The empty 7am train from Manchester to London

[butchstewie]

How does this actually happen?

Manchester-London 7am ‘ghost train’ will now carry passengers after outcry over regulator’s decision

It sounds so mad I honestly can't understand it.

[No ideas for a name]

butchstewie said:

How does this actually happen?

Manchester-London 7am ghost train will now carry passengers after outcry over regulator s decision

It sounds so mad I honestly can't understand it.

It is somewhat misleading as the train wasn't to run 'empty'
It was supposed to be being used to 'reposition' train crews so they could run the daily service.

However, I assume it wouldn't be full of train personel, so it would make sense to open that up to paying passengers as well.

[BikeBikeBIke]

It's in the article:

"the running of this 7am service could have a negative impact on reliability and punctuality of services on the west coast mainline"

[KAgantua]

butchstewie said:

How does this actually happen?

Manchester-London 7am ghost train will now carry passengers after outcry over regulator s decision

It sounds so mad I honestly can't understand it.

Literally from first section of article:

' – but would, as the Guardian reported on Saturday, have kept running empty from Piccadilly each day so it could run morning trains back out of Euston'

[shed driver]

Also, if there are any delays it can easily be diverted via a different route (subject to route knowledge) without impacting a train full of passengers.

SD.

[Countdown]

Rail Regulator does a U-Turn

[Mortarboard]

BikeBikeBIke said:

It's in the article:

"the running of this 7am service could have a negative impact on reliability and punctuality of services on the west coast mainline"

So basically made the service more unreliable due to public pressure.

We're not going to make it, are we? Humans, I mean....

M.

[Phables.dev]

Mortarboard said:

We're not going to make it, are we? Humans, I mean....

It's in our nature to destroy ourselves

[Flooble]

shed driver said:

Also, if there are any delays it can easily be diverted via a different route (subject to route knowledge) without impacting a train full of passengers.

SD.

Serious question - how much of a diversion would it be likely the train could have? As in, how many routes (or parts thereof) does the average mainline driver have signed off?

[ChocolateFrog]

Flooble said:

shed driver said:

Also, if there are any delays it can easily be diverted via a different route (subject to route knowledge) without impacting a train full of passengers.

SD.

Serious question - how much of a diversion would it be likely the train could have? As in, how many routes (or parts thereof) does the average mainline driver have signed off?

It varies a lot. There's a difference between diversions that you sign but don't run over under normal circumstances and purely different routes that get you to the same place that you do use on a regular basis.

Some drivers might sign 15 routes and a dozen diversions others might sign 1 or 2 routes and no diversions.

[SmoothCriminal]

BikeBikeBIke said:

It's in the article:

"the running of this 7am service could have a negative impact on reliability and punctuality of services on the west coast mainline"

Exactly this.

Apparently this train was allowed to run since May because another operator didn't run a service but now that service will run from December

An empty train is completely different to a passenger service.

If something goes tits up that train can be put in a siding or loop and/or fully cancelled with no impact to a train load of punters.

[FredericRobinson]

SmoothCriminal said:

Exactly this.

Apparently this train was allowed to run since May because another operator didn't run a service but now that service will run from December

An empty train is completely different to a passenger service.

If something goes tits up that train can be put in a siding or loop and/or fully cancelled with no impact to a train load of punters.

If this service didn't get the crew to where they need to be on time presumably there will be an impact to punters though? If they just need to shuffle staff around why not put them on the previous departure?

Edited by FredericRobinson on Monday 1st December 20:04

[Lincsls1]

Phables.dev said:

Mortarboard said:

We're not going to make it, are we? Humans, I mean....

It's in our nature to destroy ourselves

Yeah. Major drag huh.

[alangla]

FredericRobinson said:

If this service didn't get the crew to where they need to be on time presumably there will be an impact to punters though? If they just need to shuffle staff around why not put them on the previous departure?

Edited by FredericRobinson on Monday 1st December 20:04

If the WCML is having one of its daily meltdowns then I guess it can be put on the slow line to allow faster trains to overtake, but you’re right, if it’s fully crewed then that crew need to be at Euston to work a service back north by a certain time, especially the driver who will probably have a compulsory break planned.
Apparently this is the worst example of this sort of brainlessness, but supposedly there are other useful trains either terminating short or running empty in the new timetable, especially from the Chester/North Wales direction

[alangla]

shed driver said:

Also, if there are any delays it can easily be diverted via a different route (subject to route knowledge) without impacting a train full of passengers.

SD.

Given it’s non-stop from Stockport the option already exists to send it via Wilmslow, Northampton or, in extremis, Alsager, or the West Midlands, though all of them would result in some sort of delay. Realistically, the most that would happen typically would surely be having to queue behind LNWR trains on the up slow?

I wonder if removing this/running it as ECS will have much of an effect on overall reliability. Looking at the last week, it’s been on time or within a couple of minutes 3 days last week, with more significant delays last Monday, Friday and today. Here’s today’s performance https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P00...

Edited by alangla on Monday 1st December 22:40

[Countdown]

I have to travel from Manchester to London once every couple of weeks. The journey down isn’t usually too bad but on the way back there’s almost always one cancellation which means the ones immediately before or after are jam packed.

[hidetheelephants]

Good job this government are expediting construction of HS2 to relieve WCML congestion. Except they aren't; they're kicking it into the long grass just like the fking tories did.

[rodericb]

SmoothCriminal said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

It's in the article:

"the running of this 7am service could have a negative impact on reliability and punctuality of services on the west coast mainline"

Exactly this.

Apparently this train was allowed to run since May because another operator didn't run a service but now that service will run from December

An empty train is completely different to a passenger service.

If something goes tits up that train can be put in a siding or loop and/or fully cancelled with no impact to a train load of punters.

that sounds like efficient government. To prevent impacts to passengers in case something goes tits up, all trains will now run without passengers....

[alangla]

rodericb said:

that sounds like efficient government. To prevent impacts to passengers in case something goes tits up, all trains will now run without passengers....

Timekeeping was fantastic during the pandemic. The railway functions at its best when it’s unencumbered by passengers.

[Countdown]

alangla said:

Timekeeping was fantastic during the pandemic. The railway functions at its best when it s unencumbered by passengers.

Reminds me of an episode of Yes Minister (The Compassionate Society)