not paying for petrol
Discussion
So 2 weeks back I got a letter from solicitors stating I had driven off from a Tesco petrol station without paying which I suppose could happen by mistake but I do have a problem with it for multiple reasons.
the main problem is they allege this happened at the end of September so I genuinely can't recall something that I do twice a week and why has it taken over nearly 2.5 months to contact me over it ?
1) I never pay at kiosk I always pay at pump ,if you pay at pump there is no way you can put the petrol in until your card is cleared.
2) I always collect club card points, the date in question I can find no record of a payment to anyone nor any club card points being collected.
3) I usually only get petrol when I shop in the supermarket.,there is no evidence of any payment or clubcard points from said date at any supermarket.
4) I do not recall the date or the petrol station but I do recall going to a petrol station getting to the pump and realising I did not have my credit cards with me and then driving off without having put petrol in the car.
5) not my usual petrol station ,although one I have used occasionally .
Anyway it is what it is and if I did not pay the I am happy to sort but because of point 4 I have asked for video evidence of the supposed incident ,the solicitors advised they will only provide a photo ,to which I said if it shows me putting petrol in the car then I accept I have done what they say but otherwise a photo of say me in the car is not sufficient ,to which they said they cannot say what type of evidence the photo will show.
So if anyone has been through anything similar any advice would be appreciated.
the main problem is they allege this happened at the end of September so I genuinely can't recall something that I do twice a week and why has it taken over nearly 2.5 months to contact me over it ?
1) I never pay at kiosk I always pay at pump ,if you pay at pump there is no way you can put the petrol in until your card is cleared.
2) I always collect club card points, the date in question I can find no record of a payment to anyone nor any club card points being collected.
3) I usually only get petrol when I shop in the supermarket.,there is no evidence of any payment or clubcard points from said date at any supermarket.
4) I do not recall the date or the petrol station but I do recall going to a petrol station getting to the pump and realising I did not have my credit cards with me and then driving off without having put petrol in the car.
5) not my usual petrol station ,although one I have used occasionally .
Anyway it is what it is and if I did not pay the I am happy to sort but because of point 4 I have asked for video evidence of the supposed incident ,the solicitors advised they will only provide a photo ,to which I said if it shows me putting petrol in the car then I accept I have done what they say but otherwise a photo of say me in the car is not sufficient ,to which they said they cannot say what type of evidence the photo will show.
So if anyone has been through anything similar any advice would be appreciated.
Obviously you have to wait and see what evidence they produce . For them to make any case the photo will either have to show your vehicle complete with index number or a cloned vehicle bearing the same index number . Perhaps it will turn out to be a completely different vehicle with a completely different number , I experienced this scenario myself on Dartford Crossing some time back . I pointed the mistake out and it was cancelled . You mention Pay at the Pump , if indeed it proves to be you and you are at fault then your Bank Statement will confirm it either way .
If it proves to be the day you drove off without using the pump because you had forgotten your wallet then they will have to prove otherwise .
If it proves to be the day you drove off without using the pump because you had forgotten your wallet then they will have to prove otherwise .
Edited by reddiesel on Monday 8th December 15:01
There was a recent thread about this, ive had one of these, said I put £100 of diesel into my petrol fiesta....
I always use pay at pump and get a receipt, had about 3-4 letters each time adding more 'fines'
Getting annoyed I sent a recorded letter with a copy of their letter and details of my car saying I hope the next I hear from them is court papers or confirmation they had cancelled everything, never heard a thing back
I always use pay at pump and get a receipt, had about 3-4 letters each time adding more 'fines'
Getting annoyed I sent a recorded letter with a copy of their letter and details of my car saying I hope the next I hear from them is court papers or confirmation they had cancelled everything, never heard a thing back
I had something similar last year.
I also did pay-at-pump. I scanned the club card and put my bank card into the machine which enabled me to fill my car. (as this is PH, it was a Lexus ISF).
As I was keeping a record of mpg, I wanted a receipt so that I could work out the mpg. The pump didn't print one so I went to the kiosk to ask for one but the staff said there's no record of the transaction and I'd have to go to the main store for the receipt, which I did.
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
TLDR; the system isn't infallible.
I also did pay-at-pump. I scanned the club card and put my bank card into the machine which enabled me to fill my car. (as this is PH, it was a Lexus ISF).
As I was keeping a record of mpg, I wanted a receipt so that I could work out the mpg. The pump didn't print one so I went to the kiosk to ask for one but the staff said there's no record of the transaction and I'd have to go to the main store for the receipt, which I did.
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
TLDR; the system isn't infallible.
I once had the police knock on my door to say I had not paid for petrol. I had put petrol in, gone into shop and got some flowers, paid for those and completely forgot the petrol
Police were fine, I was mortified, went straight to garage and paid. Think the police realised if was a pure accident and I was surprised they were involved.
Police were fine, I was mortified, went straight to garage and paid. Think the police realised if was a pure accident and I was surprised they were involved.
Writhing said:
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
Not round my part of the country they wouldn't. It would be regarded as a civil matter, not a police matter.The police recognise that accidental non payments happen all the time, and they wouldn't even entertain prosecuting or chasing up payment, afterall the police aren't the petrol stations private debt collectors.
The police would only investigate an obvious theft, such as the car displaying a stolen number plate, filling a tank on the back seat etc. Otherwise they tell the petrol station to apply to the DVLA for the cars registered keeper details, write to them demanding payment and only after a reasonable time has passed with no payment received would the police treat it as a possible theft.
The petrol stations dont like this as they have to pay the DVLA for the information and so instead they report then to the police in the hope they will find the driver and 'have a word' with them. Which they wont do.
in the OP's case the petrol staton realise the police wont entertain the mater and so are clearly paying for a third party to chase up payment, at perhaps considerable expense to the petrol station.
Edited by The Gauge on Monday 8th December 15:54
It takes time for them to get your details from DVLA (I've never done that but there's a form involved and I bet it's not a quick turnaround), then process internally etc and with solicitors. 2.5 months probably isn't unreasonable.
Do you have Google timeline on your phone? I use that as a good reminder of where I've been, if ever needed. Also good evidence if I'm ever wrongly accused of a murder....
Do you have Google timeline on your phone? I use that as a good reminder of where I've been, if ever needed. Also good evidence if I'm ever wrongly accused of a murder....
Edited by Tiglon on Monday 8th December 17:22
Tiglon said:
It takes time for them to get your details from HMRC (I've never done that but there's a form involved and I bet it's not a quick turnaround), then process internally etc and with solicitors. 2.5 months probably isn't unreasonable.
Do you have Google timeline on your phone? I use that as a good reminder of where I've been, if ever needed. Also good evidence if I'm ever wrongly accused of a murder....
DVLA ?Do you have Google timeline on your phone? I use that as a good reminder of where I've been, if ever needed. Also good evidence if I'm ever wrongly accused of a murder....
I did this quite recently, forgot to pay at Tesco. Popped back and paid later, they were in the process of filling in an online form about it , It must happen all the time nowadays with the choice to pay at pump or kiosk.
I received something in August - it was for my registration, but because somebody had cloned my plate.
Mine included a photo but not one that would help the OP - it basically just showed a driver and passenger sitting in the car while driving - not even at the petrol pump. I guess it was on entry / exit or something but I don't remember there even being petrol pumps in the photo so it didn't prove much!
Mine was much quicker though - about 4 weeks after the offence.
Mine included a photo but not one that would help the OP - it basically just showed a driver and passenger sitting in the car while driving - not even at the petrol pump. I guess it was on entry / exit or something but I don't remember there even being petrol pumps in the photo so it didn't prove much!
Mine was much quicker though - about 4 weeks after the offence.
The Gauge said:
Writhing said:
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
Not round my part of the country they wouldn't. It would be regarded as a civil matter, not a police matter.The police recognise that accidental non payments happen all the time, and they wouldn't even entertain prosecuting or chasing up payment, afterall the police aren't the petrol stations private debt collectors.
The police would only investigate an obvious theft, such as the car displaying a stolen number plate, filling a tank on the back seat etc. Otherwise they tell the petrol station to apply to the DVLA for the cars registered keeper details, write to them demanding payment and only after a reasonable time has passed with no payment received would the police treat it as a possible theft.
The petrol stations dont like this as they have to pay the DVLA for the information and so instead they report then to the police in the hope they will find the driver and 'have a word' with them. Which they wont do.
in the OP's case the petrol staton realise the police wont entertain the mater and so are clearly paying for a third party to chase up payment, at perhaps considerable expense to the petrol station.
Edited by The Gauge on Monday 8th December 15:54
I paid for the petrol but instead of the Autogas the teller charged me for a cylinder of Calor gas he expected me to pick up on the way out.
I didn't notice as there was only a 2 or 3 pound difference in the price.
It was a company car and the fleet manager was definitely contacted by the Police.
Petrol Station manager was a tool. Once we established what had happened he could not take a payment of the balance by card over the phone.
The petrol station was in Maidenhead and I was on the road to Scotland.
He demanded I turn round and come back to sort it out or he'd phone the Police again.
I joked "tell them they'll never take me alive" then recieved a phone call from a pissed off fleet manager who had been called by the same Police Officer as before and said Police Officer had not a sense of humour.
The Gauge said:
Not round my part of the country they wouldn't. It would be regarded as a civil matter, not a police matter.
The police recognise that accidental non payments happen all the time, and they wouldn't even entertain prosecuting or chasing up payment, afterall the police aren't the petrol stations private debt collectors.
The police would only investigate an obvious theft, such as the car displaying a stolen number plate, filling a tank on the back seat etc. Otherwise they tell the petrol station to apply to the DVLA for the cars registered keeper details, write to them demanding payment and only after a reasonable time has passed with no payment received would the police treat it as a possible theft.
The petrol stations dont like this as they have to pay the DVLA for the information and so instead they report then to the police in the hope they will find the driver and 'have a word' with them. Which they wont do.
in the OP's case the petrol staton realise the police wont entertain the mater and so are clearly paying for a third party to chase up payment, at perhaps considerable expense to the petrol station.
Yes times have changed for the better. The police always dealt with drive offs in the past even the innocent ones were either knock on a door or a phone call first it was a right pain to be honest, every case had to be dealt with.The police recognise that accidental non payments happen all the time, and they wouldn't even entertain prosecuting or chasing up payment, afterall the police aren't the petrol stations private debt collectors.
The police would only investigate an obvious theft, such as the car displaying a stolen number plate, filling a tank on the back seat etc. Otherwise they tell the petrol station to apply to the DVLA for the cars registered keeper details, write to them demanding payment and only after a reasonable time has passed with no payment received would the police treat it as a possible theft.
The petrol stations dont like this as they have to pay the DVLA for the information and so instead they report then to the police in the hope they will find the driver and 'have a word' with them. Which they wont do.
in the OP's case the petrol staton realise the police wont entertain the mater and so are clearly paying for a third party to chase up payment, at perhaps considerable expense to the petrol station.
Edited by The Gauge on Monday 8th December 15:54
Writhing said:
I had something similar last year.
I also did pay-at-pump. I scanned the club card and put my bank card into the machine which enabled me to fill my car. (as this is PH, it was a Lexus ISF).
As I was keeping a record of mpg, I wanted a receipt so that I could work out the mpg. The pump didn't print one so I went to the kiosk to ask for one but the staff said there's no record of the transaction and I'd have to go to the main store for the receipt, which I did.
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
TLDR; the system isn't infallible.
Similar thing (sort of) happened to me but I went into the store to pay. We had just picked up a puppy that morning and stopped for fuel on the drive back, I got out, filled the car and walked into the store to pay, tapped my phone on the reader after confirming which pump I was at and asked the person behind the till if they had a tap around the back (puppy had made a mess of herself). About 6 weeks later I got a demand for iirc about £120, £60 for a tank full on an i30N and about £60 fine. Whats annoying is I remember walking into the store and tapping my phone and the person behind the till made no effort to ask me to tap again, I assume it didnt go through properly or needed the card inserting. I was of course happy to pay for the fuel but a bit pissed off at the other £60 charge. Double checked my bank account and no record of any money coming out to a petrol station that day. PITA but just paid it as I knew it wouldnt be worth my time arguing with them about it. I also did pay-at-pump. I scanned the club card and put my bank card into the machine which enabled me to fill my car. (as this is PH, it was a Lexus ISF).
As I was keeping a record of mpg, I wanted a receipt so that I could work out the mpg. The pump didn't print one so I went to the kiosk to ask for one but the staff said there's no record of the transaction and I'd have to go to the main store for the receipt, which I did.
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
TLDR; the system isn't infallible.
DT1975 said:
Tiglon said:
It takes time for them to get your details from HMRC (I've never done that but there's a form involved and I bet it's not a quick turnaround), then process internally etc and with solicitors. 2.5 months probably isn't unreasonable.
Do you have Google timeline on your phone? I use that as a good reminder of where I've been, if ever needed. Also good evidence if I'm ever wrongly accused of a murder....
DVLA ?Do you have Google timeline on your phone? I use that as a good reminder of where I've been, if ever needed. Also good evidence if I'm ever wrongly accused of a murder....
I did this quite recently, forgot to pay at Tesco. Popped back and paid later, they were in the process of filling in an online form about it , It must happen all the time nowadays with the choice to pay at pump or kiosk.
DT1975 said:
Yes times have changed for the better. The police always dealt with drive offs in the past even the innocent ones were either knock on a door or a phone call first it was a right pain to be honest, every case had to be dealt with.
yeh, they just don't have time nowadays to chase debt, plus its not really their job to do so, but if there are clear signs of an intentional theft rather than a possible mistake then they will investigate.if the registered keeper doesn't respond to a letter from the petrol station then there would be enough suspicion for the police that a theft might have occurred. Though i'm sure each force will have their own policy on the subject.
Edited by The Gauge on Monday 8th December 18:48
The Gauge said:
DT1975 said:
Yes times have changed for the better. The police always dealt with drive offs in the past even the innocent ones were either knock on a door or a phone call first it was a right pain to be honest, every case had to be dealt with.
yeh, they just don't have time nowadays to chase debt, plus its not really their job to do so, but if there are clear signs of an intentional theft rather than a possible mistake then they will investigate.if the registered keeper doesn't respond to a letter from the petrol station then there would be enough suspicion for the police that a theft might have occurred. Though i'm sure each force will have their own policy on the subject.
Edited by The Gauge on Monday 8th December 18:48
Where a victim or their representative reports a making off without payment from a garage forecourt, the
incident will be recorded in accordance with the basic principle of NCRS. Recording should not be
delayed to allow the matter to be fully investigated nor should it be treated as purely a civil matter.
The fact that a making off occurred will usually be sufficient to require the recording of a crime unless
there is credible evidence to show the act was an innocent mistake.
Bigends said:
Current Police counting rules
Where a victim or their representative reports a making off without payment from a garage forecourt, the
incident will be recorded in accordance with the basic principle of NCRS. Recording should not be
delayed to allow the matter to be fully investigated nor should it be treated as purely a civil matter.
The fact that a making off occurred will usually be sufficient to require the recording of a crime unless
there is credible evidence to show the act was an innocent mistake.
The police may well record it, as they do nearly most things, but without any contributory factors suggesting it was intentional they will usually close the report at source without investigating. Add an element of suspicion such as incorrect number plate or filling up through the rear door window into a storage tank and then it gets investigated from the beginning, which effectively means the petrol station CCTV will be poor quality and not show a reasonable image of the persons face, and there's nothing can be done, so it gets closed!!Where a victim or their representative reports a making off without payment from a garage forecourt, the
incident will be recorded in accordance with the basic principle of NCRS. Recording should not be
delayed to allow the matter to be fully investigated nor should it be treated as purely a civil matter.
The fact that a making off occurred will usually be sufficient to require the recording of a crime unless
there is credible evidence to show the act was an innocent mistake.
It is accepted by the petrol stations themselves that people drive off innocently (I've done it myself) and they tend to only report those instances where there is an element of suspicion.
Edited by The Gauge on Monday 8th December 21:34
Writhing said:
I had something similar last year.
I also did pay-at-pump. I scanned the club card and put my bank card into the machine which enabled me to fill my car. (as this is PH, it was a Lexus ISF).
As I was keeping a record of mpg, I wanted a receipt so that I could work out the mpg. The pump didn't print one so I went to the kiosk to ask for one but the staff said there's no record of the transaction and I'd have to go to the main store for the receipt, which I did.
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
TLDR; the system isn't infallible.
yep, that happened to me once when i thought i'd give it a go (pay at pump). It just confused me so as a luddite I stick with pay at the kiosk.I also did pay-at-pump. I scanned the club card and put my bank card into the machine which enabled me to fill my car. (as this is PH, it was a Lexus ISF).
As I was keeping a record of mpg, I wanted a receipt so that I could work out the mpg. The pump didn't print one so I went to the kiosk to ask for one but the staff said there's no record of the transaction and I'd have to go to the main store for the receipt, which I did.
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
TLDR; the system isn't infallible.
Writhing said:
I had something similar last year.
I also did pay-at-pump. I scanned the club card and put my bank card into the machine which enabled me to fill my car. (as this is PH, it was a Lexus ISF).
As I was keeping a record of mpg, I wanted a receipt so that I could work out the mpg. The pump didn't print one so I went to the kiosk to ask for one but the staff said there's no record of the transaction and I'd have to go to the main store for the receipt, which I did.
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
TLDR; the system isn't infallible.
I think i had something similar maybe 4 months ago, first time card was declined, i tried again in case i’d done pin wrong and it was accepted, put £40ish in to top up, but then had a spinning circle image and please wait message, stayed for a while waiting for receipt but gave up and took a photo of the pump figures instead and drove off.I also did pay-at-pump. I scanned the club card and put my bank card into the machine which enabled me to fill my car. (as this is PH, it was a Lexus ISF).
As I was keeping a record of mpg, I wanted a receipt so that I could work out the mpg. The pump didn't print one so I went to the kiosk to ask for one but the staff said there's no record of the transaction and I'd have to go to the main store for the receipt, which I did.
However, after looking at their computer system, the store manager realised that the bank card scanned ok which allowed to pump to work but the system didn't record the transaction or take payment. I jokingly suggested I should have driven away but the manager said it would have been registered as a drive-away and , as it's on CCTV, The Police would have turned up at my house.
TLDR; the system isn't infallible.
So far no payment taken on cc and no letter either.
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