Leaving Police for Train Driving
Discussion
Someone I know well has an interesting conundrum which we have been discussing lately at length. What would you do?
She has 25 years in the police, expected to do 30 years however as a result of what's going on, decided to look elsewhere. Ends up getting through the entire train driver process and is offered a role with a suburban network. Pay would go from £65/70k a year currently to £95-100K a year (both factoring in overtime). It would also be a job for life seeing her out into old age. Had they stayed done their 30 years they would still need to go out and find work as they would not yet be 50 years old and the pension would not suffice owing to all the changes and problems that are now in place.
However - leaving the police 5 years earlier than the 30 year mark would cost her around £120k off their pension lump sum. i.e leave early and defer pension to age 50 would mean a hugely reduced lump sum. (Pension would still be takeable at age 50 in her circumstances). But that loss is versus getting out of a broken career and also buying into a solid and well paid career for life.
So should she stay in a stagnant and uncertain career for her for 5 years and take an increased pension pay out, then have to go and find work, or should she take the opportunity presented early and accept that the hit on lump sum would be counteracted by great pay, conditions and longevity in another career?
There is a wide spread of opinion in discussing it so far, so interested to hear views.
She has 25 years in the police, expected to do 30 years however as a result of what's going on, decided to look elsewhere. Ends up getting through the entire train driver process and is offered a role with a suburban network. Pay would go from £65/70k a year currently to £95-100K a year (both factoring in overtime). It would also be a job for life seeing her out into old age. Had they stayed done their 30 years they would still need to go out and find work as they would not yet be 50 years old and the pension would not suffice owing to all the changes and problems that are now in place.
However - leaving the police 5 years earlier than the 30 year mark would cost her around £120k off their pension lump sum. i.e leave early and defer pension to age 50 would mean a hugely reduced lump sum. (Pension would still be takeable at age 50 in her circumstances). But that loss is versus getting out of a broken career and also buying into a solid and well paid career for life.
So should she stay in a stagnant and uncertain career for her for 5 years and take an increased pension pay out, then have to go and find work, or should she take the opportunity presented early and accept that the hit on lump sum would be counteracted by great pay, conditions and longevity in another career?
There is a wide spread of opinion in discussing it so far, so interested to hear views.
Ubiquitous2024 said:
Someone I know well has an interesting conundrum which we have been discussing lately at length. What would you do?
She has 25 years in the police, expected to do 30 years however as a result of what's going on, decided to look elsewhere. Ends up getting through the entire train driver process and is offered a role with a suburban network. Pay would go from £65/70k a year currently to £95-100K a year (both factoring in overtime). It would also be a job for life seeing her out into old age. Had they stayed done their 30 years they would still need to go out and find work as they would not yet be 50 years old and the pension would not suffice owing to all the changes and problems that are now in place.
However - leaving the police 5 years earlier than the 30 year mark would cost her around £120k off their pension lump sum. i.e leave early and defer pension to age 50 would mean a hugely reduced lump sum. (Pension would still be takeable at age 50 in her circumstances). But that loss is versus getting out of a broken career and also buying into a solid and well paid career for life.
So should she stay in a stagnant and uncertain career for her for 5 years and take an increased pension pay out, then have to go and find work, or should she take the opportunity presented early and accept that the hit on lump sum would be counteracted by great pay, conditions and longevity in another career?
There is a wide spread of opinion in discussing it so far, so interested to hear views.
I would be inclined to take the role now and take the hit on the police pension. Given the additional income expectation, then put some of the extra into their pension to offset the loss.She has 25 years in the police, expected to do 30 years however as a result of what's going on, decided to look elsewhere. Ends up getting through the entire train driver process and is offered a role with a suburban network. Pay would go from £65/70k a year currently to £95-100K a year (both factoring in overtime). It would also be a job for life seeing her out into old age. Had they stayed done their 30 years they would still need to go out and find work as they would not yet be 50 years old and the pension would not suffice owing to all the changes and problems that are now in place.
However - leaving the police 5 years earlier than the 30 year mark would cost her around £120k off their pension lump sum. i.e leave early and defer pension to age 50 would mean a hugely reduced lump sum. (Pension would still be takeable at age 50 in her circumstances). But that loss is versus getting out of a broken career and also buying into a solid and well paid career for life.
So should she stay in a stagnant and uncertain career for her for 5 years and take an increased pension pay out, then have to go and find work, or should she take the opportunity presented early and accept that the hit on lump sum would be counteracted by great pay, conditions and longevity in another career?
There is a wide spread of opinion in discussing it so far, so interested to hear views.
Which TOC?, £95k sounds ambitious if it's not the likes of LNER.
Hard to earn over £80k at Northern. Overtime isn't a given. It's usually based on an equalisation system so no one person is significantly ahead of anyone else who also wishes to do overtime.
And can disappear for years at a time when it suits the union or the company.
Hard to earn over £80k at Northern. Overtime isn't a given. It's usually based on an equalisation system so no one person is significantly ahead of anyone else who also wishes to do overtime.
And can disappear for years at a time when it suits the union or the company.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Thursday 18th December 17:36
Don’t want to be hitting the overtime as a newbie. The railway is unforgiving and you’re asking for trouble if you’re hammering the o/t. Take a few years to get her feet well and truly under the table with just minimal o/t.
Recent case of a driver hitting the buffers at London Bridge where excessive overtime was a key factor. You really, really don’t want to be in a similar position.
Saying that, coppers tend to make good drivers and it is a pretty well worn path as they make a good fit.
Recent case of a driver hitting the buffers at London Bridge where excessive overtime was a key factor. You really, really don’t want to be in a similar position.
Saying that, coppers tend to make good drivers and it is a pretty well worn path as they make a good fit.
valiant said:
Don t want to be hitting the overtime as a newbie. The railway is unforgiving and you re asking for trouble if you re hammering the o/t. Take a few years to get her feet well and truly under the table with just minimal o/t.
Recent case of a driver hitting the buffers at London Bridge where excessive overtime was a key factor. You really, really don t want to be in a similar position.
Saying that, coppers tend to make good drivers and it is a pretty well worn path as they make a good fit.
Absolutely this - those who focus on overtime quite often come unstuck. It’s really not a good idea.Recent case of a driver hitting the buffers at London Bridge where excessive overtime was a key factor. You really, really don t want to be in a similar position.
Saying that, coppers tend to make good drivers and it is a pretty well worn path as they make a good fit.
Richard-D said:
It's not quite a 'no-brainer' to take the job now but it's pretty close.
Is it easy to leave the police in a short timescale? Leaving the military is a process that can take a couple of years for some (from the point of applying). I presume it's a lot simpler with the police.
Months notice to resign. Is it easy to leave the police in a short timescale? Leaving the military is a process that can take a couple of years for some (from the point of applying). I presume it's a lot simpler with the police.
OP there must have been a reason that she looked at leaving. Those feelings wont go away.
Im looking at doing the same swap (pension side of things doesnt even matter as ive got another 19/23 years left).
If I was jn her position id be handing my notice in and going straight away.
So early to mid 40’s, with 25 years of Police pension to preserve until ready to take it (doesn’t need to be taken at 50, likely to increase its benefits if left preserved for longer?)
New job at least equal in pay and probably better, together with a company pension scheme in a job that you could (all things being equal) do for another twenty years.
So, why wouldn’t you do it if wanting a change?
Well, drivers have very odd shifts, but then the Police aren’t exactly “9-5”, so that shouldn’t be a big issue.
However, and I speak from the perspective of incident investigation, keeping concentration at all times at any time of day is something that not everyone has the ability to do. This is tested for at entrance by the ToC that I liaised with but, rather like a driving test, it’s one thing to pass the test, another to be incident free for weeks, months, years.
TL:DR yes, just do it.
New job at least equal in pay and probably better, together with a company pension scheme in a job that you could (all things being equal) do for another twenty years.
So, why wouldn’t you do it if wanting a change?
Well, drivers have very odd shifts, but then the Police aren’t exactly “9-5”, so that shouldn’t be a big issue.
However, and I speak from the perspective of incident investigation, keeping concentration at all times at any time of day is something that not everyone has the ability to do. This is tested for at entrance by the ToC that I liaised with but, rather like a driving test, it’s one thing to pass the test, another to be incident free for weeks, months, years.
TL:DR yes, just do it.
I know over half a dozen ex-police officers who are now train drivers and not one of them would go back to their old jobs.
However, the expected salary number quoted is way too high. Realistically she will not be on much more than she is now as overtime is definitely not guaranteed. Additionally she will be on a training wage of around £30k for a year/18 months, then likely a newly qualified driver wage for another 1-3 year period depending on the train company.
Based on the salary numbers this is not a good financial decision as the only way she will make back the £120k is by being in a better role for most of her remaining working life beyond the age of 50. This is a positive as if she makes the jump she will be doing it for quality of life and not financial reasons.
However, the expected salary number quoted is way too high. Realistically she will not be on much more than she is now as overtime is definitely not guaranteed. Additionally she will be on a training wage of around £30k for a year/18 months, then likely a newly qualified driver wage for another 1-3 year period depending on the train company.
Based on the salary numbers this is not a good financial decision as the only way she will make back the £120k is by being in a better role for most of her remaining working life beyond the age of 50. This is a positive as if she makes the jump she will be doing it for quality of life and not financial reasons.
LosingGrip said:
Months notice to resign.
OP there must have been a reason that she looked at leaving. Those feelings wont go away.
Im looking at doing the same swap (pension side of things doesnt even matter as ive got another 19/23 years left).
If I was jn her position id be handing my notice in and going straight away.
Looked into it and local station is recruiting for trainee drivers. OP there must have been a reason that she looked at leaving. Those feelings wont go away.
Im looking at doing the same swap (pension side of things doesnt even matter as ive got another 19/23 years left).
If I was jn her position id be handing my notice in and going straight away.
Application submitted. First assessment passed.
Starting pay is £36k. Goes up to just under £77k.
If you re genuinely interested then some time on here will help you with what to expect.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/railway-jobs-c...
No harm in being prepared but be prepared for it to take a while. A year from initial application to signing your contract is not unheard of.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/railway-jobs-c...
No harm in being prepared but be prepared for it to take a while. A year from initial application to signing your contract is not unheard of.
Take the train job, if they aren’t happy in the police staying there just to save their pension won’t feel like a good idea a year or two down the line. If the train driving job pays as well as described, they can soon top up the pension to similar levels and over the career in the trains they can easily be better off.
I stayed in a job that I wasn’t happy doing, well it was my manager that was an utter c##t and eventually resigned. Wish I’d left sooner…
I stayed in a job that I wasn’t happy doing, well it was my manager that was an utter c##t and eventually resigned. Wish I’d left sooner…
Ex train driver here(40 years total), if you take the job now you realistically have a good few years to make up the difference. The £95k figure will be after you have done about 4 years. I worked for XC Trains and retired in 2017, the salary then was just over £60k without OT. Shifts, crap! But probably nothing unusual to an ex police officer, at least you know that most days you'll be going home at the time the diagram says, nobody will spit at you,try to stab you or generally beat the s**t out of you and no one is going to canel your holiday at the last moment . There are promotion prospects, mostly towards driver managing, plus once you've gained experience you could become a drive mentor or instructor. I would take it, it won't happen again.
Techno9000 said:
So early to mid 40 s, with 25 years of Police pension to preserve until ready to take it (doesn t need to be taken at 50, likely to increase its benefits if left preserved for longer?)
New job at least equal in pay and probably better, together with a company pension scheme in a job that you could (all things being equal) do for another twenty years.
So, why wouldn t you do it if wanting a change?
Well, drivers have very odd shifts, but then the Police aren t exactly 9-5 , so that shouldn t be a big issue.
However, and I speak from the perspective of incident investigation, keeping concentration at all times at any time of day is something that not everyone has the ability to do. This is tested for at entrance by the ToC that I liaised with but, rather like a driving test, it s one thing to pass the test, another to be incident free for weeks, months, years.
TL:DR yes, just do it.
I'd knock the weeks and months bit off. New job at least equal in pay and probably better, together with a company pension scheme in a job that you could (all things being equal) do for another twenty years.
So, why wouldn t you do it if wanting a change?
Well, drivers have very odd shifts, but then the Police aren t exactly 9-5 , so that shouldn t be a big issue.
However, and I speak from the perspective of incident investigation, keeping concentration at all times at any time of day is something that not everyone has the ability to do. This is tested for at entrance by the ToC that I liaised with but, rather like a driving test, it s one thing to pass the test, another to be incident free for weeks, months, years.
TL:DR yes, just do it.
The starting point is incident free for years. Anyone thinking they've done well being incident free for months is a terrible train driver.
ChocolateFrog said:
Which TOC?, £95k sounds ambitious if it's not the likes of LNER.
Hard to earn over £80k at Northern. Overtime isn't a given. It's usually based on an equalisation system so no one person is significantly ahead of anyone else who also wishes to do overtime.
And can disappear for years at a time when it suits the union or the company.
One of the southern ones as far as I know. In interview she was told one of her challenges would be not breaching the 100k tax threshold for overtime as the depot has some London weighting attached and apparently OT is quite abundantly available.Hard to earn over £80k at Northern. Overtime isn't a given. It's usually based on an equalisation system so no one person is significantly ahead of anyone else who also wishes to do overtime.
And can disappear for years at a time when it suits the union or the company.
Edited by ChocolateFrog on Thursday 18th December 17:36
Ashfordian said:
I know over half a dozen ex-police officers who are now train drivers and not one of them would go back to their old jobs.
However, the expected salary number quoted is way too high. Realistically she will not be on much more than she is now as overtime is definitely not guaranteed. Additionally she will be on a training wage of around £30k for a year/18 months, then likely a newly qualified driver wage for another 1-3 year period depending on the train company.
Based on the salary numbers this is not a good financial decision as the only way she will make back the £120k is by being in a better role for most of her remaining working life beyond the age of 50. This is a positive as if she makes the jump she will be doing it for quality of life and not financial reasons.
The training wage quoted was 39k during training, 50k after around 5 months again during training, with a rise to 83k standard (2k London weighting included) once she gets her drivers key so around 16 to 18 months. The additional on top of that would be overtime however yes, she understands that this isn't a "given" - but the drivers she has got to know as part of the process all say OT is available and will pay well.However, the expected salary number quoted is way too high. Realistically she will not be on much more than she is now as overtime is definitely not guaranteed. Additionally she will be on a training wage of around £30k for a year/18 months, then likely a newly qualified driver wage for another 1-3 year period depending on the train company.
Based on the salary numbers this is not a good financial decision as the only way she will make back the £120k is by being in a better role for most of her remaining working life beyond the age of 50. This is a positive as if she makes the jump she will be doing it for quality of life and not financial reasons.
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