Challenging a Will
Discussion
A friend of mine - we shall call him M - has just had his father pass away and there's about £750K at stake.
As one of two surviving children M would normally be in line for some of it.
The problem is that his father remarried 20 years ago. The new wife was by all accounts grasping, persuaded the old man to disown his biological children and change his Will so that her children from a previous marriage get the Estate instead. His real family get nothing, and letters I've seen say that they were quite determined they'll get nothing and the Will is written so it can't be challenged, or somesuch. In other words they were expecting the family to challenge it.
Does my friend have any chance at all of clawing any of his inheritance back? Links to any suitable resources or specialist solicitors would be most welcome. If the answer is 'no chance' then I'll pass that on too.
As one of two surviving children M would normally be in line for some of it.
The problem is that his father remarried 20 years ago. The new wife was by all accounts grasping, persuaded the old man to disown his biological children and change his Will so that her children from a previous marriage get the Estate instead. His real family get nothing, and letters I've seen say that they were quite determined they'll get nothing and the Will is written so it can't be challenged, or somesuch. In other words they were expecting the family to challenge it.
Does my friend have any chance at all of clawing any of his inheritance back? Links to any suitable resources or specialist solicitors would be most welcome. If the answer is 'no chance' then I'll pass that on too.
It depends on what persuaded means.
If the old man was of questionable mind and you have evidence of this, such as medical or other (bouts of amnesia/confusion/dementia) then you may have a chance of trying to have the will challenged.
If there is no other will, it would fall back to intestate rules and if he s remarried, that would likely go to spouse (IANAL).
If the will was not properly witnessed then you could challenge a technicality perhaps.
Chances are, there is no law of a person of sound mind being led by their todger to do something others may find reprehensible - A will grants you the right be a knob if you wish.
One challenge you may find is that unless you re the executor/next of kin pending such, your ability to request things like the medical history is limited.
Ironically, the way to get the power to access the medical records and see if there are grounds to challenge the will is a by applying for probate the process of which confirms the will as is!?!
Others may have more learned responses. Mine comes from reading a fair bit as an executor and having to explore the validity of a will as a result of that.
I ultimately decided against it and went with the hand I was dealt to deliver the (imo flawed) will as is.
If the old man was of questionable mind and you have evidence of this, such as medical or other (bouts of amnesia/confusion/dementia) then you may have a chance of trying to have the will challenged.
If there is no other will, it would fall back to intestate rules and if he s remarried, that would likely go to spouse (IANAL).
If the will was not properly witnessed then you could challenge a technicality perhaps.
Chances are, there is no law of a person of sound mind being led by their todger to do something others may find reprehensible - A will grants you the right be a knob if you wish.
One challenge you may find is that unless you re the executor/next of kin pending such, your ability to request things like the medical history is limited.
Ironically, the way to get the power to access the medical records and see if there are grounds to challenge the will is a by applying for probate the process of which confirms the will as is!?!
Others may have more learned responses. Mine comes from reading a fair bit as an executor and having to explore the validity of a will as a result of that.
I ultimately decided against it and went with the hand I was dealt to deliver the (imo flawed) will as is.
Simpo Two said:
A friend of mine - we shall call him M - has just had his father pass away and there's about £750K at stake.
As one of two surviving children M would normally be in line for some of it.
The problem is that his father remarried 20 years ago. The new wife was by all accounts grasping, persuaded the old man to disown his biological children and change his Will so that her children from a previous marriage get the Estate instead. His real family get nothing, and letters I've seen say that they were quite determined they'll get nothing and the Will is written so it can't be challenged, or somesuch. In other words they were expecting the family to challenge it.
Does my friend have any chance at all of clawing any of his inheritance back? Links to any suitable resources or specialist solicitors would be most welcome. If the answer is 'no chance' then I'll pass that on too.
When was the will written? Is the wife still alive, did they have any children together and how many children has she got?As one of two surviving children M would normally be in line for some of it.
The problem is that his father remarried 20 years ago. The new wife was by all accounts grasping, persuaded the old man to disown his biological children and change his Will so that her children from a previous marriage get the Estate instead. His real family get nothing, and letters I've seen say that they were quite determined they'll get nothing and the Will is written so it can't be challenged, or somesuch. In other words they were expecting the family to challenge it.
Does my friend have any chance at all of clawing any of his inheritance back? Links to any suitable resources or specialist solicitors would be most welcome. If the answer is 'no chance' then I'll pass that on too.
From 1st hand experience of a will challenge............unless they have some real 'evidence' of either coercion or lack of capacity then best walk away....IIRC a Will automatically becomes invalid on remarriage anyway......seek a specialist lawyer 'ACTAPS'....for a 1hr consultation if in any doubt.
A marriage cancels out any previous will made, so even if he hadn t made a will after marrying then his new wife would inherit everything. The fact his new will leaves everything to her kids would make it absolute in my mind, unless he wasn t of sound mind when making the will, but in that case she would get everything
You don t even need to be of sound mind to marry though you d need a vicar etc that was prepared to conduct the marriage. Victims of fraud can suffer this way.
You don t even need to be of sound mind to marry though you d need a vicar etc that was prepared to conduct the marriage. Victims of fraud can suffer this way.
Simpo Two said:
A friend of mine - we shall call him M - has just had his father pass away and there's about £750K at stake.
As one of two surviving children M would normally be in line for some of it.
The problem is that his father remarried 20 years ago. The new wife was by all accounts grasping, persuaded the old man to disown his biological children and change his Will so that her children from a previous marriage get the Estate instead. His real family get nothing, and letters I've seen say that they were quite determined they'll get nothing and the Will is written so it can't be challenged, or somesuch. In other words they were expecting the family to challenge it.
Does my friend have any chance at all of clawing any of his inheritance back? Links to any suitable resources or specialist solicitors would be most welcome. If the answer is 'no chance' then I'll pass that on too.
I was Executor for a relative who had inherited some money from a friend some 7 years prior to her death but due to an individual putting a block on the process ( costing him nothing to do and whilst claiming the will was unfair and not what had been promised to him ) and then further inactivity from the other beneficiaries of his will meant that a similar sum had been delayed.As one of two surviving children M would normally be in line for some of it.
The problem is that his father remarried 20 years ago. The new wife was by all accounts grasping, persuaded the old man to disown his biological children and change his Will so that her children from a previous marriage get the Estate instead. His real family get nothing, and letters I've seen say that they were quite determined they'll get nothing and the Will is written so it can't be challenged, or somesuch. In other words they were expecting the family to challenge it.
Does my friend have any chance at all of clawing any of his inheritance back? Links to any suitable resources or specialist solicitors would be most welcome. If the answer is 'no chance' then I'll pass that on too.
Whilst the case with my involvement ( previously I was acting as my relatives litigation friend ) then proceeded to court with the aid of a barrister and ultimately a victory for the real will it still cost around 15% of the inheritance in legal fees.
I wanted to draw the line there but one of the other beneficiaries has insisted on taking the same individual to court to recover his costs which is only ever going to be 70% and he isn't going to pay anyway and will leave the country.
Long story sorry but in reality if the will is genuine and correctly signed and witnessed then whilst a similar stop can be put on it by your friend the expense's clock will start ticking at that point and he will have to fund 100% of that and his chances of anything are going to be (imho and not as a Legal bod) virtually non existent.
Simpo Two said:
A friend of mine - we shall call him M - has just had his father pass away and there's about £750K at stake.
As one of two surviving children M would normally be in line for some of it.
Why? Is he owed money by the father in the form of an unsatisfied loan?As one of two surviving children M would normally be in line for some of it.
What about if the father had bequeathed it all to charity, or some other entity. Would he be "in line for some of it" then?
Simpo Two said:
The problem is that his father remarried 20 years ago. The new wife was by all accounts grasping
..so, like M now then.Simpo Two said:
...persuaded the old man to disown his biological children and change his Will so that her children from a previous marriage get the Estate instead. His real family get nothing, and letters I've seen say that they were quite determined they'll get nothing and the Will is written so it can't be challenged, or somesuch. In other words they were expecting the family to challenge it.
"Real family", nice. Never mind the father's agency and how he might have considered his children-in-law. For all anyone knows his "real family" was estranged, only reappearing when smelling a payday, and the "fake family" (of 20 years no less) were there on a day-to-day basis.Simpo Two said:
Does my friend have any chance at all of clawing any of his inheritance back? Links to any suitable resources or specialist solicitors would be most welcome. If the answer is 'no chance' then I'll pass that on too.
They might do, depending on a variety of factors. Most importantly it will depend on a) when the latest will was drafted, b) whether it was done in accordance with protocol (i.e. witnessed & signed at the time, etc). I know there was a recent news article where a will was challenged because it was done when the parent was in hospital, so there were doubts about the timing, and it wasn't properly witnessed.How long ago was the latest will drafted in M's case?
Anecdotally I've read that if a will omits someone entirely then that person is in a better position to challenge it than if they were bequeathed an amount - the logic being that in the latter case they were considered, rather than forgotten about entirely.
The starting point for "M" should be that they are not entitled to anything at all, and anything they do get is a gift.
Edited by Durzel on Thursday 11th December 14:07
Nothingofnote said:
If the old man was of questionable mind and you have evidence of this, such as medical or other (bouts of amnesia/confusion/dementia) then you may have a chance of trying to have the will challenged.
He may have been, but as you say getting evidence could be difficult.Nothingofnote said:
Ironically, the way to get the power to access the medical records and see if there are grounds to challenge the will is a by applying for probate the process of which confirms the will as is!?!
I don't see how M could apply for probate as he's entirely cut out of the loop. Are you saying that once Probate is applied for it's immediately 'proven' and cannot be changed?ExBoringVolvoDriver said:
When was the will written? Is the wife still alive, did they have any children together and how many children has she got?
At a guess, 5 years ago but I don't know, and I don't see how M could find out either. Wife is still alive. No children together. Not sure how many children from previous marriage, but might be able to find out.LimmerickLad said:
seek a specialist lawyer 'ACTAPS'....for a 1hr consultation if in any doubt.
Will pass it on, thanks.There was a series on TV a few years ago about people who challenged Wills. One woman eventually won her case but her costs were so high she had to sell the house she 'won' to pay them...
Simpo Two said:
Nothingofnote said:
If the old man was of questionable mind and you have evidence of this, such as medical or other (bouts of amnesia/confusion/dementia) then you may have a chance of trying to have the will challenged.
He may have been, but as you say getting evidence could be difficult.Nothingofnote said:
Ironically, the way to get the power to access the medical records and see if there are grounds to challenge the will is a by applying for probate the process of which confirms the will as is!?!
I don't see how M could apply for probate as he's entirely cut out of the loop. Are you saying that once Probate is applied for it's immediately 'proven' and cannot be changed?ExBoringVolvoDriver said:
When was the will written? Is the wife still alive, did they have any children together and how many children has she got?
At a guess, 5 years ago but I don't know, and I don't see how M could find out either. Wife is still alive. No children together. Not sure how many children from previous marriage, but might be able to find out.LimmerickLad said:
seek a specialist lawyer 'ACTAPS'....for a 1hr consultation if in any doubt.
Will pass it on, thanks.There was a series on TV a few years ago about people who challenged Wills. One woman eventually won her case but her costs were so high she had to sell the house she 'won' to pay them...
I said this on a slightly different discussion about Wills and inheritances yesterday and upset a few people. As a general rule nobody is entitled to inherit their parent’s wealth. The parents can do with it as they wish.
People relying on it and “having to work until they’re 70” when they don’t receive it ought to have planned their own finances better IMO. I know that’s brutal, but how involved in their father’s life were those wishing to challenge the Will and why do they feel entitled to it?
People relying on it and “having to work until they’re 70” when they don’t receive it ought to have planned their own finances better IMO. I know that’s brutal, but how involved in their father’s life were those wishing to challenge the Will and why do they feel entitled to it?
Opapayer said:
I said this on a slightly different discussion about Wills and inheritances yesterday and upset a few people. As a general rule nobody is entitled to inherit their parent s wealth. The parents can do with it as they wish.
People relying on it and having to work until they re 70 when they don t receive it ought to have planned their own finances better IMO. I know that s brutal, but how involved in their father s life were those wishing to challenge the Will and why do they feel entitled to it?
Agree 100% but they are entitled to receive what their parents wanted them to have.............I wish mine had blown every last penny on touring the world on a cruise ship but a few legal bods are now really pleased they didn't.People relying on it and having to work until they re 70 when they don t receive it ought to have planned their own finances better IMO. I know that s brutal, but how involved in their father s life were those wishing to challenge the Will and why do they feel entitled to it?
LimmerickLad said:
Agree 100% but they are entitled to receive what their parents wanted them to have.............I wish mine had blown every last penny on touring the world on a cruise ship but a few legal bods are now really pleased they didn't.
Which is why people leave Wills which detail exactly what they want to be given to whom. The OP’s friend’s father left a Will, that seems fairly clear, the son seems unhappy because he wants / expects money from it. His father, whose money it is, thought differently for whatever reason. 98elise said:
K4sper said:
Man leaves his estate to his wife of twenty years and that is somehow suspicious 
If the wife is still alive then that would be my take on it. It becomes hers to do as she wants. Thats how marriages work.Our wills are pretty complicated because we both want the children from our first marriages to be treated fairly- it helps that we both trust each other not to get it right, For example, we have a fair bit of cash from MILs estate. I know that, if we haven’t spent it, then it is due to my wife’s son - note with our wills, in the event of us dying together, and my pension monies goes to my kids.
Simpo Two said:
For some reason Durzel's post won't quote, but in reply to 'The starting point for "M" should be that they are not entitled to anything at all, and anything they do get is a gift', that's exactly his view. He's written it off, and is expecting to work until 70 as a result.
If he's written it off and is expecting to work until 70 on what basis does he want to challenge the will and why? Your friend's can put a stop on probate? However be very careful as it can turn very very expensive.
I was in the same position once. My reply to an Aunt was 'he died to me when I was 11yrs old when I cut off all contact. Why would I want his money when hes dead?'.
Why should your friends dads money be his? Serious question.
Edited to add in a second 'very' in bold.
New wife? He'd been with her 20yrs, how's that new?!
I was in the same position once. My reply to an Aunt was 'he died to me when I was 11yrs old when I cut off all contact. Why would I want his money when hes dead?'.
Why should your friends dads money be his? Serious question.
Edited to add in a second 'very' in bold.
New wife? He'd been with her 20yrs, how's that new?!
Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Thursday 11th December 18:46
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