UK Minimum wages/what sort of work
Discussion
I’m trying to understand where things have gone wrong (if they have) with UK minimum wages and what kinds of jobs they’re now meant to apply to.
I always thought minimum wage was for low-responsibility, unskilled work — things like stacking shelves or packing boxes. Not that there’s anything wrong with those jobs, but that’s what I assumed minimum wage was designed for.
What’s surprised me is my own situation. I work a part-time maintenance job that requires training, safe use of chemicals, power tools, basic electrical knowledge, accurate measuring, and building to a high standard. I often use my own laptop out of hours to write reports, supply my own tools, drive vehicles (including tractors and trailers), work outdoors in all weathers, and stay physically fit. Recent tasks have included fencing and gate construction, and rebuilding and retiling a rotten bathroom floor.
All of this is paid at minimum wage. I get the same hourly rate as the non-communicative cleaner with large headphones on constantly with one responsibility of mopping the floors.
Thinking I might quite enjoy a full time job again, I’ve recently applied for a full-time maintenance manager role — described as a senior position — overseeing a team of 3–4 people alongside maintenance work. The salary is £30k, but it requires working six days a week, including every weekend, making it effectively another minimum wage job. Colleagues regularly work extra days just to make the pay feel viable.
Maybe I’m overthinking this — but when did skilled, responsible, and even managerial roles become minimum wage work?
I always thought minimum wage was for low-responsibility, unskilled work — things like stacking shelves or packing boxes. Not that there’s anything wrong with those jobs, but that’s what I assumed minimum wage was designed for.
What’s surprised me is my own situation. I work a part-time maintenance job that requires training, safe use of chemicals, power tools, basic electrical knowledge, accurate measuring, and building to a high standard. I often use my own laptop out of hours to write reports, supply my own tools, drive vehicles (including tractors and trailers), work outdoors in all weathers, and stay physically fit. Recent tasks have included fencing and gate construction, and rebuilding and retiling a rotten bathroom floor.
All of this is paid at minimum wage. I get the same hourly rate as the non-communicative cleaner with large headphones on constantly with one responsibility of mopping the floors.
Thinking I might quite enjoy a full time job again, I’ve recently applied for a full-time maintenance manager role — described as a senior position — overseeing a team of 3–4 people alongside maintenance work. The salary is £30k, but it requires working six days a week, including every weekend, making it effectively another minimum wage job. Colleagues regularly work extra days just to make the pay feel viable.
Maybe I’m overthinking this — but when did skilled, responsible, and even managerial roles become minimum wage work?
This is a major problem for employers at the moment.
The recent minimum wage increases have been pushing 8% or so each year for a few years now and has inevitably pushed the so-called unskilled sector (I hate that term) level of employees into a higher bracket.
Can employers increase by the same percentage across the whole workforce? We certainly can't do that with it seriously affecting our costs and chance of competing. Our warehouse and production operatives were always well paid compared to similar businesses and we have a good record of maintaining our team.
However, we're now in a position where a mid manager role is paying only a couple of thousand more compared the those with fewer responsibilities.
What do we do about that... we cut the costs where we can to ensure the business continues. In our case, that's looking at efficiencies through the business and ultimately investing in robots over people...
Many local businesses are in the same position and it's only going to get harder for business owners and the employees it affects.
The recent minimum wage increases have been pushing 8% or so each year for a few years now and has inevitably pushed the so-called unskilled sector (I hate that term) level of employees into a higher bracket.
Can employers increase by the same percentage across the whole workforce? We certainly can't do that with it seriously affecting our costs and chance of competing. Our warehouse and production operatives were always well paid compared to similar businesses and we have a good record of maintaining our team.
However, we're now in a position where a mid manager role is paying only a couple of thousand more compared the those with fewer responsibilities.
What do we do about that... we cut the costs where we can to ensure the business continues. In our case, that's looking at efficiencies through the business and ultimately investing in robots over people...
Many local businesses are in the same position and it's only going to get harder for business owners and the employees it affects.
Edited by sanguinary on Thursday 18th December 09:31
Sounds like a hospitality maintenance job you are looking at, the salaries are historically low, I did this for 7 years and eventually ended up on £32k after being offered a job elsewhere, it got draining being on call, working weekends when my wife worked Mon-Fri etc, and being the responsible person for everything, for £15/hr, my wife earned a lot more than me so I wasn't worried too much about the money and I enjoyed it but covid ruined it for me, so I got out and moved sideways into local government.
NeilyWheelie said:
What s surprised me is my own situation. I work a part-time maintenance job that requires training, safe use of chemicals, power tools, basic electrical knowledge, accurate measuring, and building to a high standard. I often use my own laptop out of hours to write reports, supply my own tools, drive vehicles (including tractors and trailers), work outdoors in all weathers, and stay physically fit. Recent tasks have included fencing and gate construction, and rebuilding and retiling a rotten bathroom floor.
All of this is paid at minimum wage
Surely the only surprise here is that you are daft enough to do all the skilled stuff for minimum wage. As the other guy above says, if people are dumb enough to work for a pittance then companies will happily pay that.All of this is paid at minimum wage
NeilyWheelie said:
I m trying to understand where things have gone wrong (if they have) with UK minimum wages and what kinds of jobs they re now meant to apply to.
I always thought minimum wage was for low-responsibility, unskilled work things like stacking shelves or packing boxes. Not that there s anything wrong with those jobs, but that s what I assumed minimum wage was designed for.
What s surprised me is my own situation. I work a part-time maintenance job that requires training, safe use of chemicals, power tools, basic electrical knowledge, accurate measuring, and building to a high standard. I often use my own laptop out of hours to write reports, supply my own tools, drive vehicles (including tractors and trailers), work outdoors in all weathers, and stay physically fit. Recent tasks have included fencing and gate construction, and rebuilding and retiling a rotten bathroom floor.
All of this is paid at minimum wage. I get the same hourly rate as the non-communicative cleaner with large headphones on constantly with one responsibility of mopping the floors.
Thinking I might quite enjoy a full time job again, I ve recently applied for a full-time maintenance manager role described as a senior position overseeing a team of 3 4 people alongside maintenance work. The salary is £30k, but it requires working six days a week, including every weekend, making it effectively another minimum wage job. Colleagues regularly work extra days just to make the pay feel viable.
Maybe I m overthinking this but when did skilled, responsible, and even managerial roles become minimum wage work?
You work out of hours doing reports? Congratulations, you are now working for below minimum wage. Hope you enjoy the work but you may as well get a job in a supermarket. At least they don’t take the piss.I always thought minimum wage was for low-responsibility, unskilled work things like stacking shelves or packing boxes. Not that there s anything wrong with those jobs, but that s what I assumed minimum wage was designed for.
What s surprised me is my own situation. I work a part-time maintenance job that requires training, safe use of chemicals, power tools, basic electrical knowledge, accurate measuring, and building to a high standard. I often use my own laptop out of hours to write reports, supply my own tools, drive vehicles (including tractors and trailers), work outdoors in all weathers, and stay physically fit. Recent tasks have included fencing and gate construction, and rebuilding and retiling a rotten bathroom floor.
All of this is paid at minimum wage. I get the same hourly rate as the non-communicative cleaner with large headphones on constantly with one responsibility of mopping the floors.
Thinking I might quite enjoy a full time job again, I ve recently applied for a full-time maintenance manager role described as a senior position overseeing a team of 3 4 people alongside maintenance work. The salary is £30k, but it requires working six days a week, including every weekend, making it effectively another minimum wage job. Colleagues regularly work extra days just to make the pay feel viable.
Maybe I m overthinking this but when did skilled, responsible, and even managerial roles become minimum wage work?
Companies like yours pay NMW because they can get away with it and where there’s people like your good self willing to do it.
valiant said:
Companies like yours pay NMW because they can get away with it and where there s people like your good self willing to do it.
Most companies pay the least amount of money they need to in order to obtain X (X being the skills/services that an employee can provide). Their primary purpose is to maximise profits and dividends. there are some altruistic employers who will look out for their employees best interests even when it costs them significantly more to do so but they tend to be in the minority.
What I have noticed/found in more recent years is that new employees are offered worse contracts compared to longer serving workers doing the same role. Yes I’d expect someone that’s been there long would get a higher wage because of being more experienced in the role but the banding of pay does not change in line with inflation/pay raises.
With the increasing of the minimum wage, yes it raises lots of people’s actual pay but it just catches up on the next lot of people that was on minimum wage +10p this increase the amount of people on minimum wages in the first place.
With the increasing of the minimum wage, yes it raises lots of people’s actual pay but it just catches up on the next lot of people that was on minimum wage +10p this increase the amount of people on minimum wages in the first place.
This is wage compression and it is devaluing knowledge, skills and experience in two ways.
1. People wonder why they bother getting an education, building up skills, etc when they end up being paid the same as someone who hasn't bothered at all.
2. When the minimum wage goes up this doesn't get reflected in the rest of the pay structure and devalues the earning power of those earning above the minimum wage.
In truth the minimum wage is great for those really at the bottom of the pile but a disaster for everyone else.
Thank Tony Blair for this one.
1. People wonder why they bother getting an education, building up skills, etc when they end up being paid the same as someone who hasn't bothered at all.
2. When the minimum wage goes up this doesn't get reflected in the rest of the pay structure and devalues the earning power of those earning above the minimum wage.
In truth the minimum wage is great for those really at the bottom of the pile but a disaster for everyone else.
Thank Tony Blair for this one.
Min wage is rising and just absorbing jobs that previously would have been higher paid than min wage. That's why you are being "surprised" by jobs that pay min wage. 10 years ago they would have been well above.
It has and will cause problems in the employment market as it's yet another instance of Govt meddling in a market that should just be supply vs demand.
TX.
It has and will cause problems in the employment market as it's yet another instance of Govt meddling in a market that should just be supply vs demand.
TX.
In my world I have 2 jobs, 1 driving a home delivery van, 1 office work, when I started my office job I was paid almost double per hour,
As said above the % payrises on low paid has been higher, averaging for me just over 5.5% over the last 8 years, my 'main' job has averaged 2.7%, I can see minimum wage catching up in the next few years so I will have to decide, easy job out and about but all weathers, or a stressful job sat in an office staring at a screen
As said above the % payrises on low paid has been higher, averaging for me just over 5.5% over the last 8 years, my 'main' job has averaged 2.7%, I can see minimum wage catching up in the next few years so I will have to decide, easy job out and about but all weathers, or a stressful job sat in an office staring at a screen
Yes certainly, I know of a few people working in the private sector doing jobs that are not unskilled at all, one of them has a degree. They are now with the latest rises due, less than a pound an hour off the nwm due to recent increases and due to business factors at their place of work there’s no rise this year which means that very likely the following year they will be pulled into the nmw. Pretty much might as well quit and go and work at McDonald’s or something with absolutely no responsibility.
I think businesses can’t keep up with the low end pay rises so those in the middle are getting less as a direct result…certainly benefits appear to pay more than most jobs nowdays. Maybe this is how the government plan to get everyone onto the universal income, squeeze the low into the middle until most people become the same.
I think businesses can’t keep up with the low end pay rises so those in the middle are getting less as a direct result…certainly benefits appear to pay more than most jobs nowdays. Maybe this is how the government plan to get everyone onto the universal income, squeeze the low into the middle until most people become the same.
vixen1700 said:
Just had to look up what the minimum wage is.
In London it's £14.80 an hour, which for a 40 hour week is £592 a week and £30,760 a year.
Isn’t that the ‘London living wage’ which is entirely voluntary for employers to pay in that there London?In London it's £14.80 an hour, which for a 40 hour week is £592 a week and £30,760 a year.
NMW is lower and mandatory.
I worked as a graphic designer for 28 years. In the last year before I sacked it off and started retraining in cloud my employer reduced everyone's weekly hours because the minimum wage had caught up and they didn't want to pay as much as they'd have to if we continued on the same hours.
The growth of the Minimum Wage is definitely having bad side-effects.
At my company we're about to do a sit-in and not go out on our deliveries if we don't get a significant pay increase. This is thanks to the minimum wage pushing up so fast that we're in danger of getting caught by it. Considering we all drive 26-32t trucks with Moffetts to building sites then move loads around difficult terrain being paid just £1 above minimum wage is no longer viable. The local Aldi warehouse is advertising for warehouse jobs and their pay starts at £13.40 with more for forklift and they get paid breaks too. Night shifts are £15+. Thankfully that's all on their big banner out the front so we can prove it to the bosses. We've worked out that for our 42.5 hour week they're on more than us by £2-3k a year.
The crunch will be when we receive our pay notification letters over Christmas, if there's not a significant change then we all just come in after the New Year and not leave the yard. Be interesting to see what they say in it as we know we've had a good year. I've only had my HGV license 4 years and knew the pay want great but when you can earn the same or more for what are considered basic jobs then why should I go through all the stress and responsibility of driving a big metal box?
At my company we're about to do a sit-in and not go out on our deliveries if we don't get a significant pay increase. This is thanks to the minimum wage pushing up so fast that we're in danger of getting caught by it. Considering we all drive 26-32t trucks with Moffetts to building sites then move loads around difficult terrain being paid just £1 above minimum wage is no longer viable. The local Aldi warehouse is advertising for warehouse jobs and their pay starts at £13.40 with more for forklift and they get paid breaks too. Night shifts are £15+. Thankfully that's all on their big banner out the front so we can prove it to the bosses. We've worked out that for our 42.5 hour week they're on more than us by £2-3k a year.
The crunch will be when we receive our pay notification letters over Christmas, if there's not a significant change then we all just come in after the New Year and not leave the yard. Be interesting to see what they say in it as we know we've had a good year. I've only had my HGV license 4 years and knew the pay want great but when you can earn the same or more for what are considered basic jobs then why should I go through all the stress and responsibility of driving a big metal box?
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