Discussion
I know this must have been asked before, but here goes.
What speed is a police car allowed to do "without" its woo woo sirens, and blue flashing lights on?
As i was past in Cornwall by a traffic car, which must have been well over a ton,with none on at all,
and secondly are we allowed to report them for this?
I only want a light hearted answer, so please don't all get heated over this.:hehe::hehe:
Dave:bow:
What speed is a police car allowed to do "without" its woo woo sirens, and blue flashing lights on?
As i was past in Cornwall by a traffic car, which must have been well over a ton,with none on at all,
and secondly are we allowed to report them for this?
I only want a light hearted answer, so please don't all get heated over this.:hehe::hehe:
Dave:bow:
Think they can do any speed they like. The sirens and lights are only required when they FEEL they need to warn others of their presence. If they think that the other drivers are observant enough, then they don't have to use them - which I guess could apply on a quiet motorway.
Quite often see cars with just lights, especially late at night in residential areas.
Quite often see cars with just lights, especially late at night in residential areas.
There are many reasons why they may not be using their visual and audible warning equiptment (as we call it!
) They can also drive at whatever speed they deem necessary, depending on the circumstances...
Unfortunately many people who have no idea about how Police work, see it as 'speeding' with no reason. Complain away if you like, the Officer might get suspended from driving whilst they take months to investigate it. Will that make you feel a bit better about it?
Hope thats a light-hearted enough answer for you...
) They can also drive at whatever speed they deem necessary, depending on the circumstances... Unfortunately many people who have no idea about how Police work, see it as 'speeding' with no reason. Complain away if you like, the Officer might get suspended from driving whilst they take months to investigate it. Will that make you feel a bit better about it?
Hope thats a light-hearted enough answer for you...
I think the cause for the huge increase in number of complaints about speeding police officers is so obvious that it does not need to be explained in detail.
Suffice to say we are being told that we must be able to justify every occasion when we exceed the limit.
Now IMO this is ridiculous, as I'll have to evidence every time I follow someone at their speed, to watch their manner of driving. If I'm happy with their driving they may not be stopped, but I will have to record that in my pocket book, incase an aggrieved member of the public takes exception to my excess speed.
This is changing attitudes and behaviour of trafpol, and will not in any way benefit road safety.
But it's what the good MOP want, so why should I bother!
I'd like to gauge opinion on whether the forum contributors think it is appropriate for me to travel at 90mph on the motorway to allow my passenger to evidence offences such as mobile phone use and texting , map reading, lane indiscipline, driver tiredness etc.
Would this be seen as committing a more serious offence to detect a lesser one?
Suffice to say we are being told that we must be able to justify every occasion when we exceed the limit.
Now IMO this is ridiculous, as I'll have to evidence every time I follow someone at their speed, to watch their manner of driving. If I'm happy with their driving they may not be stopped, but I will have to record that in my pocket book, incase an aggrieved member of the public takes exception to my excess speed.
This is changing attitudes and behaviour of trafpol, and will not in any way benefit road safety.
But it's what the good MOP want, so why should I bother!
I'd like to gauge opinion on whether the forum contributors think it is appropriate for me to travel at 90mph on the motorway to allow my passenger to evidence offences such as mobile phone use and texting , map reading, lane indiscipline, driver tiredness etc.
Would this be seen as committing a more serious offence to detect a lesser one?
I don't believe that MOP do want to report every policeman who is exceeding the speed limit. They would hope that the same would apply to the police reporting them. It would appear to me that the police by being members of camera partnerships, have brought the problem on themselves.
They set their traps on roads where the speed limit has been invariably reduced for no apparent (or political) reason. The traps are set to catch the maximum number of drivers going slightly over the limit.
You cannot preach speed kills and carry out draconian enforcement, and then expect the public not to notice when police cars hurtle past them.You reap what you sow.
They set their traps on roads where the speed limit has been invariably reduced for no apparent (or political) reason. The traps are set to catch the maximum number of drivers going slightly over the limit.
You cannot preach speed kills and carry out draconian enforcement, and then expect the public not to notice when police cars hurtle past them.You reap what you sow.
Hollywood Wheels said:
There are many reasons why they may not be using their visual and audible warning equiptment (as we call it!
The lights / siren are a safety system to warn the public of the presence and or high speed of the vehicle. I can only think of one reason why it would be valid not to have them on. This would be when using them would alert the suspect to your presence and thereby prevent the collection of evidence againist a crime currently being committed.
Can you shed some light on other reasons?
Over use of the lights and siren when not 'necessary' and safe to make some progress results in less of a response from the public when they are used ......
When we don't use lights and siren - we are obviously speeding without reason ...... if we use them more and we are just flying about with them on all the time for no reason ! We can't win.
The idea where I work is to use them as 'little' as possible where/when safe even when responding to calls. It all depends on the road, time, conditions..... and what you are going to.
I do think it is sad and indicative of society today that the assumption is that we are always abusing our position and taking the ****. Having said that it only takes one man 'familiarising' himself with a Vectra and we are all perceived as the same!
Everyone wants to 'question' everything and will never trust or believe anyone - this constant 'questioning' type of society is what has ultimately led to performance indicators and the reams of statistics that the police and many other organisations now spend a huge amount of time completing! Some figures and targets are good but it is now an industry on its own.....
I personally find it relaxing to travel at the speed limit (except on the M25 with a 32 tonner up my backside!) - it is better than the extreme concentration required when travelling to calls which are sometimes a long distance away. 3/4 hour on the blues and twos through rush hour London traffic is no fun at all. Why would I want to speed in a police car after that ...... unless I was actually going to something else maybe ???
When we don't use lights and siren - we are obviously speeding without reason ...... if we use them more and we are just flying about with them on all the time for no reason ! We can't win.
The idea where I work is to use them as 'little' as possible where/when safe even when responding to calls. It all depends on the road, time, conditions..... and what you are going to.
I do think it is sad and indicative of society today that the assumption is that we are always abusing our position and taking the ****. Having said that it only takes one man 'familiarising' himself with a Vectra and we are all perceived as the same!
Everyone wants to 'question' everything and will never trust or believe anyone - this constant 'questioning' type of society is what has ultimately led to performance indicators and the reams of statistics that the police and many other organisations now spend a huge amount of time completing! Some figures and targets are good but it is now an industry on its own.....
I personally find it relaxing to travel at the speed limit (except on the M25 with a 32 tonner up my backside!) - it is better than the extreme concentration required when travelling to calls which are sometimes a long distance away. 3/4 hour on the blues and twos through rush hour London traffic is no fun at all. Why would I want to speed in a police car after that ...... unless I was actually going to something else maybe ???
A friend of mine works for Cheshire Police. He is a DS and spends most of his time driving in unmarked cars following scrotes that are under surveillance.
One day he was driving along a north Wales dual carriageway (the A55) at approx 100mph whilst following a suspect, who obviously was also travelling at this speed. He spots a marked trafpol car in his mirror.
The north Wales trafpol pulls my mate over. My mate shows his warrant card and explains that he is on a shout. This cuts no ice with trafpol, who insists that everybody should obey the same rules, and that speeding is speeding.
My mate is getting a little exasperated by this time, as his target is getting further and further away, so he asks the trafpol to book him if he is going to, but get on with it! Trafpol says that he will decide what action to take in his own good time!
Eventually, my mate explains to trafpol that if he continues he will arrest him for obstructing a police officer in the execution of his duty. Trafpol backs down and my mate carries on his way.
When he gets back to the station, he finds that north Wales trafpol has lodged a complaint against him! Apparently, the matter was eventually smoothed out at ACC level.
There has always been a degree of animosity between Cheshire and north Wales police forces, but surely this is beyond a joke?
One day he was driving along a north Wales dual carriageway (the A55) at approx 100mph whilst following a suspect, who obviously was also travelling at this speed. He spots a marked trafpol car in his mirror.
The north Wales trafpol pulls my mate over. My mate shows his warrant card and explains that he is on a shout. This cuts no ice with trafpol, who insists that everybody should obey the same rules, and that speeding is speeding.
My mate is getting a little exasperated by this time, as his target is getting further and further away, so he asks the trafpol to book him if he is going to, but get on with it! Trafpol says that he will decide what action to take in his own good time!
Eventually, my mate explains to trafpol that if he continues he will arrest him for obstructing a police officer in the execution of his duty. Trafpol backs down and my mate carries on his way.
When he gets back to the station, he finds that north Wales trafpol has lodged a complaint against him! Apparently, the matter was eventually smoothed out at ACC level.
There has always been a degree of animosity between Cheshire and north Wales police forces, but surely this is beyond a joke?
It is difficult to justify the speed of emergency vehicles at times but if we are to avoid losing all belief in the force we ask to protect us we must to some extent allow them the latitude they need to operate. As a Fire Officer I was required to drive my own car to incidents 
but unless I was using my blue lights I was restricted to the speed limit. With blues and siren if necessary to ease my movement through traffic I was permitted, where safe to do so, to exceed the speed limit. There are occasions such as attending incidents at prisons, hospitals etc where blue lights/sirens are not used when in the location of the incident but an empty motorway late at night is perhaps more questionable. The lights can be easily turned off. We ask the police to do a dangerous and difficult job which they do generally well, it is a shame that these incidents happen where without knowing any detail we judge actions harshly. Human nature I believe!!
but unless I was using my blue lights I was restricted to the speed limit. With blues and siren if necessary to ease my movement through traffic I was permitted, where safe to do so, to exceed the speed limit. There are occasions such as attending incidents at prisons, hospitals etc where blue lights/sirens are not used when in the location of the incident but an empty motorway late at night is perhaps more questionable. The lights can be easily turned off. We ask the police to do a dangerous and difficult job which they do generally well, it is a shame that these incidents happen where without knowing any detail we judge actions harshly. Human nature I believe!!My dad was in the same situation as pbsaxman for a long time as a Fire Officer and he used the blues and twos whenever driving to an incident. He had to drive at well over the speed limit on a number of occassions (especially on the motorway) to get to incidents, so used the blues and twos in this situation.
I also agree with someone above who said that by not using the blues and twos unless it is absolutely necessary will reduce public perception of the emergency service vehicle following them. I regulary see people on motorways who are followed in the outside lane by a police car and fail to see it and pull out of the way. That is surely a problem which needs solving?
I also agree with someone above who said that by not using the blues and twos unless it is absolutely necessary will reduce public perception of the emergency service vehicle following them. I regulary see people on motorways who are followed in the outside lane by a police car and fail to see it and pull out of the way. That is surely a problem which needs solving?
Blues and twos are there to aid progress through traffic, not grant exemptions.
Not every vehicle that is being used for Police purposes, and whose driver is exempt from the speed limits is fitted with them -- they are no more than an a recognised way to ask MOP to be aware and let pass.
Not every vehicle that is being used for Police purposes, and whose driver is exempt from the speed limits is fitted with them -- they are no more than an a recognised way to ask MOP to be aware and let pass.
rewc said:
I don't believe that MOP do want to report every policeman who is exceeding the speed limit. They would hope that the same would apply to the police reporting them. It would appear to me that the police by being members of camera partnerships, have brought the problem on themselves.
They set their traps on roads where the speed limit has been invariably reduced for no apparent (or political) reason. The traps are set to catch the maximum number of drivers going slightly over the limit.
You cannot preach speed kills and carry out draconian enforcement, and then expect the public not to notice when police cars hurtle past them.You reap what you sow.
Very true, you have to be seen to "practise what you preach".
Now, I'm sure that many sensible Trafpol despise the Scamera Pratnerships as much as most PHers, but the motoring public are feeling victimised.
Relations between public & Police must be at the worst ever. This can be seen by the amount of vehicles I have noticed seemingly on purpose delaying Trafpol on call on the motorways.
IaHa said:No, a BiB in your position using your training and judgement over an appropriate speed is a nowhere issue compared to a MoP reading Page 3 from the passenger seat while driving one-handed in lane 2.
I'd like to gauge opinion on whether the forum contributors think it is appropriate for me to travel at 90mph on the motorway to allow my passenger to evidence offences such as mobile phone use and texting , map reading, lane indiscipline, driver tiredness etc. Would this be seen as committing a more serious offence to detect a lesser one?
OK - but you know what I mean
turbobloke said:
I'd like to gauge opinion on whether the forum contributors think it is appropriate for me to travel at 90mph on the motorway to allow my passenger to evidence offences such as mobile phone use and texting , map reading, lane indiscipline, driver tiredness etc. Would this be seen as committing a more serious offence to detect a lesser one?
No, a BiB in your position using your training and judgement over an appropriate speed is a nowhere issue compared to a MoP reading Page 3 from the passenger seat while driving one-handed in lane 2.
OK - but you know what I mean
He was changing gear as well???
valhalla said:
I know this must have been asked before, but here goes.
What speed is a police car allowed to do "without" its woo woo sirens, and blue flashing lights on?
As i was past in Cornwall by a traffic car, which must have been well over a ton,with none on at all,
and secondly are we allowed to report them for this?
I only want a light hearted answer, so please don't all get heated over this.
Dave
i've actually seen this from the other side, from when i was playing at being a fire man in 2002/3. we were called out because a disturbed chap had trashed his house, broke a hole in the roof, and climbed out threatening to jump. we were told to extinguish the blues and twos as the sight of 2 trafpol pilot wagons and a green goddess might drive him 'over the edge' as it were.
IaHa said:
This is changing attitudes and behaviour of trafpol, and will not in any way benefit road safety.
But it's what the good MOP want, so why should I bother!
Todays road Policing policy appears to be having a negative effect on Road Safety, there is much blood on the policy makers hands.
Unfortunately the dumbing-down and persecution of the motorist has had a knock-on effect , I doubt people would have complained about how fast the Police drove at 20 years ago.
People are resenting being 'done' for a safe speed - in most cases it's the Police that are seen to be 'doing' them, people do not like Hypocrisy and we are constantly told that 'Speed Kills' speed is bad so therefore all speed kills, including Police Speed.....
and another wedge goes between the Public and Police
We had sensible approaches to Policing the Roads but all seems to have been lost in the Dash-for-cash that is 'Speed Kills'
IaHa said:
This is changing attitudes and behaviour of trafpol, and will not in any way benefit road safety.
If the Police want to use cameras and steal money from perfectly safe and honest motorists, is it any wonder you're not flavour of the month with MOP ?
This was predicted a long time ago, it's not something new that's only just happened, it's been happening for ages.
If the plod go back to proper policing, the days when 3 points meant you'd been behaving like a t
t and deserved them, then the MOP (I hate that acronym !) will respond positively. If the plod get back to proper policing then I'm sure the public will start to respect an support them . . . I certainly will.
(Yes, I know, it's not always the plod on the ground who can change things, heard that before, but where else does it start ??)
IaHa said:
I'd like to gauge opinion on whether the forum contributors think it is appropriate for me to travel at 90mph on the motorway to allow my passenger to evidence offences such as mobile phone use and texting , map reading, lane indiscipline, driver tiredness etc.
I would assume that you would only do this after actually witnessing someone doing the above, or having it reported to you, in which case go for it. It falls well & truly under the category of "Police Business IMHO.
What is not acceptable is cases such as the illustrious PC Milton, doing 159mph just to test the limits of the car.
I regularly see Police cars travelling at warp speed sans Blooz n Tooz, and have questioned why...but can i be bothereed to pick up a phone & report it? Nope. I can do without the possibility of a stop check every other day thankyou very much
Now, to turn this on it's head..
If you witnessed me doing 90mph, in a capable car, on a quiet Motorway, indicating correctly, leaving plenty of room and using correct lane discipline etc, would you consider that to be acceptable ?
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