Learning mechanics on a banger
Discussion
I have this urge to buy a cheap car under £1000 and practice doing various mechanical jobs. Goal is to just know my way around a car and become somewhat mechanically inclined. Previous experience working on cars is limited to changing pads on my old FN2 and changing oil.
These are kind of jobs I'm keen on attempting:
clutch replacement
timing belt change (if the car has one)
change brakes and other brake parts
suspension change
renewing fluids like coolant and brake/clutch fluid
diagnose any issues pertaining to the engine (but probably never an engine rebuild or swap)
I have a Halfords 200pc set, 2 tonne low profile aluminium jack, 2x 3 tonne jack stands and other garage tools. Just missing on torque wrenches, suggestions would be appreciated other than the Halford ones. Grabbed an impact wrench from LIDL of all places. OBD2 reader is on the way (it is one of those £5 ones). Any other tools I should scour marketplace for that may prove useful?
I've been researching cars for my use case and the 2nd gen 1L Yaris seems perfect. Cheap insurance, £35 road tax and cheap parts. I'd be doing everything on the driveway on stands so not looking for something complex to work on.
What do you folks think of my plan? I've calculated the price of parts like clutches, pads. All in all I'll probably be spending £300-400 and maybe another £100 on tools. Unless I break something along the way. I'd much prefer to spend around £2000 on a car from which I'll learn valuable skills than to spend more on a car I'd be scared to work on.
These are kind of jobs I'm keen on attempting:
clutch replacement
timing belt change (if the car has one)
change brakes and other brake parts
suspension change
renewing fluids like coolant and brake/clutch fluid
diagnose any issues pertaining to the engine (but probably never an engine rebuild or swap)
I have a Halfords 200pc set, 2 tonne low profile aluminium jack, 2x 3 tonne jack stands and other garage tools. Just missing on torque wrenches, suggestions would be appreciated other than the Halford ones. Grabbed an impact wrench from LIDL of all places. OBD2 reader is on the way (it is one of those £5 ones). Any other tools I should scour marketplace for that may prove useful?
I've been researching cars for my use case and the 2nd gen 1L Yaris seems perfect. Cheap insurance, £35 road tax and cheap parts. I'd be doing everything on the driveway on stands so not looking for something complex to work on.
What do you folks think of my plan? I've calculated the price of parts like clutches, pads. All in all I'll probably be spending £300-400 and maybe another £100 on tools. Unless I break something along the way. I'd much prefer to spend around £2000 on a car from which I'll learn valuable skills than to spend more on a car I'd be scared to work on.
You'll probably end up with a bunch of quite specific specialist tools, which will get little/no use except for the specific job they do. For example, cam/crank locking tools for a cambelt change; clutch alignment tool, flywheel locking tool, possibly a transmission jack (depends how heavy the transmissions you are removing are). Also don't underestimate the number of different combinations of length of tool. For example, I have socket sets in 3/8" and 1/2" drive, adapters between both of those, 6 extension bars, and deep sockets and sometimes you end up using them all to just reach a nut the manufacturer has put in a stupid place.
Have you seen this thread?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Any cheap rwd cars?, sometimes the drivetrain layout is easier to work on, although rwd cars are thin on the ground nowadays (damaged 3-series?)
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Any cheap rwd cars?, sometimes the drivetrain layout is easier to work on, although rwd cars are thin on the ground nowadays (damaged 3-series?)
TarquinMX5 said:
Have you seen this thread?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Any cheap rwd cars?, sometimes the drivetrain layout is easier to work on, although rwd cars are thin on the ground nowadays (damaged 3-series?)
Yeah that's my thread...saved me putting it in! It's been genuinely life changing for me, no exaggeration. So I hope the OP of this one finds similar enlightenment.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Any cheap rwd cars?, sometimes the drivetrain layout is easier to work on, although rwd cars are thin on the ground nowadays (damaged 3-series?)
I'll be watching this thread with interest. I'm wanting a "banger" to practice on too, albeit not for clutch changes (at this point). Same principle though.
Scott
I fully applaud this idea. 
I wanted to understand how cars worked so in 1986 I bought a '71 240Z. Well 2 to be honest. Stripped the bodies clean and reassembled one complete car over the next 18 months. I left the painting to others but learned a lot.
Only had a tool roll set of wrenches and a socket set to start with. Granted there were limited electrics to deal with but there are so many online resources to help you out today. I only had a Haynes manual and the blind willingness of youth to get me started.
Arthur
I wanted to understand how cars worked so in 1986 I bought a '71 240Z. Well 2 to be honest. Stripped the bodies clean and reassembled one complete car over the next 18 months. I left the painting to others but learned a lot.
Only had a tool roll set of wrenches and a socket set to start with. Granted there were limited electrics to deal with but there are so many online resources to help you out today. I only had a Haynes manual and the blind willingness of youth to get me started.
Arthur
I learnt a lot on cheap Westfields (any open 2 seater replica will work). The beauty is easy access to everything, open engine bay, easy to jack, easy to plop on axle stands, cheap parts, usually a carb'd engine, or simple injection, and often very well known standardised parts (like ford axles and diffs, ford brakes etc).
Oh and real pure fun to drive!
Oh and real pure fun to drive!
Griffith4ever said:
I learnt a lot on cheap Westfields (any open 2 seater replica will work). The beauty is easy access to everything, open engine bay, easy to jack, easy to plop on axle stands, cheap parts, usually a carb'd engine, or simple injection, and often very well known standardised parts (like ford axles and diffs, ford brakes etc).
Yes, I'm probably at a similar stage to the OP and when I look at the engine bay of my Merc, everything seems to require to you to remove something else before you can do the thing you wanted to do.So I'd be inclined to get a car without air conditioning (not sure how many 1L mk2 Yaris had it). Probably seeking out a supermini without ABS and PAS would probably be too much work and would mean an older car with more rust etc and my impression is that they don't make the car much more complicated.
paul_c123 said:
You'll probably end up with a bunch of quite specific specialist tools, which will get little/no use except for the specific job they do. For example, cam/crank locking tools for a cambelt change; clutch alignment tool, flywheel locking tool, possibly a transmission jack (depends how heavy the transmissions you are removing are). Also don't underestimate the number of different combinations of length of tool. For example, I have socket sets in 3/8" and 1/2" drive, adapters between both of those, 6 extension bars, and deep sockets and sometimes you end up using them all to just reach a nut the manufacturer has put in a stupid place.
yeah I've been looking at the sort of jobs I'm interested in and it does seem i need one time use tools. Hence why i'll just get used stuff from facebook marketplace. I need the clutch alignment tool, spring compressors (probably 4 so I don't take my head off), brake rewind tools, prybar for taking out drive shafts, ball joint removal tool. Probably a few others I need to think about. As for the transmission jack.. could I not just get another 2 tonne trolley jack?Definitely going to hold out for a £500er or lower as I'm not in any particular rush. Have been reading the theory in the meantime. Hillier's Fundamentals of Motor Vehicle Technology, can highly recommend this for anyone else looking to learn and watching repairs on youtube to get familiar with everything.
I think the biggest thing (for me at least) was appropriate space, especially covered. Makes a huge difference in how much time you can spend and what concentration and resources you can bring to bear.Like lighting, a work bench, a vice. You can leave a car l8fted and tools around. Windows open.
A decent spaces alllows power choices, storage for parts removed and stored and noise late into a winter's night...
A decent spaces alllows power choices, storage for parts removed and stored and noise late into a winter's night...
Get a car you'll actually want to use and has some desirability or sentimental value, otherwise the motivation may wither and it'll be a project car sat deteriorating like so many others where the owner just loses enthusiasm.
I saved a Peugeot 306 XS from being scrapped when the one lady owner either passed away, gave up driving (figure someone that had the car for best part of 30 years wasn't going to be all that young and wouldn't part with it easily) or didn't want to spend the money required to fix the issues it had, including an engine burning and leaking oil. I had the exact same model apart from the body colour back in the day and it was one of the better 'driver's cars' I've owned so took the opportunity to save it and try to fix it myself as a cheap and easy 'banger' to work on. I got a Haynes manual and watched all the YouTube content and forum 'how to' info I could find before tackling each job, then bought the tools I needed as I progressed. With it being a spare project car there was no rush but I also enjoy tinkering on it and driving it to make me want to keep it and do the work required. The only issues that remain are cosmetic ('one careful lady owner' had scratched every corner and dented it in a few places) and it recently passed the MOT with only some minor advisories on wear and tear items that'll need replacing at some point. Just done a 300 mile round trip in it without issue, first time it's gone over 20 odd miles in the ~two years since I've owned it, so was a bit nervous in case a new issue cropped up as with 30 year old cars so many things are starting to perish if not already been replaced at least once.
So far I've fixed the oil burning and leaking by removing the cylinder head to replace the valve stem seals and head gasket, replaced the alternator when the light came on the dash, replaced the radiator and associated pipework due to leaks, and pulled out the dash to replace the heater matrix that also started leaking (perhaps the most notorious of jobs on the 306 given its location and faff factor). All with the car still on its wheels as my drive isn't level and don't trust jacks/stands enough to get under it, so I just put the wheels on some shallow ramps used to level motorhomes so I had enough space to crawl underneath.
Nothing's been that difficult, as the guys on Salvage Rebuilds UK say it's all bolt off and back on, though wouldn't fancy working on a modern car with a packed engine bay and sensors up the wazoo and so much to go wrong with them these days. Mine doesn't even have aircon or airbags, leccy windows are perhaps the most sophisticated thing about it.
Before I did any of this I'd only changed bulbs and wiper blades, not even attempted an oil change as I used to just pay the local garage to do any work, but given the car was worth essentially scrap value at the time I figured worse case if I mess it up I have to scrap it again.
It's a very rewarding hobby and has saved me a lot of money being confident enough to DIY most jobs as they arise.
I saved a Peugeot 306 XS from being scrapped when the one lady owner either passed away, gave up driving (figure someone that had the car for best part of 30 years wasn't going to be all that young and wouldn't part with it easily) or didn't want to spend the money required to fix the issues it had, including an engine burning and leaking oil. I had the exact same model apart from the body colour back in the day and it was one of the better 'driver's cars' I've owned so took the opportunity to save it and try to fix it myself as a cheap and easy 'banger' to work on. I got a Haynes manual and watched all the YouTube content and forum 'how to' info I could find before tackling each job, then bought the tools I needed as I progressed. With it being a spare project car there was no rush but I also enjoy tinkering on it and driving it to make me want to keep it and do the work required. The only issues that remain are cosmetic ('one careful lady owner' had scratched every corner and dented it in a few places) and it recently passed the MOT with only some minor advisories on wear and tear items that'll need replacing at some point. Just done a 300 mile round trip in it without issue, first time it's gone over 20 odd miles in the ~two years since I've owned it, so was a bit nervous in case a new issue cropped up as with 30 year old cars so many things are starting to perish if not already been replaced at least once.
So far I've fixed the oil burning and leaking by removing the cylinder head to replace the valve stem seals and head gasket, replaced the alternator when the light came on the dash, replaced the radiator and associated pipework due to leaks, and pulled out the dash to replace the heater matrix that also started leaking (perhaps the most notorious of jobs on the 306 given its location and faff factor). All with the car still on its wheels as my drive isn't level and don't trust jacks/stands enough to get under it, so I just put the wheels on some shallow ramps used to level motorhomes so I had enough space to crawl underneath.
Nothing's been that difficult, as the guys on Salvage Rebuilds UK say it's all bolt off and back on, though wouldn't fancy working on a modern car with a packed engine bay and sensors up the wazoo and so much to go wrong with them these days. Mine doesn't even have aircon or airbags, leccy windows are perhaps the most sophisticated thing about it.
Before I did any of this I'd only changed bulbs and wiper blades, not even attempted an oil change as I used to just pay the local garage to do any work, but given the car was worth essentially scrap value at the time I figured worse case if I mess it up I have to scrap it again.
It's a very rewarding hobby and has saved me a lot of money being confident enough to DIY most jobs as they arise.
Virtual PAH said:
Get a car you'll actually want to use and has some desirability or sentimental value, otherwise the motivation may wither and it'll be a project car sat deteriorating like so many others where the owner just loses enthusiasm.
I saved a Peugeot 306 XS from being scrapped when the one lady owner either passed away, gave up driving (figure someone that had the car for best part of 30 years wasn't going to be all that young and wouldn't part with it easily) or didn't want to spend the money required to fix the issues it had, including an engine burning and leaking oil. I had the exact same model apart from the body colour back in the day and it was one of the better 'driver's cars' I've owned so took the opportunity to save it and try to fix it myself as a cheap and easy 'banger' to work on. I got a Haynes manual and watched all the YouTube content and forum 'how to' info I could find before tackling each job, then bought the tools I needed as I progressed. With it being a spare project car there was no rush but I also enjoy tinkering on it and driving it to make me want to keep it and do the work required. The only issues that remain are cosmetic ('one careful lady owner' had scratched every corner and dented it in a few places) and it recently passed the MOT with only some minor advisories on wear and tear items that'll need replacing at some point. Just done a 300 mile round trip in it without issue, first time it's gone over 20 odd miles in the ~two years since I've owned it, so was a bit nervous in case a new issue cropped up as with 30 year old cars so many things are starting to perish if not already been replaced at least once.
So far I've fixed the oil burning and leaking by removing the cylinder head to replace the valve stem seals and head gasket, replaced the alternator when the light came on the dash, replaced the radiator and associated pipework due to leaks, and pulled out the dash to replace the heater matrix that also started leaking (perhaps the most notorious of jobs on the 306 given its location and faff factor). All with the car still on its wheels as my drive isn't level and don't trust jacks/stands enough to get under it, so I just put the wheels on some shallow ramps used to level motorhomes so I had enough space to crawl underneath.
Nothing's been that difficult, as the guys on Salvage Rebuilds UK say it's all bolt off and back on, though wouldn't fancy working on a modern car with a packed engine bay and sensors up the wazoo and so much to go wrong with them these days. Mine doesn't even have aircon or airbags, leccy windows are perhaps the most sophisticated thing about it.
Before I did any of this I'd only changed bulbs and wiper blades, not even attempted an oil change as I used to just pay the local garage to do any work, but given the car was worth essentially scrap value at the time I figured worse case if I mess it up I have to scrap it again.
It's a very rewarding hobby and has saved me a lot of money being confident enough to DIY most jobs as they arise.
That is brilliant and thanks for posting such an insight.I saved a Peugeot 306 XS from being scrapped when the one lady owner either passed away, gave up driving (figure someone that had the car for best part of 30 years wasn't going to be all that young and wouldn't part with it easily) or didn't want to spend the money required to fix the issues it had, including an engine burning and leaking oil. I had the exact same model apart from the body colour back in the day and it was one of the better 'driver's cars' I've owned so took the opportunity to save it and try to fix it myself as a cheap and easy 'banger' to work on. I got a Haynes manual and watched all the YouTube content and forum 'how to' info I could find before tackling each job, then bought the tools I needed as I progressed. With it being a spare project car there was no rush but I also enjoy tinkering on it and driving it to make me want to keep it and do the work required. The only issues that remain are cosmetic ('one careful lady owner' had scratched every corner and dented it in a few places) and it recently passed the MOT with only some minor advisories on wear and tear items that'll need replacing at some point. Just done a 300 mile round trip in it without issue, first time it's gone over 20 odd miles in the ~two years since I've owned it, so was a bit nervous in case a new issue cropped up as with 30 year old cars so many things are starting to perish if not already been replaced at least once.
So far I've fixed the oil burning and leaking by removing the cylinder head to replace the valve stem seals and head gasket, replaced the alternator when the light came on the dash, replaced the radiator and associated pipework due to leaks, and pulled out the dash to replace the heater matrix that also started leaking (perhaps the most notorious of jobs on the 306 given its location and faff factor). All with the car still on its wheels as my drive isn't level and don't trust jacks/stands enough to get under it, so I just put the wheels on some shallow ramps used to level motorhomes so I had enough space to crawl underneath.
Nothing's been that difficult, as the guys on Salvage Rebuilds UK say it's all bolt off and back on, though wouldn't fancy working on a modern car with a packed engine bay and sensors up the wazoo and so much to go wrong with them these days. Mine doesn't even have aircon or airbags, leccy windows are perhaps the most sophisticated thing about it.
Before I did any of this I'd only changed bulbs and wiper blades, not even attempted an oil change as I used to just pay the local garage to do any work, but given the car was worth essentially scrap value at the time I figured worse case if I mess it up I have to scrap it again.
It's a very rewarding hobby and has saved me a lot of money being confident enough to DIY most jobs as they arise.
That is where I want to get to, one day. No reason I can't.
Virtual PAH said:
Get a car you'll actually want to use and has some desirability or sentimental value, otherwise the motivation may wither and it'll be a project car sat deteriorating like so many others where the owner just loses enthusiasm.
I saved a Peugeot 306 XS from being scrapped when the one lady owner either passed away, gave up driving (figure someone that had the car for best part of 30 years wasn't going to be all that young and wouldn't part with it easily) or didn't want to spend the money required to fix the issues it had, including an engine burning and leaking oil. I had the exact same model apart from the body colour back in the day and it was one of the better 'driver's cars' I've owned so took the opportunity to save it and try to fix it myself as a cheap and easy 'banger' to work on. I got a Haynes manual and watched all the YouTube content and forum 'how to' info I could find before tackling each job, then bought the tools I needed as I progressed. With it being a spare project car there was no rush but I also enjoy tinkering on it and driving it to make me want to keep it and do the work required. The only issues that remain are cosmetic ('one careful lady owner' had scratched every corner and dented it in a few places) and it recently passed the MOT with only some minor advisories on wear and tear items that'll need replacing at some point. Just done a 300 mile round trip in it without issue, first time it's gone over 20 odd miles in the ~two years since I've owned it, so was a bit nervous in case a new issue cropped up as with 30 year old cars so many things are starting to perish if not already been replaced at least once.
So far I've fixed the oil burning and leaking by removing the cylinder head to replace the valve stem seals and head gasket, replaced the alternator when the light came on the dash, replaced the radiator and associated pipework due to leaks, and pulled out the dash to replace the heater matrix that also started leaking (perhaps the most notorious of jobs on the 306 given its location and faff factor). All with the car still on its wheels as my drive isn't level and don't trust jacks/stands enough to get under it, so I just put the wheels on some shallow ramps used to level motorhomes so I had enough space to crawl underneath.
Nothing's been that difficult, as the guys on Salvage Rebuilds UK say it's all bolt off and back on, though wouldn't fancy working on a modern car with a packed engine bay and sensors up the wazoo and so much to go wrong with them these days. Mine doesn't even have aircon or airbags, leccy windows are perhaps the most sophisticated thing about it.
Before I did any of this I'd only changed bulbs and wiper blades, not even attempted an oil change as I used to just pay the local garage to do any work, but given the car was worth essentially scrap value at the time I figured worse case if I mess it up I have to scrap it again.
It's a very rewarding hobby and has saved me a lot of money being confident enough to DIY most jobs as they arise.
I like my 90s-00s Hondas and originally wanted either an S2000, Prelude or EP3. The problem is with how infrequently I drive, I'd be wasting money on insurance and tax. The other issue is when I went to see a bunch they were all rotten and too much work to bring to standard. I'd be happy with any cheap motor that will drive around town, cost <£165 in road tax and not a lot on insurance as I have 0 NCB and live in a not so great area. I saved a Peugeot 306 XS from being scrapped when the one lady owner either passed away, gave up driving (figure someone that had the car for best part of 30 years wasn't going to be all that young and wouldn't part with it easily) or didn't want to spend the money required to fix the issues it had, including an engine burning and leaking oil. I had the exact same model apart from the body colour back in the day and it was one of the better 'driver's cars' I've owned so took the opportunity to save it and try to fix it myself as a cheap and easy 'banger' to work on. I got a Haynes manual and watched all the YouTube content and forum 'how to' info I could find before tackling each job, then bought the tools I needed as I progressed. With it being a spare project car there was no rush but I also enjoy tinkering on it and driving it to make me want to keep it and do the work required. The only issues that remain are cosmetic ('one careful lady owner' had scratched every corner and dented it in a few places) and it recently passed the MOT with only some minor advisories on wear and tear items that'll need replacing at some point. Just done a 300 mile round trip in it without issue, first time it's gone over 20 odd miles in the ~two years since I've owned it, so was a bit nervous in case a new issue cropped up as with 30 year old cars so many things are starting to perish if not already been replaced at least once.
So far I've fixed the oil burning and leaking by removing the cylinder head to replace the valve stem seals and head gasket, replaced the alternator when the light came on the dash, replaced the radiator and associated pipework due to leaks, and pulled out the dash to replace the heater matrix that also started leaking (perhaps the most notorious of jobs on the 306 given its location and faff factor). All with the car still on its wheels as my drive isn't level and don't trust jacks/stands enough to get under it, so I just put the wheels on some shallow ramps used to level motorhomes so I had enough space to crawl underneath.
Nothing's been that difficult, as the guys on Salvage Rebuilds UK say it's all bolt off and back on, though wouldn't fancy working on a modern car with a packed engine bay and sensors up the wazoo and so much to go wrong with them these days. Mine doesn't even have aircon or airbags, leccy windows are perhaps the most sophisticated thing about it.
Before I did any of this I'd only changed bulbs and wiper blades, not even attempted an oil change as I used to just pay the local garage to do any work, but given the car was worth essentially scrap value at the time I figured worse case if I mess it up I have to scrap it again.
It's a very rewarding hobby and has saved me a lot of money being confident enough to DIY most jobs as they arise.
The MK2 Yaris is a perfect fit as I can hopefully get one for below £1000, £35 road tax and insurance will be peanuts. 1L or 1.33L engine will mean very cheap running costs. I think it's quite well documented too for the jobs I want to practice and parts are plentiful. I don't think it's a particularly bad looking car and wouldn't mind running it for a year before I upgrade to something else. Probably a Scirocco next.
delegate1234 said:
I like my 90s-00s Hondas and originally wanted either an S2000, Prelude or EP3. The problem is with how infrequently I drive, I'd be wasting money on insurance and tax. The other issue is when I went to see a bunch they were all rotten and too much work to bring to standard. I'd be happy with any cheap motor that will drive around town, cost <£165 in road tax and not a lot on insurance as I have 0 NCB and live in a not so great area.
The MK2 Yaris is a perfect fit as I can hopefully get one for below £1000, £35 road tax and insurance will be peanuts. 1L or 1.33L engine will mean very cheap running costs. I think it's quite well documented too for the jobs I want to practice and parts are plentiful. I don't think it's a particularly bad looking car and wouldn't mind running it for a year before I upgrade to something else. Probably a Scirocco next.
There's several ways to approach it, either go for a modern classic that only needs mechanical work rather than a rot box unless fancy learning to weld, or something newer that you can maintain as part of normal servicing. Problem with the Yaris and the like is they may be too reliable, so you'll be sat twiddling your thumbs bored of just the annual routine servicing stuff and wanting something interesting to break. Though if looking at the cheaper end of what's for sale there's bound to be some neglected ones that may need bringing back up to scratch. I always start by checking the MOT history to get a feel for what work has been done or may need doing and avoid anything with significant corrosion entries as chances are all the nuts and bolts are rusty too.The MK2 Yaris is a perfect fit as I can hopefully get one for below £1000, £35 road tax and insurance will be peanuts. 1L or 1.33L engine will mean very cheap running costs. I think it's quite well documented too for the jobs I want to practice and parts are plentiful. I don't think it's a particularly bad looking car and wouldn't mind running it for a year before I upgrade to something else. Probably a Scirocco next.
If you have enough off road parking you can SORN it while fixing something that may take a few weeks or more so not having to rush a tricky job and the saving on the road tax helps pay for the repair parts/tools. I pay by direct debit so easy to cancel when SORNing mine for a month or more.
Have a look on youtube as there's bound to be some videos covering the types of job you want to tackle on the model of car you're interested in. I think youtube is the modern equivalent of the haynes manual. Do wonder if the professional workshop manuals are worth getting if they offer step by step and hint/tips in more detail than haynes, but the cost and lack of try before you buy means I haven't felt the need to stump up the cash for one yet. Perhaps if I get a more complicated project car next I'll feel the need to invest more in the knowledge available.
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