HMRC and VAT daftness
Discussion
Is it just me being daft, or is HMRC daft at institutional level?
I submitted VAT return for last quarter. Payment was due by 7th December. We have Direct Debit set up so there should be no issue with missing a payment. Just logged in thinking that must be taking the money about now.
I log into portal and see that indeed our VAT payment was due on 7th December, so is now OVERDUE, flagged up in red text, and they add an amount for interest.
There is a messages page, so I look on there. Message from HMRC, sent today (8th December) saying VAT will be taken by DD on 10th December, at the correct amount. So...everything is actually OK then. The payment direct debit is in place, the amount is correct, they say when they will take it. Yet the page before makes a big drama of being late and saying £X payable on top.
This set up does not make sense to me - an ordinary non-accounting, non-powerfully built company director. Talk about making tax easier?
I submitted VAT return for last quarter. Payment was due by 7th December. We have Direct Debit set up so there should be no issue with missing a payment. Just logged in thinking that must be taking the money about now.
I log into portal and see that indeed our VAT payment was due on 7th December, so is now OVERDUE, flagged up in red text, and they add an amount for interest.
There is a messages page, so I look on there. Message from HMRC, sent today (8th December) saying VAT will be taken by DD on 10th December, at the correct amount. So...everything is actually OK then. The payment direct debit is in place, the amount is correct, they say when they will take it. Yet the page before makes a big drama of being late and saying £X payable on top.
This set up does not make sense to me - an ordinary non-accounting, non-powerfully built company director. Talk about making tax easier?
HMRC, DVLA and all the rest exist as much as a job creation scheme for unemployable morons as they do as an attempt at providing a function. So they f
k up basic processes in endless new ways that just shouldn't be possible for anyone with two functional brain cells.
And as I've heard it they're highly resistant to suggestions for simple improvements from any source; 'If you tweak this process slightly to adjust the timings you'll eliminate a lot of fraud' - 'No'. And that's suggestions from the bits of government that are actually meant to be able to tell them what to do.
k up basic processes in endless new ways that just shouldn't be possible for anyone with two functional brain cells. And as I've heard it they're highly resistant to suggestions for simple improvements from any source; 'If you tweak this process slightly to adjust the timings you'll eliminate a lot of fraud' - 'No'. And that's suggestions from the bits of government that are actually meant to be able to tell them what to do.
I phoned HMRC and pointed this out to them, so:
1. HMRC set due date of VAT payment as 7th December
2. HMRC set their date for taking payment as 10th December
3. Our VAT is therefore flagged in red as OVERDUE
4. We do not have control of HMRC taking the payment, so they are late
5. They add interest on
The young lady I spoke to was backed into a corner. She assured me that nothing was wrong and that the payment would be taken and that we would not be charged interest for being late. But their portal says - 'interest payable' and 'overdue'. "It will be fine Sir". I then followed up to point out - that:
if HMRC say we are OVERDUE, then for all I know, they could have our company red flagged for it, and this could happen every quarter. She assured me that is not the case, but as users, we work on the information presented to us on the Government Gateway.
I can quite easily see how stats can be run from their system to say 5,000 companies were overdue with paying their VAT, but do you know what, we managed to get it from 4,500 of those companies in the end!
The system is broken.
1. HMRC set due date of VAT payment as 7th December
2. HMRC set their date for taking payment as 10th December
3. Our VAT is therefore flagged in red as OVERDUE
4. We do not have control of HMRC taking the payment, so they are late
5. They add interest on
The young lady I spoke to was backed into a corner. She assured me that nothing was wrong and that the payment would be taken and that we would not be charged interest for being late. But their portal says - 'interest payable' and 'overdue'. "It will be fine Sir". I then followed up to point out - that:
if HMRC say we are OVERDUE, then for all I know, they could have our company red flagged for it, and this could happen every quarter. She assured me that is not the case, but as users, we work on the information presented to us on the Government Gateway.
I can quite easily see how stats can be run from their system to say 5,000 companies were overdue with paying their VAT, but do you know what, we managed to get it from 4,500 of those companies in the end!
The system is broken.
While VAT is due on the 7th, all DD are taken on or around the 12th. Assuming you have the DD set up correctly then, no need to call HMRC - you’ll only be on hold an hour and eventually get no sense from who you talk to.
Agree entirely on they are inept beyond resolve. I have posted before on this matter. Words cannot describe what they’re like.
It’s a wonder accountants up and down the country are retiring left right and centre.
Agree entirely on they are inept beyond resolve. I have posted before on this matter. Words cannot describe what they’re like.
It’s a wonder accountants up and down the country are retiring left right and centre.
Abc321 said:
While VAT is due on the 7th, all DD are taken on or around the 12th. Assuming you have the DD set up correctly then, no need to call HMRC - you ll only be on hold an hour and eventually get no sense from who you talk to.
Agree entirely on they are inept beyond resolve. I have posted before on this matter. Words cannot describe what they re like.
It s a wonder accountants up and down the country are retiring left right and centre.
Thank you. That indeed makes sense on the dates and I must commit that to memory.Agree entirely on they are inept beyond resolve. I have posted before on this matter. Words cannot describe what they re like.
It s a wonder accountants up and down the country are retiring left right and centre.
I do feel a bit aggrieved though that His Majesty's Revenue and Customs tells ME that I am late, when it is actually THEM. Seems that I am not a lone in this experience. I comply with their systems, do not want to be late or fall foul of them - so the Government Gateway has offended me!
A couple of years ago I switched from sole trader to limited company. Checked the HMRC website and it said I could request to transfer the VAT account and it would take up to 12 weeks.
Downloaded the form, filled it in, sent it back to HMRC.
What I didn't know was that HMRC had got rid of most people in that department and it took ages for them to get around to it and completely messed it up. There was an issue with the transfer which meant I couldn't access or submit returns to the old VAT account.
After loads of complained spanning over a year, we finally agreed to create a completely new VAT account instead, but they even messed that up.
Finally got it sorted but it took well over a year.
Downloaded the form, filled it in, sent it back to HMRC.
What I didn't know was that HMRC had got rid of most people in that department and it took ages for them to get around to it and completely messed it up. There was an issue with the transfer which meant I couldn't access or submit returns to the old VAT account.
After loads of complained spanning over a year, we finally agreed to create a completely new VAT account instead, but they even messed that up.
Finally got it sorted but it took well over a year.
It VAT but having issues with self assessment.
Submitted it, got a number - their system decided to delete pension payments and increase the amount owing materially
I call them, they fix it and the number goes back to where it was.
I then get another automated adjustment back to the wrong figure! I now have 3 HMRC demands, all for different amounts (2 higher ones similar) but dated wrong - correct - wrong and the portal shows the wrong number.
Guess I'll need another hour on the phone!
Submitted it, got a number - their system decided to delete pension payments and increase the amount owing materially
I call them, they fix it and the number goes back to where it was.
I then get another automated adjustment back to the wrong figure! I now have 3 HMRC demands, all for different amounts (2 higher ones similar) but dated wrong - correct - wrong and the portal shows the wrong number.
Guess I'll need another hour on the phone!
Could be worse - my mate is having to pay £30K to HMRC for tax on behalf of the Spanish tax authorities. But he's already paid it, and has proof. HMRC doesn't care, apparently they've paid the Spanish tax authorities and now want the money off him, adding interest if he argues.
It seems at £30K there's nothing he can do about it. There are specialist lawyers who'll take on the Spanish tax authorities but they've told him it'll cost a lot more than £30K and he won't get his costs back.
It seems at £30K there's nothing he can do about it. There are specialist lawyers who'll take on the Spanish tax authorities but they've told him it'll cost a lot more than £30K and he won't get his costs back.
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