Issues with an insurance company after a non fault collision
Discussion
Hi All,
I’m after a bit of advice. My mother was recently involved in a non fault collision whereby someone crashed into the back of her car when she was stationary.
The third party have admitted liability so there are no issues there but their insurers are now causing some major issues.
Her car isn’t worth a huge amount (probably around £5k) but it does have a private plate on it which is worth significantly more and also has a lot of sentimental value to her.
The third party issuers have immediately her that her car is a write off without inspecting it and only based on a couple of pictures which purely show a small crack in the rear bumper.
They have offered her slightly over market value but as she likes the car and there only appears to be very minor damage she informed them that she was contacting her insurers and they had arranged to inspect the car which they said was fine.
She’s now been contacted by her insurers who have told her that the car has already been marked as a write off by the other insurers and as such they now won’t inspect it.
She’s not agreed to this or accepted any type of offer but also now can’t get her numberplate transferred off the car because of this marker.
She hasn’t managed to speak with anyone at the third party insurers yet but where does she stand with this? Can her car just be written off without anyone looking at it, without her accepting any offers or her agreeing to anything.
Maybe I’m being overly suspicious but are they trying to pull a fast one to get the numberplate knowing it’s worth a lot more than the car?
Thanks
I’m after a bit of advice. My mother was recently involved in a non fault collision whereby someone crashed into the back of her car when she was stationary.
The third party have admitted liability so there are no issues there but their insurers are now causing some major issues.
Her car isn’t worth a huge amount (probably around £5k) but it does have a private plate on it which is worth significantly more and also has a lot of sentimental value to her.
The third party issuers have immediately her that her car is a write off without inspecting it and only based on a couple of pictures which purely show a small crack in the rear bumper.
They have offered her slightly over market value but as she likes the car and there only appears to be very minor damage she informed them that she was contacting her insurers and they had arranged to inspect the car which they said was fine.
She’s now been contacted by her insurers who have told her that the car has already been marked as a write off by the other insurers and as such they now won’t inspect it.
She’s not agreed to this or accepted any type of offer but also now can’t get her numberplate transferred off the car because of this marker.
She hasn’t managed to speak with anyone at the third party insurers yet but where does she stand with this? Can her car just be written off without anyone looking at it, without her accepting any offers or her agreeing to anything.
Maybe I’m being overly suspicious but are they trying to pull a fast one to get the numberplate knowing it’s worth a lot more than the car?
Thanks
Whats in a name said:
Hi All,
Maybe I m being overly suspicious but are they trying to pull a fast one to get the numberplate knowing it s worth a lot more than the car?
Thanks
They don't care about the number plate, it's not on their radar at all. Plus they don't own the number plate, so can't do anything with it anyway.Maybe I m being overly suspicious but are they trying to pull a fast one to get the numberplate knowing it s worth a lot more than the car?
Thanks
Why can't you go online and put the number on retention?
Sebring440 said:
Whats in a name said:
Hi All,
Maybe I m being overly suspicious but are they trying to pull a fast one to get the numberplate knowing it s worth a lot more than the car?
Thanks
They don't care about the number plate, it's not on their radar at all. Plus they don't own the number plate, so can't do anything with it anyway.Maybe I m being overly suspicious but are they trying to pull a fast one to get the numberplate knowing it s worth a lot more than the car?
Thanks
Why can't you go online and put the number on retention?
Is the logbook still with your mum? She's still technically the registered keeper of the car until she has transferred this to the insurer.
When one of my cars got written off I informed the insurer that I would like to retain my private reg. They just said no problem, do the retention process and then send us the new logbook when it arrives.
Put the number plate on retention so it's not longer an issue until the situation is resolved.
I had a similar incident I had to claim for, though I went through my own insurers.
Have they said what flavour of write off they consider it to be? Doesn't necessarily preclude her from buying it back at a basic cost.
I had a similar incident I had to claim for, though I went through my own insurers.
Have they said what flavour of write off they consider it to be? Doesn't necessarily preclude her from buying it back at a basic cost.
If she wants to keep it then the third party insurers will likely pay her out minus the salvage value of the car and she keeps it and can repair it herself. It’ll have the writeoff marker on it but she should still come out on top and get to keep the car.
She should tell the third party insurers she wants to keep the car and ask them for a payout minus the salvage value, which is typically very low.
She should tell the third party insurers she wants to keep the car and ask them for a payout minus the salvage value, which is typically very low.
Not 100% certain of the timing but I managed to do mine online when it was written off similarly.
Whilst it is possible it was before they officially wrote it off it was the day after I accepted the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th offer and on the day of collection by copart.
Having said that, as others have said, just get them to make on offer to keep the car & deal with it as you see fit, you will then still have the car complete with plate.
Whilst it is possible it was before they officially wrote it off it was the day after I accepted the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th offer and on the day of collection by copart.
Having said that, as others have said, just get them to make on offer to keep the car & deal with it as you see fit, you will then still have the car complete with plate.
Whats in a name said:
Can her car just be written off without anyone looking at it, without her accepting any offers or her agreeing to anything.
None of the above replies seem to answer the OP's main question. How can an insurance company (with whom the OP is not a policyholder) make such a unilateral decision?
GasEngineer said:
Whats in a name said:
Can her car just be written off without anyone looking at it, without her accepting any offers or her agreeing to anything.
None of the above replies seem to answer the OP's main question. How can an insurance company (with whom the OP is not a policyholder) make such a unilateral decision?
As far as I can see, a thirdy party insurance company can't 'write off' someone else's property any more than I can declare your car written off.
It is the OP's car until a settlement is agreed.
ETA: I assume that an insurance company might have special access to DVLA, and can update a record... However, there is no way they should update a record on a car they don't own.
are you certain the car has actually been written off? I'd be filling in the online DVLA retention form on the assumption that it hasn't yet been done (I would expect the insurance company to only do this after payment has been made), and seeing what happens.
if not, the vehicle still sounds like it meets all of the DVLA's requirements to have the plate put on retention (must "be available for inspection" and "move under its own power") - so not sure what the problem is?
if not, the vehicle still sounds like it meets all of the DVLA's requirements to have the plate put on retention (must "be available for inspection" and "move under its own power") - so not sure what the problem is?
Apologies for format but I have tried to answer your points below each one made.
quote=Whats in a name]Hi All,
I m after a bit of advice. My mother was recently involved in a non fault collision whereby someone crashed into the back of her car when she was stationary.
The third party have admitted liability so there are no issues there but their insurers are now causing some major issues.
They are adjusting the loss.
Your Mother claimed off them rather than going through her own Insurers but did she at the time actually mention as information to her Insurer ?
Her car isn t worth a huge amount (probably around £5k) but it does have a private plate on it which is worth significantly more and also has a lot of sentimental value to her.
Usually if written off it is too late to put the plate on retention.
The third party issuers have immediately her that her car is a write off without inspecting it and only based on a couple of pictures which purely show a small crack in the rear bumper.
Whether they are too busy or not I can only guess but written off just based on one photo doesn’t seem right.
Obviously a crack in the bumper won’t show what possible damage is underneath - difficult to comment without knowing more details about the crash.
They have offered her slightly over market value but as she likes the car and there only appears to be very minor damage she informed them that she was contacting her insurers and they had arranged to inspect the car which they said was fine.
As above she should have contacted her own Insurers at the outset if only for information.
She s now been contacted by her insurers who have told her that the car has already been marked as a write off by the other insurers and as such they now won t inspect it.
Unfortunately they are probably correct.
She s not agreed to this or accepted any type of offer but also now can t get her numberplate transferred off the car because of this marker.
This is the bit I don’t quite understand. Was there no conversation between the TP’s Insurer and herself ?
If not is appears they have made that decision but above you said she had been offered above market value which indicates some form of correspondence ?
She hasn t managed to speak with anyone at the third party insurers yet but where does she stand with this? Can her car just be written off without anyone looking at it, without her accepting any offers or her agreeing to anything.
I would honestly have thought they should have discussed this prior to the decision but I guess if they think the damage is far worse than a simple crack indicates then yes they could well write it off.
Maybe I m being overly suspicious but are they trying to pull a fast one to get the numberplate knowing it s worth a lot more than the car?
Absolutely not. The TP Insurer neither cares or indeed wants to pull on fast one on this.
Even if the plate matches the Insurers name I doubt that is even entered their claims adjusters mind.
Thanks
[/quote]
Sadly I think as regards the plate it’s now too late but I would still be talking to the TP in terms of the write off conversation as it appears that has been made a design with no prior.
Legally can they do that ?
If they can I would still expect a pre conversation.
If it wasn’t for the plate it sounds as if your Mum has done ok out of it.
quote=Whats in a name]Hi All,
I m after a bit of advice. My mother was recently involved in a non fault collision whereby someone crashed into the back of her car when she was stationary.
The third party have admitted liability so there are no issues there but their insurers are now causing some major issues.
They are adjusting the loss.
Your Mother claimed off them rather than going through her own Insurers but did she at the time actually mention as information to her Insurer ?
Her car isn t worth a huge amount (probably around £5k) but it does have a private plate on it which is worth significantly more and also has a lot of sentimental value to her.
Usually if written off it is too late to put the plate on retention.
The third party issuers have immediately her that her car is a write off without inspecting it and only based on a couple of pictures which purely show a small crack in the rear bumper.
Whether they are too busy or not I can only guess but written off just based on one photo doesn’t seem right.
Obviously a crack in the bumper won’t show what possible damage is underneath - difficult to comment without knowing more details about the crash.
They have offered her slightly over market value but as she likes the car and there only appears to be very minor damage she informed them that she was contacting her insurers and they had arranged to inspect the car which they said was fine.
As above she should have contacted her own Insurers at the outset if only for information.
She s now been contacted by her insurers who have told her that the car has already been marked as a write off by the other insurers and as such they now won t inspect it.
Unfortunately they are probably correct.
She s not agreed to this or accepted any type of offer but also now can t get her numberplate transferred off the car because of this marker.
This is the bit I don’t quite understand. Was there no conversation between the TP’s Insurer and herself ?
If not is appears they have made that decision but above you said she had been offered above market value which indicates some form of correspondence ?
She hasn t managed to speak with anyone at the third party insurers yet but where does she stand with this? Can her car just be written off without anyone looking at it, without her accepting any offers or her agreeing to anything.
I would honestly have thought they should have discussed this prior to the decision but I guess if they think the damage is far worse than a simple crack indicates then yes they could well write it off.
Maybe I m being overly suspicious but are they trying to pull a fast one to get the numberplate knowing it s worth a lot more than the car?
Absolutely not. The TP Insurer neither cares or indeed wants to pull on fast one on this.
Even if the plate matches the Insurers name I doubt that is even entered their claims adjusters mind.
Thanks
[/quote]
Sadly I think as regards the plate it’s now too late but I would still be talking to the TP in terms of the write off conversation as it appears that has been made a design with no prior.
Legally can they do that ?
If they can I would still expect a pre conversation.
If it wasn’t for the plate it sounds as if your Mum has done ok out of it.
GasEngineer said:
Whats in a name said:
Can her car just be written off without anyone looking at it, without her accepting any offers or her agreeing to anything.
None of the above replies seem to answer the OP's main question. How can an insurance company (with whom the OP is not a policyholder) make such a unilateral decision?
Edit: even her own insurer can't write the car off without her agreement.
I'd be making things uncomfortable for them given their unwarranted action (assuming the owner hasn't inadvertently agreed to anything).
Ultimately the driver of the other car is liable for whatever it costs to put things right for OP's mother. I don't see why she couldn't issue a claim against them to rectify the situation, regardless of it being their insurer who will pick it up when it's passed to them.
Not sure it can be written off that quick.
Your Mum still owns the vehicle (and rights to the plate).
Even if they place a CAT marker on the vehicle then it doesn't make the plate non transferrable, it merely delays transferring ownership of the car.
My first priority would be to negotiate to keep the car. Ask the simple question, I want to keep the car, what will you charge me for the salvage?
If you fail to retain the car then simply call the DVLA and arrange for the plate to go on retention. DO NOT ACCEPT an offer or send V5 until you're happy with everything. At the moment it remains your Mums car until she accepts an offer
Your Mum still owns the vehicle (and rights to the plate).
Even if they place a CAT marker on the vehicle then it doesn't make the plate non transferrable, it merely delays transferring ownership of the car.
My first priority would be to negotiate to keep the car. Ask the simple question, I want to keep the car, what will you charge me for the salvage?
If you fail to retain the car then simply call the DVLA and arrange for the plate to go on retention. DO NOT ACCEPT an offer or send V5 until you're happy with everything. At the moment it remains your Mums car until she accepts an offer
Thanks all.
To clarify a few points.
My Mother did notify her insurers at the time of the incident and they have recorded it but were also ok with the TP insurers dealing as they had already admitted fault.
As far as I can see the only damage is the crack in the bumper. I’m not a mechanic but having had a look there is no intrusion into the boot or under the floor and when putting your hand behind the bumper there is no other obvious damage and all supports etc still seem straight.
She has tried to put the numberplate on retention online but this gets rejected as the car has been marked as written off.
The third party insurers have not asked to inspect the vehicle but instead have immediately offered either a cash amount for the vehicle as a write off or a smaller amount for her to keep the car neither of these options were accepted as she wanted the car to be inspected first and they weee told this.
Despite this they have marked it as written off on the database but didn’t tell her they’d done this.
My mother’s insurers had arrange for the car to be inspected by one of their garages but have now cancelled this because the car is now recorded as written off.
Having spoken to them today they have now said that they will provide their own valuation next week and will now take on dealing with this.
They have also explained to her how she can get the numberplate off (you have to send a form in the post to the DVLA).
I have emphasised to her not to accept any offers handover any paperwork or send copies to any insurers until she has the retention certificate back.
Again thank you all for the answers
To clarify a few points.
My Mother did notify her insurers at the time of the incident and they have recorded it but were also ok with the TP insurers dealing as they had already admitted fault.
As far as I can see the only damage is the crack in the bumper. I’m not a mechanic but having had a look there is no intrusion into the boot or under the floor and when putting your hand behind the bumper there is no other obvious damage and all supports etc still seem straight.
She has tried to put the numberplate on retention online but this gets rejected as the car has been marked as written off.
The third party insurers have not asked to inspect the vehicle but instead have immediately offered either a cash amount for the vehicle as a write off or a smaller amount for her to keep the car neither of these options were accepted as she wanted the car to be inspected first and they weee told this.
Despite this they have marked it as written off on the database but didn’t tell her they’d done this.
My mother’s insurers had arrange for the car to be inspected by one of their garages but have now cancelled this because the car is now recorded as written off.
Having spoken to them today they have now said that they will provide their own valuation next week and will now take on dealing with this.
They have also explained to her how she can get the numberplate off (you have to send a form in the post to the DVLA).
I have emphasised to her not to accept any offers handover any paperwork or send copies to any insurers until she has the retention certificate back.
Again thank you all for the answers
Whats in a name said:
Thanks all.
To clarify a few points.
My Mother did notify her insurers at the time of the incident and they have recorded it but were also ok with the TP insurers dealing as they had already admitted fault.
As far as I can see the only damage is the crack in the bumper. I m not a mechanic but having had a look there is no intrusion into the boot or under the floor and when putting your hand behind the bumper there is no other obvious damage and all supports etc still seem straight.
She has tried to put the numberplate on retention online but this gets rejected as the car has been marked as written off.
The third party insurers have not asked to inspect the vehicle but instead have immediately offered either a cash amount for the vehicle as a write off or a smaller amount for her to keep the car neither of these options were accepted as she wanted the car to be inspected first and they weee told this.
Despite this they have marked it as written off on the database but didn t tell her they d done this.
My mother s insurers had arrange for the car to be inspected by one of their garages but have now cancelled this because the car is now recorded as written off.
Having spoken to them today they have now said that they will provide their own valuation next week and will now take on dealing with this.
They have also explained to her how she can get the numberplate off (you have to send a form in the post to the DVLA).
I have emphasised to her not to accept any offers handover any paperwork or send copies to any insurers until she has the retention certificate back.
Again thank you all for the answers
This term written off just means it's beyond economical repair. The car will have been issued a Cat designation and unless it is a Cat A or B it can be put back on the road. To clarify a few points.
My Mother did notify her insurers at the time of the incident and they have recorded it but were also ok with the TP insurers dealing as they had already admitted fault.
As far as I can see the only damage is the crack in the bumper. I m not a mechanic but having had a look there is no intrusion into the boot or under the floor and when putting your hand behind the bumper there is no other obvious damage and all supports etc still seem straight.
She has tried to put the numberplate on retention online but this gets rejected as the car has been marked as written off.
The third party insurers have not asked to inspect the vehicle but instead have immediately offered either a cash amount for the vehicle as a write off or a smaller amount for her to keep the car neither of these options were accepted as she wanted the car to be inspected first and they weee told this.
Despite this they have marked it as written off on the database but didn t tell her they d done this.
My mother s insurers had arrange for the car to be inspected by one of their garages but have now cancelled this because the car is now recorded as written off.
Having spoken to them today they have now said that they will provide their own valuation next week and will now take on dealing with this.
They have also explained to her how she can get the numberplate off (you have to send a form in the post to the DVLA).
I have emphasised to her not to accept any offers handover any paperwork or send copies to any insurers until she has the retention certificate back.
Again thank you all for the answers
So go and find out what Cat the car is.
Whats in a name said:
Can her car just be written off without anyone looking at it, without her accepting any offers or her agreeing to anything.
From the replies above it appears that the answer is no. It will be an interesting call when the OP calls the TP insurers to tell them that they have no business writing off his mother's car and will they please undo it.
AFAIK an insurance company, subject to following the industry guidelines, can "write off" any car they have interest in. When I say write off, I mean apply a category marker to. It is important to interpret this properly. It simply means "the insurer has determined there is damage and has decided not to repair this car".
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...
The scheme is NOT designed to "protect" third parties who might wish to keep their car (and thus have an interest in it not being categorised, even if it is damaged). It is designed to protect the wider public from bent cars. Or to put it another way, if an insurer decided its not worth repairing this (and paying out instead); why has someone else decided it IS worth repairing it and later selling it on. Of course, economics and the price of hire cars etc come into play. I think the wider buying public knows that Cat N cars can be very minor damage and easily fixable, so there is a subset who won't mind it. Of course, at a discounted price.
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...
The scheme is NOT designed to "protect" third parties who might wish to keep their car (and thus have an interest in it not being categorised, even if it is damaged). It is designed to protect the wider public from bent cars. Or to put it another way, if an insurer decided its not worth repairing this (and paying out instead); why has someone else decided it IS worth repairing it and later selling it on. Of course, economics and the price of hire cars etc come into play. I think the wider buying public knows that Cat N cars can be very minor damage and easily fixable, so there is a subset who won't mind it. Of course, at a discounted price.
paul_c123 said:
AFAIK an insurance company, subject to following the industry guidelines, can "write off" any car they have interest in. When I say write off, I mean apply a category marker to. It is important to interpret this properly. It simply means "the insurer has determined there is damage and has decided not to repair this car".
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...
The scheme is NOT designed to "protect" third parties who might wish to keep their car (and thus have an interest in it not being categorised, even if it is damaged). It is designed to protect the wider public from bent cars. Or to put it another way, if an insurer decided its not worth repairing this (and paying out instead); why has someone else decided it IS worth repairing it and later selling it on. Of course, economics and the price of hire cars etc come into play. I think the wider buying public knows that Cat N cars can be very minor damage and easily fixable, so there is a subset who won't mind it. Of course, at a discounted price.
Whilst they can obviously elect to write off a car I would suggest that at the very least there needs to be at least a conversation with the claimant first who may also decide to purchase said car from them. https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...
The scheme is NOT designed to "protect" third parties who might wish to keep their car (and thus have an interest in it not being categorised, even if it is damaged). It is designed to protect the wider public from bent cars. Or to put it another way, if an insurer decided its not worth repairing this (and paying out instead); why has someone else decided it IS worth repairing it and later selling it on. Of course, economics and the price of hire cars etc come into play. I think the wider buying public knows that Cat N cars can be very minor damage and easily fixable, so there is a subset who won't mind it. Of course, at a discounted price.
Additionally an inspection via one photo is not a physical inspection.
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