is "Premium" and "BMW" really a thing these days?
Discussion
This stems from the budget announcement to stop motability claimants getting premium cars, such as BMW.
What immediately sprung to my mind was whether the "premium" label is actually distinguishable these days.
The classic premium car, in my view, had some leather, a powerful'ish engine, and auto box and the latest tech. Think late 90s, mid 20s - there was a difference between a Vectra and a C Class.
Now though, the very items that make a car "premium" are available, and more, for budget prices. The interior of a new BMW, isn't distinguishable from a new Hyundai in any meaningful way. Due to EV's, the performance difference isn't really a thing either, in fact Hyundai's has quicker EV's than BMW. You can also extend traditional premium offerings to the Chinese cars inbound, which have leather, the latest tech, performance, leaving the real difference down to individual subjectivity.
If we think about what a step up would be to the Luxury class, then the evidence is still there, because when you get into a Rolls or Bentley, everything is turned up to 11.
I'd argue that premium isn't really a thing today, and instead mainstream has become premium.
Thoughts?
What immediately sprung to my mind was whether the "premium" label is actually distinguishable these days.
The classic premium car, in my view, had some leather, a powerful'ish engine, and auto box and the latest tech. Think late 90s, mid 20s - there was a difference between a Vectra and a C Class.
Now though, the very items that make a car "premium" are available, and more, for budget prices. The interior of a new BMW, isn't distinguishable from a new Hyundai in any meaningful way. Due to EV's, the performance difference isn't really a thing either, in fact Hyundai's has quicker EV's than BMW. You can also extend traditional premium offerings to the Chinese cars inbound, which have leather, the latest tech, performance, leaving the real difference down to individual subjectivity.
If we think about what a step up would be to the Luxury class, then the evidence is still there, because when you get into a Rolls or Bentley, everything is turned up to 11.
I'd argue that premium isn't really a thing today, and instead mainstream has become premium.
Thoughts?
A 1 series isn’t a premium car, I’d argue a 3 borderline, 5 series up, yes.
Although there’s much more to it than that. Fit and finish, NVH and material quality play a huge part as well as tech integration these days .
Generally, as you climb the segments (as in B,C,D etc) you get better materials, lower NVH etc.
Although there’s much more to it than that. Fit and finish, NVH and material quality play a huge part as well as tech integration these days .
Generally, as you climb the segments (as in B,C,D etc) you get better materials, lower NVH etc.
To non-car people the old german brands are still seen as premium.
A family member was describing his friends "posh bmw" to me last week, when he turned up it was a 116d.
I'd still consider 7 series to be "premium" but the lower models have to be built to a cost, in the 90s they didn't make cheap hatchbacks, as time has moved on they've moved into this market and armed with cleverly designed PCP financing models managed to replace the previously dominant astra/escort segment with their own lower priced offerings.
A family member was describing his friends "posh bmw" to me last week, when he turned up it was a 116d.
I'd still consider 7 series to be "premium" but the lower models have to be built to a cost, in the 90s they didn't make cheap hatchbacks, as time has moved on they've moved into this market and armed with cleverly designed PCP financing models managed to replace the previously dominant astra/escort segment with their own lower priced offerings.
Agree
BMW / Audi / Mercedes etc. in the 90s / 2000s were mainly considered premium and if you seen one of these sitting in a works car park, you immediately knew who the high earners were. The cars themselves, as you mentioned, usually had plush leather interiors, good sound system, memory seats, cruise control etc and the body type of the car would stick out from the crowd of astras / vectras / escorts etc.
Now I look in my car park and the apprentices are driving almost new BMW's and Audis so its not that they cant be bought by only the affable. Monthlies are now the "rich persons" purchase. Cost aside, I've been in some modern German machinery and it leaves me cold, especially having driven some cars which 20 years ago would have been considered budget or even crap. Modern KIA's ., hyundais, skoda etc are full of good tech and come with 7 year warranties, drive well and are almost indistinguishable against some german cars.
BMW / Audi / Mercedes etc. in the 90s / 2000s were mainly considered premium and if you seen one of these sitting in a works car park, you immediately knew who the high earners were. The cars themselves, as you mentioned, usually had plush leather interiors, good sound system, memory seats, cruise control etc and the body type of the car would stick out from the crowd of astras / vectras / escorts etc.
Now I look in my car park and the apprentices are driving almost new BMW's and Audis so its not that they cant be bought by only the affable. Monthlies are now the "rich persons" purchase. Cost aside, I've been in some modern German machinery and it leaves me cold, especially having driven some cars which 20 years ago would have been considered budget or even crap. Modern KIA's ., hyundais, skoda etc are full of good tech and come with 7 year warranties, drive well and are almost indistinguishable against some german cars.
I'd argue that a 1series is still premium when compared to the offerings from MG, PSA Group, Seat/Skoda etc. Naturally there will be some crossover where the cheaper BMW against the more expensive competitor versions the gap narrows considerably, but I'd rather the BMW version over an MG3 all day.
With platform sharing objectively making most cars very similar, only subjective differences can be made. Premium is just a marketing word and is a way of extracting more money from those who need purchase validation.
After all, if a certain hotel chain puts the word "Premier" in its corporate name, would you assume everything is premier in nature compared to the competition?
After all, if a certain hotel chain puts the word "Premier" in its corporate name, would you assume everything is premier in nature compared to the competition?
Phateuk said:
To non-car people the old German brands are still seen as premium.
Absolutely, that's why cars like the A1 and 1 Series are so popular as they're not particularly premium in terms of build but the badge to some gives off whiff of premium. I think this goes for Mercedes, Audi and BMW that until you get higher up in the range, the cars start to feel premium. worsy said:
I'd argue that a 1series is still premium when compared to the offerings from MG, PSA Group, Seat/Skoda etc. Naturally there will be some crossover where the cheaper BMW against the more expensive competitor versions the gap narrows considerably, but I'd rather the BMW version over an MG3 all day.
I mean compared to the real cheap stuff like MG, Dacia etc. But is a 1 series vastly different in quality to an A1? And the A1 feels like comparable models to other VAG products. I use the A1 as an example as my mum has one, it's been a good car so not a criticism but it's not more premium than the equivalent Polo. Alex_225 said:
Phateuk said:
To non-car people the old German brands are still seen as premium.
Absolutely, that's why cars like the A1 and 1 Series are so popular as they're not particularly premium in terms of build but the badge to some gives off whiff of premium. I think this goes for Mercedes, Audi and BMW that until you get higher up in the range, the cars start to feel premium. worsy said:
I'd argue that a 1series is still premium when compared to the offerings from MG, PSA Group, Seat/Skoda etc. Naturally there will be some crossover where the cheaper BMW against the more expensive competitor versions the gap narrows considerably, but I'd rather the BMW version over an MG3 all day.
I mean compared to the real cheap stuff like MG, Dacia etc. But is a 1 series vastly different in quality to an A1? And the A1 feels like comparable models to other VAG products. I use the A1 as an example as my mum has one, it's been a good car so not a criticism but it's not more premium than the equivalent Polo. worsy said:
I'd argue that a 1series is still premium when compared to the offerings from MG, PSA Group, Seat/Skoda etc. Naturally there will be some crossover where the cheaper BMW against the more expensive competitor versions the gap narrows considerably, but I'd rather the BMW version over an MG3 all day.
Not sure about the 1-series or the MG3, but I've got a 2025 (old generation) Merc CLA at the moment as a hire car while my Lotus is being repaired. My wife has an MG4. If both cars are available, it's the keys to the MG which I grab because IMO it's simply a better car - it rides better, handles better, is quieter, the steering has more feel, the brakes are easier to modulate and have better feel, the drive-train is more responsive and refined, the "driver aids" are less intrusive,...The Merc does do a few things better - most obviously, MBUX is a clear step ahead of the MG user interface, although even that is ruined by the god-awful haptic buttons used to drive it from the steering wheel. The Merc also has slightly better seats and the sound system sounds slightly better, but that's about it.
The thing which astonished me about the Mercedes is how utterly dire the gearbox is. It's an (I think) 7-speed dual-clutch thing and it's horrible. For that alone, I can't wait to get rid of the thing.
Feel like I have to go into bat for the 1 Series specifically here, as I've run one for nearly 12 years and am looking to get another next year.
I ran it for 4 years alongside a similar age but lower mileage Civic - a non-premium but hardly bargain basic car from the same class - and the differences were striking.
Mechanically the Civic was fine and generally well put together save for an ability to eat its own front suspension, but when comparing the rest of the car you could definitely see where the extra money for the 1 Series went.
The interior of the Civic never felt like a particularly high quality item, with dubious plastics and highly questionable build. Various doors would refuse to open, the AC was broken due to a design flaw from Honda, the rear window leaked and the handbrake lever itself snapped. Whereas with the BMW I've had to fix a door lock and from memory needed a new head unit.
Despite it's 186k miles everything works, there are no real rattles and other than some shiny leather, you'd struggle to tell how many miles it has done.
The Civic has also just been condemed as the underside was mostly made out of rust, whilst the 1 Series still seems to be doing ok in that regard (touch wood, MOT is in January).
My nephew has bought a 128ti and it seems built inside to a similar standard, albeit with updated tech, and I have no reason to believe it won't hit a similar mileage.
I ran it for 4 years alongside a similar age but lower mileage Civic - a non-premium but hardly bargain basic car from the same class - and the differences were striking.
Mechanically the Civic was fine and generally well put together save for an ability to eat its own front suspension, but when comparing the rest of the car you could definitely see where the extra money for the 1 Series went.
The interior of the Civic never felt like a particularly high quality item, with dubious plastics and highly questionable build. Various doors would refuse to open, the AC was broken due to a design flaw from Honda, the rear window leaked and the handbrake lever itself snapped. Whereas with the BMW I've had to fix a door lock and from memory needed a new head unit.
Despite it's 186k miles everything works, there are no real rattles and other than some shiny leather, you'd struggle to tell how many miles it has done.
The Civic has also just been condemed as the underside was mostly made out of rust, whilst the 1 Series still seems to be doing ok in that regard (touch wood, MOT is in January).
My nephew has bought a 128ti and it seems built inside to a similar standard, albeit with updated tech, and I have no reason to believe it won't hit a similar mileage.
kambites said:
The Merc does do a few things better - most obviously, MBUX is a clear step ahead of the MG user interface, although even that is ruined by the god-awful haptic buttons used to drive it from the steering wheel. The Merc also has slightly better seats and the sound system sounds slightly better, but that's about it.
The thing which astonished me about the Mercedes is how utterly dire the gearbox is. It's an (I think) 7-speed dual-clutch thing and it's horrible. For that alone, I can't wait to get rid of the thing.
This is what I find so strange in every EV review on here, so many people will hail any ICE car as superior to an EV, but the reality is all run of the mill ICE cars now are so terrible, bland, bad gearing, low power, interfering electronics. Daily driving a special AMG/M type car can leave you blinkered towards the merits of ICE but the reality is joe public are driving round in a 1.2 corsa.The thing which astonished me about the Mercedes is how utterly dire the gearbox is. It's an (I think) 7-speed dual-clutch thing and it's horrible. For that alone, I can't wait to get rid of the thing.
I had a mk7 golf courtesy car last week with the 2.0tdi engine and it was so unrefined, terrible gear changes from the auto as well, I couldn't wait to be out of it.
People think because cars all look the same and do the same thing that they are the same.
Recently I changed companies and cars from a
2023 Passat r line to a Audi a4 2022 model, the A4 is significantly more premium, I thought the Passat was comfy and refined but the a4 is another league, more sound proofing, significantly better sound system with a subwoofer and good quality everywhere in interior not just the bits in eyeline.
It’s even small bits like the light in the boot and glove box being LED strips, the Passat had halogen
Recently I changed companies and cars from a
2023 Passat r line to a Audi a4 2022 model, the A4 is significantly more premium, I thought the Passat was comfy and refined but the a4 is another league, more sound proofing, significantly better sound system with a subwoofer and good quality everywhere in interior not just the bits in eyeline.
It’s even small bits like the light in the boot and glove box being LED strips, the Passat had halogen
MrSpanky49 said:
A 1 series isn t a premium car, I d argue a 3 borderline, 5 series up, yes.
Although there s much more to it than that. Fit and finish, NVH and material quality play a huge part as well as tech integration these days .
Generally, as you climb the segments (as in B,C,D etc) you get better materials, lower NVH etc.
My new 5 series NVH is very good and cerainly what you'd expect for premium. However in other cases it is not premium.Although there s much more to it than that. Fit and finish, NVH and material quality play a huge part as well as tech integration these days .
Generally, as you climb the segments (as in B,C,D etc) you get better materials, lower NVH etc.
No door bin mats (meaning anything put in there rattles around), passenger seat belt buckle that rattles against A pillar, etc.
BlueJazz said:
Alex_225 said:
Phateuk said:
To non-car people the old German brands are still seen as premium.
Absolutely, that's why cars like the A1 and 1 Series are so popular as they're not particularly premium in terms of build but the badge to some gives off whiff of premium. I think this goes for Mercedes, Audi and BMW that until you get higher up in the range, the cars start to feel premium. worsy said:
I'd argue that a 1series is still premium when compared to the offerings from MG, PSA Group, Seat/Skoda etc. Naturally there will be some crossover where the cheaper BMW against the more expensive competitor versions the gap narrows considerably, but I'd rather the BMW version over an MG3 all day.
I mean compared to the real cheap stuff like MG, Dacia etc. But is a 1 series vastly different in quality to an A1? And the A1 feels like comparable models to other VAG products. I use the A1 as an example as my mum has one, it's been a good car so not a criticism but it's not more premium than the equivalent Polo. Thanks to PCP schemes, "premium" cars are everywhere, all purchased on the never never. When every other car at times seems to be a BMW or Audi etc., they can't be described as premium. The alternative is that everyone is much wealthier than they used to be and I'm not sure that's the case.
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