simple and I have account numbers for everything else.
Fortunately the Will is simple and I have account numbers for everything else.
Not used them, but I am also an executor of my mums estate, along with my brother and sister.
We also anticipated paying IHT and set about contacting all of her banks and investments to get values for the date she died. We added it all up and after carrying over dads IHT allowances we calculated that IHT was payable on £30k of her estate.
My sister filled in the IHT forms which she said was a royal pain in the arse to do, but if your mums affairs are quite simple then you might be ok.
We opted for the IHT to be paid from one of mums NS&I investments, and within days we got a letter from NS&I saying they had paid the money to the tax man.
We now have to wait for the tax man to decide if our figures are accurate so they can issue us with a reference number that we use for probate and which proves the IHT has been paid. We then apply for probate (actually we apply for letter of administration as mums will was stolen in a burglary, unbeknown to us). Once probate has been sorted we can cash in her investments and sell her house.
By the way, banks have their own probate threshold values. Some of mums banks thresholds were £35k, others £50k, and for any accounts where mums balance was below the threshold the bank paid us out that very same day we visited them with the death certificate, which surprised us. Those figures obviously still have to be included in the IHT calculations.
We also anticipated paying IHT and set about contacting all of her banks and investments to get values for the date she died. We added it all up and after carrying over dads IHT allowances we calculated that IHT was payable on £30k of her estate.
My sister filled in the IHT forms which she said was a royal pain in the arse to do, but if your mums affairs are quite simple then you might be ok.
We opted for the IHT to be paid from one of mums NS&I investments, and within days we got a letter from NS&I saying they had paid the money to the tax man.
We now have to wait for the tax man to decide if our figures are accurate so they can issue us with a reference number that we use for probate and which proves the IHT has been paid. We then apply for probate (actually we apply for letter of administration as mums will was stolen in a burglary, unbeknown to us). Once probate has been sorted we can cash in her investments and sell her house.
By the way, banks have their own probate threshold values. Some of mums banks thresholds were £35k, others £50k, and for any accounts where mums balance was below the threshold the bank paid us out that very same day we visited them with the death certificate, which surprised us. Those figures obviously still have to be included in the IHT calculations.
roca1976 said:
Hi, has anyone got experience of using them? I am one of three executors and my late mother's estate is over the IHT threshold and involves a property, 4 current accounts, savings accounts, premium bonds and a Hargreaves Lanstone managed shares portfolio... I don't fancy the admin of trying to settle and work out IHT.
Fortunately the Will is simple and I have account numbers for everything else.
Condolences firstly. Fortunately the Will is simple and I have account numbers for everything else.
Your Mothers affairs don’t sound too complex but yes there is still admin and it is a bit painful.
How much do Co-op want ( usually it’s a fixed percentage ) and would you as Executor consider that money well spent ?
Another alternative is to consider using a Solicitor who may be willing to give you a price based on a menu of what they will then do.
I used one on my Aunts estate which was complex as it involved music royalties and also an incoming inheritance to her estate. I had already done the heavy lifting which included selling her house ( she was already in a care home ) plus liquidating all her sticks and shares but didn’t fancy completing the various forms plus distribution of the proceeds.
I did a DOV ( in favour of my 3 children ) and there was also another beneficiary.
Her costs were £3k which frankly was well worth it.
roca1976 said:
Thank you for the replies.
I need to carry on the phone call with co-op to get a fixed quote.
My 2 brothers are the other executors and don't fancy the paperwork either!
Gifts weren't recorded so will require going through 7yrs for 4+ bank accounts to work out the sliding scale iht
I did the Gifts trawl myself which in fairness was relatively simple given her accounts were with Nationwide and their online Banking portal is pretty usual friendly including filters to activate to narrow the search. I need to carry on the phone call with co-op to get a fixed quote.
My 2 brothers are the other executors and don't fancy the paperwork either!
Gifts weren't recorded so will require going through 7yrs for 4+ bank accounts to work out the sliding scale iht
I was also pretty confident that she hadn’t made many ( unfortunately from an IHT perspective ).
Another reason for using a Solicitor was that through her work I was able to claim unused allowances from my Aunts husbands death some 45 years prior !
This alone “ saved “ her estate some £80k + in IHT.
Condolences.
I used a local solicitors firm for dads estate last year, was approx £1.3m with a house and a few bank accounts and trusts, we also got them to do ALL the admin including dealing with utilities accounts, house insurance and closing of accounts once probate was granted. It was pricey and in hindsight things like dealing with utilities and closing accounts we could have done ourselves much more quickly.
For a comparison for you the total legal fees including the house conveyancing was around £16,000.
I used a local solicitors firm for dads estate last year, was approx £1.3m with a house and a few bank accounts and trusts, we also got them to do ALL the admin including dealing with utilities accounts, house insurance and closing of accounts once probate was granted. It was pricey and in hindsight things like dealing with utilities and closing accounts we could have done ourselves much more quickly.
For a comparison for you the total legal fees including the house conveyancing was around £16,000.
roca1976 said:
thanks I have checked the Trustpilot review and it def depends on who you get as case worker.
The quote was £16.5k
I will also get a comparison from a 'proper' solicitor, I do like the idea of having someone local so I can go and hassle them if I think they are being slow.
Even if a proper solicitor they might well be slow !The quote was £16.5k
I will also get a comparison from a 'proper' solicitor, I do like the idea of having someone local so I can go and hassle them if I think they are being slow.
Just because you may end up paying more also doesn’t guarantee the service to match unfortunately.
I found emails a perfectly decent way of chasing if needed.
roca1976 said:
thanks I have checked the Trustpilot review and it def depends on who you get as case worker.
The quote was £16.5k
I will also get a comparison from a 'proper' solicitor, I do like the idea of having someone local so I can go and hassle them if I think they are being slow.
Unfortunately you need to be prepared for them being slowThe quote was £16.5k
I will also get a comparison from a 'proper' solicitor, I do like the idea of having someone local so I can go and hassle them if I think they are being slow.
I've just had a relative's estate settled after 18 months and it was reasonably straight forward. For info, the lawyer took 1% fee plus some other associated costs which were relatively minor in value.
Your estate sounds very similar to the one I dealt with. A last minute bequest a month before the person's death pushed it over the IHT limit.
I did everything myself.
The very last thing I was interested in was paying several months of full time wage to have a slower result. And more than likely you'll still have to do a great deal of the legwork supplying details to the solicitor.
I was quoted £3600 to fill in the IHT form alone. After obtaining the relevant valuations of contents, property and accounts, it was probably 3-4 hours of actual work.
The IHT form is the only truly time consuming part. The probate form for instance is just a couple of pages.
It's one of the legal areas that anyone should be able to do. All the people you'll be in contact with are very helpful.
The likelihood of a solicitor doing a better and faster job, providing it's a simple estate, is quite possibly nil.
If it's a bit messy - a beneficiary is bankrupt, a total mystery person, there's foreign money or property or there are potential disputes - then I probably would've bailed for the sake of quiet life.
I knew everyone in the will and there was zero prospect of aggravation.
I can totally see why people discount the idea of doing it themselves, but the most potentially lengthy and frustrating bits - waiitng for officialdom and the property sale - will be out of everyone's hands.
I did everything myself.
The very last thing I was interested in was paying several months of full time wage to have a slower result. And more than likely you'll still have to do a great deal of the legwork supplying details to the solicitor.
I was quoted £3600 to fill in the IHT form alone. After obtaining the relevant valuations of contents, property and accounts, it was probably 3-4 hours of actual work.
The IHT form is the only truly time consuming part. The probate form for instance is just a couple of pages.
It's one of the legal areas that anyone should be able to do. All the people you'll be in contact with are very helpful.
The likelihood of a solicitor doing a better and faster job, providing it's a simple estate, is quite possibly nil.
If it's a bit messy - a beneficiary is bankrupt, a total mystery person, there's foreign money or property or there are potential disputes - then I probably would've bailed for the sake of quiet life.
I knew everyone in the will and there was zero prospect of aggravation.
I can totally see why people discount the idea of doing it themselves, but the most potentially lengthy and frustrating bits - waiitng for officialdom and the property sale - will be out of everyone's hands.
Edited by bloomen on Sunday 30th November 03:33
bloomen said:
Your estate sounds very similar to the one I dealt with. A last minute bequest a month before the person's death pushed it over the IHT limit.
I did everything myself.
The very last thing I was interested in was paying several months of full time wage to have a slower result. And more than likely you'll still have to do a great deal of the legwork supplying details to the solicitor.
I was quoted £3600 to fill in the IHT form alone. After obtaining the relevant valuations of contents, property and accounts, it was probably 3-4 hours of actual work.
The IHT form is the only truly time consuming part. The probate form for instance is just a couple of pages.
It's one of the legal areas that anyone should be able to do. All the people you'll be in contact with are very helpful.
The likelihood of a solicitor doing a better and faster job, providing it's a simple estate, is quite possibly nil.
If it's a bit messy - a beneficiary is bankrupt, a total mystery person, there's foreign money or property or there are potential disputes - then I probably would've bailed for the sake of quiet life.
I knew everyone in the will and there was zero prospect of aggravation.
I can totally see why people discount the idea of doing it themselves, but the most potentially lengthy and frustrating bits - waiitng for officialdom and the property sale - will be out of everyone's hands.
I totally agree.I did everything myself.
The very last thing I was interested in was paying several months of full time wage to have a slower result. And more than likely you'll still have to do a great deal of the legwork supplying details to the solicitor.
I was quoted £3600 to fill in the IHT form alone. After obtaining the relevant valuations of contents, property and accounts, it was probably 3-4 hours of actual work.
The IHT form is the only truly time consuming part. The probate form for instance is just a couple of pages.
It's one of the legal areas that anyone should be able to do. All the people you'll be in contact with are very helpful.
The likelihood of a solicitor doing a better and faster job, providing it's a simple estate, is quite possibly nil.
If it's a bit messy - a beneficiary is bankrupt, a total mystery person, there's foreign money or property or there are potential disputes - then I probably would've bailed for the sake of quiet life.
I knew everyone in the will and there was zero prospect of aggravation.
I can totally see why people discount the idea of doing it themselves, but the most potentially lengthy and frustrating bits - waiitng for officialdom and the property sale - will be out of everyone's hands.
Edited by bloomen on Sunday 30th November 03:33
I have been an executor maybe 6-7 times. Right now I and my co executor (the deceased's son) are coming towards the end of dealing with my friend's estate. We have dealt with everything ourselves except for the sale of the deceased's house (he was a widower) for which we have engaged a solicitor.
The estate has a net value round about £850,000 to be split between 3 residual beneficiaries. The deceased's/ estate's assets are fairly typical:
- the house
- about a dozen shareholdings
- bank account
- some ISA's
- premium bonds
- State pension
- private pension
- car
- personal possessions
- funeral costs
- personal tax eg income tax
- probate fees
- o/s bills eg utilities
- solicitor's fees
- estate agent fees
- property cleaning, clearance, decorating fees
- credit cards o/s amounts
It looks a long list of things to do but in reality it is a straightforward task, IMO.
From DoD to getting Probate took 6 months, about the usual time in my experience. As said above by bloomen, it is a bit of a faff getting all the assets and liabilities information together and then completing all the paperwork ahead of Probate application. Once Probate has been obtained, estate administration usually becomes a straightforward task.
R.
I paid ca 2k to get a solicitor to do probate on.my Mums estate which was similar to yours but probably a bit simpler - no shares for example. This was 3 years ago. Quotes varied widely so shop around. Was quoted as much as 12k for the job.
I did it to avoid admin at a time when I really didn't feel like doing it. But tbh half the work is getting the paperwork and info together, and you have to do that anyway. The rest is just process and waiting for the Probate Office to do its thing.
For £16.5k I would DIY all day long. That's a a lot of money to pay for what amounts to a bit of reading, and then filling in some long forms.
I did it to avoid admin at a time when I really didn't feel like doing it. But tbh half the work is getting the paperwork and info together, and you have to do that anyway. The rest is just process and waiting for the Probate Office to do its thing.
For £16.5k I would DIY all day long. That's a a lot of money to pay for what amounts to a bit of reading, and then filling in some long forms.
bloomen said:
It's one of the legal areas that anyone should be able to do.
I agree, but it can be quite a complex affair if there are investments over and above simple bank accounts.I had to go into the Government Gateway and find some trusts that had been registered, which wasn't simple. I then had to navigate their sets of question to try and get on the pathway to seeing the certificate proving the trust had been registered, snd print it off. That took me a a couple of days of stress trying to figure out the pathway.
I'm fairly clued up with things, but found it stressful and I do wonder how people with even fewer brain cells than me manage to cope.
I think people ought to think long and hard about who they choose to be there executor as it can be quite in-depth, and not always a job that simply anyone would naturally be able to do.
The Gauge said:
I agree, but it can be quite a complex affair if there are investments over and above simple bank accounts.
I had to go into the Government Gateway and find some trusts that had been registered, which wasn't simple.
For most people it'll be a few bank accounts and obvious investment products. I had to go into the Government Gateway and find some trusts that had been registered, which wasn't simple.
Anything beyond that and I likely would've run away screaming.
I have found details of her accountant who filed her tax return every year. I will ask them for a quote to complete the iht400 documents and I will do the legwork closing accounts, etc. there is a decent value estate and splitting any professional fees three ways won't make much odds however no point paying someone £300 p/hr to phone up and cancel Sky etc.
I'm in the middle of the process of dealing with my wife's estate.
Valuing the estate was straightforward and no IHT to pay as calculated by the calculator on the government website. This also gives you the figures to out into the probate application.
The online application was sent on a Monday, the original copy of will and any other requested documents sent on the Wednesday. The following Monday email from probate office to say they had received the requested documents and would review, saying normally takes 12 weeks.
Same day that evening email arrives saying probate application approved and grants if probate would be in the post.
My solicitor fees would have been 2,000 just to get to the stage of filling in the IHT400 short form, anymore then fees rise rapidly including a % of the estate. Stuff that if you're organised it's not difficult.
If other executors don't want to have the bother they can write a declaration to renounce, as long as you're trusted.
The one thing I do recommend a solicitor for is if you need a deed of variation. You can diy, and there are templates, but getting the wording exactly correct, the signatures, witnessing etc is worth to avoid issues down the line in later years.
Valuing the estate was straightforward and no IHT to pay as calculated by the calculator on the government website. This also gives you the figures to out into the probate application.
The online application was sent on a Monday, the original copy of will and any other requested documents sent on the Wednesday. The following Monday email from probate office to say they had received the requested documents and would review, saying normally takes 12 weeks.
Same day that evening email arrives saying probate application approved and grants if probate would be in the post.
My solicitor fees would have been 2,000 just to get to the stage of filling in the IHT400 short form, anymore then fees rise rapidly including a % of the estate. Stuff that if you're organised it's not difficult.
If other executors don't want to have the bother they can write a declaration to renounce, as long as you're trusted.
The one thing I do recommend a solicitor for is if you need a deed of variation. You can diy, and there are templates, but getting the wording exactly correct, the signatures, witnessing etc is worth to avoid issues down the line in later years.
I did it myself when my Mum died. Partly because I was in-between jobs and had only managed to find some work part-time.
I did find it a bit stressful. Having to cope with the grief and deal with the bureaucracy. It didn't help as one of my sisters insisted on a separate bank account with all three of us being signatories (despite me offering to show my bank statements), and that took a bit of setting up as we were spread across England.
The best thing was finding that a lot of banks and finance organisations have a "bereavement helpline " where you get straight through to a human and not stuck in the telephone loop of infinity.
I probably spent a few hours a week sorting stuff and also dealing with the house sale. I probably also did myself down as both my sisters ended up with chattels that I didn't account for when splitting three ways.
I did find it a bit stressful. Having to cope with the grief and deal with the bureaucracy. It didn't help as one of my sisters insisted on a separate bank account with all three of us being signatories (despite me offering to show my bank statements), and that took a bit of setting up as we were spread across England.
The best thing was finding that a lot of banks and finance organisations have a "bereavement helpline " where you get straight through to a human and not stuck in the telephone loop of infinity.
I probably spent a few hours a week sorting stuff and also dealing with the house sale. I probably also did myself down as both my sisters ended up with chattels that I didn't account for when splitting three ways.
Dont think there is a right or wrong answer in terms of doing the process yourself versus using a 3rd party - depends on each persons situation, time, desire to get involved versus handing it over etc. I am in the process of dealing with my mothers estate and choose to use a 3rd party as I didn't have the time nor inclination to handle it myself. Don't regret that decision but absolutely regret choosing the Co-Op to be that 3rd party. Would not recommend at all!
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