London; pied-à-terre

[AndrewCrown]

Mrs C and I are contemplating a reorganisation of our life. Whilst we adore Kent, we would like to live by the sea perhaps Devon/Cornwall.

One of our hesitations is connectivity to Gatwick/Heathrow and access to London & environs for my business, culture and where all our friends reside.

An idea we re considering is a second home as a London/ Suburb Pied de terre. Must have parking/outdoor space.

We would be interested in other PH ers opinions/ experiences of plumbing that into your life and the pro s and cons etc.

Considering here:



Would be grateful for your thoughts / ideas

[PhilboSE]

I lnow all those areas well enough. I also split my time between the coast and the SE.

It really depends what you want - what’s more important, commute into London or access to airports? A lot of places inside that area actually have pretty grim commute times. How would you access the airports - public transport or drive?

Finally, what kind of property (flat/semi/detached) and budget? Some areas in your zone are expensive, some are a bit grim.

[bristolracer]

Devon dweller here.

Can’t give you any guidance on your living arrangements.

Transport to this part of the world is currently appalling and won’t get better for some time

The A303 is about to get dug up again, if the Stonehenge tunnel comes off it could be decades of misery.
The trains simply do not work (my daughter was commuting to London and every single train was late delayed or cancelled )
The only connecting flight from Newquay has just collapsed into bankruptcy.

So if you come here be prepared to go back up east the day before any commitments.

[A M G]

The Shepperton branch line extends to the tip of your search area, so offers direct access to Waterloo along its route.

FWIW Teddington has mainline station with 35-ish minutes to Waterloo and sensible taxi ride to LHR (personal record is front door to airside T5 in 30 minutes). Plus bonus of being adjacent to Bushy park and the Thames for green space.

Richmond adds District line access but at a premium, of course. Plus Richmond park and the Thames.

Twickenham if you want, or can live with, the rugby crowds.

[paulwirral]

I’ve just done the same in the north west , no where near the figures down south but you’ve got extra stamp duty and double council tax for which ever you declare main residence wherever you choose , only you can do the numbers .
We considered only for work purposes for my wife and it’s cheaper to stay in hotels or take the hit on travelling time and depreciation on car mileage .
Look at all angles very carefully, , not many of them add up

[mikebradford]

Probably easier to buy in jersey or guernsey and fly into London than commute from Cornwall.

Depending on how long you spend outside of the country the tax savings will over time may pay for the property.

[BlackTails]

AndrewCrown said:

Mrs C and I are contemplating a reorganisation of our life. Whilst we adore Kent, we would like to live by the sea perhaps Devon/Cornwall.

One of our hesitations is connectivity to Gatwick/Heathrow and access to London & environs for my business, culture and where all our friends reside.

An idea we re considering is a second home as a London/ Suburb Pied de terre. Must have parking/outdoor space.

We would be interested in other PH ers opinions/ experiences of plumbing that into your life and the pro s and cons etc.

Considering here:



Would be grateful for your thoughts / ideas

Is the thinking here that the West Country rules itself out because it won’t have the transport links you mention, but you current place in Kent has those so the London place doesn’t need them? Or are you looking for the transport links from the London place?

If the latter, Gatwick is frankly a pain to get to from most places in your swathe by road. Your best best to get there is the train which means places around Victoria or Clapham. If you’re determined to drive you really want a place close to the A3 or M3 to go M25/M23.

Heathrow is ok to get to by road from places close to the A4/M4, and after that the M3/A3. By train, either Paddington or somewhere on the Elizabeth line.

For central London you just need a tube station.

Clapham balances all three requirements reasonably well - northern line into the west end, train from Clapham Junction to Gatwick, and pretty ok access to the A3 or A4 for Heathrow.

[BunkMoreland]

BlackTails said:

AndrewCrown said:

Mrs C and I are contemplating a reorganisation of our life. Whilst we adore Kent, we would like to live by the sea perhaps Devon/Cornwall.

One of our hesitations is connectivity to Gatwick/Heathrow and access to London & environs for my business, culture and where all our friends reside.

An idea we re considering is a second home as a London/ Suburb Pied de terre. Must have parking/outdoor space.

We would be interested in other PH ers opinions/ experiences of plumbing that into your life and the pro s and cons etc.

Considering here:



Would be grateful for your thoughts / ideas

Is the thinking here that the West Country rules itself out because it won t have the transport links you mention, but you current place in Kent has those so the London place doesn t need them? Or are you looking for the transport links from the London place?

If the latter, Gatwick is frankly a pain to get to from most places in your swathe by road. Your best best to get there is the train which means places around Victoria or Clapham. If you re determined to drive you really want a place close to the A3 or M3 to go M25/M23.

Heathrow is ok to get to by road from places close to the A4/M4, and after that the M3/A3. By train, either Paddington or somewhere on the Elizabeth line.

For central London you just need a tube station.

Clapham balances all three requirements reasonably well - northern line into the west end, train from Clapham Junction to Gatwick, and pretty ok access to the A3 or A4 for Heathrow.

Good summary.

I had a quick look on Zoopla

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/71193449




Neighbours have a Aston DBX so clearly a bit of money in that road, and its gated, which "in theory" should limit asbo st. Plus you are only a short walk from theLegendary Infernos nightclub

[AndrewCrown]

Gentlemen
Thank you very much for your considered thoughts Very helpful indeed.

Agree Paul, it s one big sum I need to work out.
BT, yes triangulation on roads to airport good call.

A little more for this thesis/conundrum/pie in the sky

• Factor out the underground, not interested in using it at all for various reasons. We re happy with a long Taxi or Uber across the capital for work or play.
• We need the airport connection for the added complication of our 33% French life and my business also calls for extended travel.
• There is a financial aspect too. Parking a chunk of change in a London property as a 20 odd year investment, I feel will generally over the long term may serve us well (Net of tax and expenses). In addition, it will be relatively straight forward to realise quickly.

Understand the Southwest to Pied de Terre initial connection will be a little tiresome (noted Bristol & Phil), and it will be a question of scheduling meetings/travel efficiently.

Looking at property a small detached or an end terrace might suit. Not really into flats and their rules and the general fuss of having to deal with communal issues.

Tricky one. Had not considered Jersey Thank you M.B.

[-Cappo-]

AndrewCrown said:

• There is a financial aspect too. Parking a chunk of change in a London property as a 20 odd year investment, I feel will generally over the long term may serve us well (Net of tax and expenses). In addition, it will be relatively straight forward to realise quickly.

I'd be cautious of that as one of the reasons to buy. We sold a property in Battersea Park Rd, 5 mins walk from Clapham Junction, in 2014. It was sold again in 2021 for just 3% more than we accepted, and even today, 11 years later, the Zoopla estimate of its value is a shade under 10% higher than we sold for. In the agent's listing, it appeared to be in as-good condition, with some updates, as when we sold it. Even a basic bank savings account would have delivered rather more than that over that period, exclusive of additional expenses. Of course, future results will vary widely according to location and property type/value, but we were very surprised by how little the value of ours had/has increased.

For you, the other benefits may well outweigh the financials, but the above is a real-world example.

[Jeremy-75qq8]

Try Bosham. Easy a3

Has the coast. Not bad for Gatwick.

Nice place.

[LooneyTunes]

AndrewCrown said:

A little more for this thesis/conundrum/pie in the sky

• Factor out the underground, not interested in using it at all for various reasons. We re happy with a long Taxi or Uber across the capital for work or play.
• We need the airport connection for the added complication of our 33% French life and my business also calls for extended travel.
• There is a financial aspect too. Parking a chunk of change in a London property as a 20 odd year investment, I feel will generally over the long term may serve us well (Net of tax and expenses). In addition, it will be relatively straight forward to realise quickly.

Understand the Southwest to Pied de Terre initial connection will be a little tiresome (noted Bristol & Phil), and it will be a question of scheduling meetings/travel efficiently.

For a number of years I had a London pad and did a weekly commute out of town.

I hate the underground with a passion too but, if your transit takes place on a Monday morning/Friday evening, you may find it (and the train) the lesser of two evils. Obviously that might change depending on how much stuff you move each time, transport links at the other end, etc.

Similarly, when you look at the long Uber/taxi rides I found them to be a PITA at peak times, when there was bad weather (and fewer want to walk), or there are strikes. Conversely, if you build a relationship with a decent driver, a longish ride to the airport isn’t (if you’re doing it early/late in the day) onerous at all.

Was initially just off Sloane Square, then closer to the office on Canary Wharf: the former was obviously much better for amenities, the latter made getting to/from the office a breeze (easy walk) instead of ages in a cable driving at peak time. A good number of people did drive in from the other side of town though, but that’s because that’s where they’d put down proper roots and (having it as their main base) wanted access to the social side.

If I was doing it again I’d still choose based on what fitted best overall: with much greater control over diary, kids at an age that they’d use a London place too, etc I’d locate based on amenities/social life. Entirely different to when living closer to the office saved a valuable 2hrs a day and a lot of stress. If it was only the occasional meeting, as it would be now, choice would be almost entirely based on non-work considerations.

The angle you don’t mention is rent vs buy. I, others I know whose main home was outside the city, decided that renting a London pad was the more sensible option. Mine wasn’t outrageous but one colleague decided it made sense even at £20-25k/mth. No SDLT, no responsibility for maintenance, overall less hassle…

MrsLT have looked at London places since I got out of town. If it’s going to be London then it seems a bit pointless being too far out of town. Like you I’d want some outside space, parking would be handy but perhaps not essential, always end up with apartments with with roof terraces in very central areas with decent restaurants, easy access to theatre etc, looking like the best option.

[The Mad Monk]

I live at the Southern boundary of your map. nice area, plenty of green spaces, restaurants, pubs, cafes etc. good train service from Walton/Surbiton up to town, or a cab to Heathrow.Gatwick, if you refuse to use the Tube.

[kent_phil]

We did a similar move 3 years ago, although from Bedford down to a village outside Padstow - original plan was to get somewhere in town for during the week / visiting friends / nights out but still haven't executed on that.

To fund buying a place in town would mean selling another property we have down here and property prices in the south west are terrible, if you can get any form of offer in the first place. Historically this village would never have any houses on the market, they all went before being listed - now there are probably 20+ that have been sitting around for months.

I did the flight link for the first two years but switched to the train this year due to the flight link looking shaky financially (and as pointed out above, has now gone pop), increased costs, unreliable in the winter and air traffic control restrictions at Gatwick in the summer. Once a month we were bused down or left to make our own way up and that was just too disruptive to work.

Now I drive up to Exeter and take the train each week, similar time door to door (I leave at 6am and am in the office by 10am) but can work on the train and more flexible if my diary changes. I had a customer event to attend after work last Thursday which would have previously involved another night in a hotel but could just jump on a later train and still get home the same night. In the summer if I have an afternoon of cancelled meetings then I head home early.


As for the big airports, depends on where you are travelling to. If I'm going to the US then I've used Aer Lingus from Newquay, Exeter and Bristol to jump through Dublin. End to end time is great as you clear US immigration in Dublin.

Going east then I take the train as normal into Paddington then Liz line back to Heathrow - I left home at 6am and was in Heathrow at 10:30am for a flight to Dubai a couple of weeks ago.

Wouldn't change a thing about it though, no regrets especially when walking the dogs on the beach...

[nyt]

I used to live in this block: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/158644145#/...

Expect to pay ~ £450 for a 1 bed with parking space (cheap for London). There is a communal garden

Close to London Bridge station ( 30mins to LGW). and Jubilee/Elizabeth line to LHR

[ettore]

I would seriously look along the Elizabeth line - it’s really not like the underground and transforms cross London travel (and experience).

You could also live further out, both nearer Heathrow but also taking a huge chunk out of the driving time by avoiding the crap bit of actually getting in and out of London.

Otherwise, go the other way and just be completely central.

[scot_aln]

nyt said:

I used to live in this block: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/158644145#/...

Expect to pay ~ £450 for a 1 bed with parking space (cheap for London). There is a communal garden

Close to London Bridge station ( 30mins to LGW). and Jubilee/Elizabeth line to LHR

The almost £5k a year in service charges is one of the painful bits on that albeit not unusual and I'm sure steadily increasing year by year. Out of interest (if you roughly recall) how much has that increased since you were there?

[Snow and Rocks]

Nothing to add about the London bit but can echo what others have said about getting to and from Devon/Cornwall.

My wife has a colleague in Cornwall and it's significantly easier for my wife to get to London from here in darkest Aberdeenshire than it is for them. They always travel up the day before, she never does and is at the London office by 9am. Same with catching connecting flights, they need to book a hotel at each end of the trip.

[renmure]

ettore said:

Otherwise, go the other way and just be completely central.

Nothing to add to the OP but, as someone up in NE Scotland, I read the thread title and assumed we were talking about somewhere you could throw a stone from and it might land near Big Ben.

[Bill]

AndrewCrown said:

• We need the airport connection for the added complication of our 33% French life and my business also calls for extended travel.

Not sure I CBA splitting my life 3 ways. Could you not get more coast action in Kent or France?

And Devon and Cornwall are a hell of a trek, and worse in the summer. We're on the south coast in Dorset and it's a pain going to London against the traffic!