Energy Companies - attempted rip-offs
Discussion
Getting on for a couple of years ago, I realised my energy company (known as one of the better ones) was holding around £600 of my money due to overpaid direct debits. Obviously completely my own fault for not monitoring better, but I reclaimed the money and reduced my DD to what I thought was quite a low level of £200 per month.
Three times since then I have had e mails explaining that they were going to increase the DD amount, despite (at least in my opinion) the account running quite nicely, sometimes with a moderate debt and sometimes a moderate credit. So I ring them up each time and they agree to keep it as it is.
The last time they tried this - a couple of months ago - they were going to increase to £260 - so a 30% increase. I will finish this year about £40 in credit. So there can be no justification for such an increase whatsoever, and the suggested increases cannot be based on any sort of account monitoring (bear in mind that the £200 per month has now been going for nearly two years).
The only explanation is that part of their business model is generating income from excess payments by trying to con customers. Surely not ethical practice?
Has anyone else experienced this?
Three times since then I have had e mails explaining that they were going to increase the DD amount, despite (at least in my opinion) the account running quite nicely, sometimes with a moderate debt and sometimes a moderate credit. So I ring them up each time and they agree to keep it as it is.
The last time they tried this - a couple of months ago - they were going to increase to £260 - so a 30% increase. I will finish this year about £40 in credit. So there can be no justification for such an increase whatsoever, and the suggested increases cannot be based on any sort of account monitoring (bear in mind that the £200 per month has now been going for nearly two years).
The only explanation is that part of their business model is generating income from excess payments by trying to con customers. Surely not ethical practice?
Has anyone else experienced this?
Foss62 said:
Getting on for a couple of years ago, I realised my energy company (known as one of the better ones) was holding around £600 of my money due to overpaid direct debits. Obviously completely my own fault for not monitoring better, but I reclaimed the money and reduced my DD to what I thought was quite a low level of £200 per month.
Three times since then I have had e mails explaining that they were going to increase the DD amount, despite (at least in my opinion) the account running quite nicely, sometimes with a moderate debt and sometimes a moderate credit. So I ring them up each time and they agree to keep it as it is.
The last time they tried this - a couple of months ago - they were going to increase to £260 - so a 30% increase. I will finish this year about £40 in credit. So there can be no justification for such an increase whatsoever, and the suggested increases cannot be based on any sort of account monitoring (bear in mind that the £200 per month has now been going for nearly two years).
The only explanation is that part of their business model is generating income from excess payments by trying to con customers. Surely not ethical practice?
Has anyone else experienced this?
They are a business so aren't keeping your best interests first and foremost.Three times since then I have had e mails explaining that they were going to increase the DD amount, despite (at least in my opinion) the account running quite nicely, sometimes with a moderate debt and sometimes a moderate credit. So I ring them up each time and they agree to keep it as it is.
The last time they tried this - a couple of months ago - they were going to increase to £260 - so a 30% increase. I will finish this year about £40 in credit. So there can be no justification for such an increase whatsoever, and the suggested increases cannot be based on any sort of account monitoring (bear in mind that the £200 per month has now been going for nearly two years).
The only explanation is that part of their business model is generating income from excess payments by trying to con customers. Surely not ethical practice?
Has anyone else experienced this?
Unfortunately this seems to be the way they ensure your bill gets paid in full over the year. If you don't like it then plug the hole in your bank account and pay the bill in full every month, that way you won't build up an excess balance. Downside is the bill shock you get in the winter.
I lunch regularly each month with 5 other guys, all retired. A couple of years back we spent lunch discussing (complaining) about our experiences with energy companies and direct debits, for the identical reason set out in your post. Needless to say, we all cancelled our DDs. We all experienced some resistance, like you, but the companies got over it and now we all pay quarterly after a submitting meter reading.
R.
R.
Foss62 said:
Getting on for a couple of years ago, I realised my energy company (known as one of the better ones) was holding around £600 of my money due to overpaid direct debits. Obviously completely my own fault for not monitoring better, but I reclaimed the money and reduced my DD to what I thought was quite a low level of £200 per month.
Three times since then I have had e mails explaining that they were going to increase the DD amount, despite (at least in my opinion) the account running quite nicely, sometimes with a moderate debt and sometimes a moderate credit. So I ring them up each time and they agree to keep it as it is.
The last time they tried this - a couple of months ago - they were going to increase to £260 - so a 30% increase. I will finish this year about £40 in credit. So there can be no justification for such an increase whatsoever, and the suggested increases cannot be based on any sort of account monitoring (bear in mind that the £200 per month has now been going for nearly two years).
The only explanation is that part of their business model is generating income from excess payments by trying to con customers. Surely not ethical practice?
Has anyone else experienced this?
It's not a rip off or scam, if you understand why it works like this.Three times since then I have had e mails explaining that they were going to increase the DD amount, despite (at least in my opinion) the account running quite nicely, sometimes with a moderate debt and sometimes a moderate credit. So I ring them up each time and they agree to keep it as it is.
The last time they tried this - a couple of months ago - they were going to increase to £260 - so a 30% increase. I will finish this year about £40 in credit. So there can be no justification for such an increase whatsoever, and the suggested increases cannot be based on any sort of account monitoring (bear in mind that the £200 per month has now been going for nearly two years).
The only explanation is that part of their business model is generating income from excess payments by trying to con customers. Surely not ethical practice?
Has anyone else experienced this?
We are now in the winter period, where heating & extra electricity use is going to be a large cost for the next 2 - 3 months.
The system is designed to build up a credit balance during the warmer months of the year, so that the higher bills over winter are covered and spread across the whole year.
Some people prefer to make regular monthly payments of the same amount, which also cover the higher winter bills, so that they do not have lumpy bills arriving in January & February. Because some people are unable to budget for themselves, this system essentially does it for them.
There are other people, like yourself, who don't want to make use of this system, therefore, you are free to make variable payments throughout the year, with lower payments in the warmer months & higher payments in the colder months.
Mandat said:
It's not a rip off or scam, if you understand why it works like this.
We are now in the winter period, where heating & extra electricity use is going to be a large cost for the next 2 - 3 months.
The system is designed to build up a credit balance during the warmer months of the year, so that the higher bills over winter are covered and spread across the whole year.
Some people prefer to make regular monthly payments of the same amount, which also cover the higher winter bills, so that they do not have lumpy bills arriving in January & February. Because some people are unable to budget for themselves, this system essentially does it for them.
There are other people, like yourself, who don't want to make use of this system, therefore, you are free to make variable payments throughout the year, with lower payments in the warmer months & higher payments in the colder months.
I think you miss OP's point - he appears quite happy to pay regularly and has been doing so, he's endeding the year with £40 credit, but his supplier wants to increase the payments by 30%, which would appear to be excessive - assuming there are no circumstances OP has negated to mention.We are now in the winter period, where heating & extra electricity use is going to be a large cost for the next 2 - 3 months.
The system is designed to build up a credit balance during the warmer months of the year, so that the higher bills over winter are covered and spread across the whole year.
Some people prefer to make regular monthly payments of the same amount, which also cover the higher winter bills, so that they do not have lumpy bills arriving in January & February. Because some people are unable to budget for themselves, this system essentially does it for them.
There are other people, like yourself, who don't want to make use of this system, therefore, you are free to make variable payments throughout the year, with lower payments in the warmer months & higher payments in the colder months.
From similar conversations I've had, the commonly held opinion appears to be that energy companies overcharge so they can sit on your cash to help the books look better.
Foss62 said:
Getting on for a couple of years ago, I realised my energy company (known as one of the better ones) was holding around £600 of my money due to overpaid direct debits. Obviously completely my own fault for not monitoring better, but I reclaimed the money and reduced my DD to what I thought was quite a low level of £200 per month.
Three times since then I have had e mails explaining that they were going to increase the DD amount, despite (at least in my opinion) the account running quite nicely, sometimes with a moderate debt and sometimes a moderate credit. So I ring them up each time and they agree to keep it as it is.
The last time they tried this - a couple of months ago - they were going to increase to £260 - so a 30% increase. I will finish this year about £40 in credit. So there can be no justification for such an increase whatsoever, and the suggested increases cannot be based on any sort of account monitoring (bear in mind that the £200 per month has now been going for nearly two years).
The only explanation is that part of their business model is generating income from excess payments by trying to con customers. Surely not ethical practice?
Has anyone else experienced this?
Of course. They do it because they can, and they hope you don't notice or CBA to change it. The only reason can be because as Crafty says it makes their books look better.Three times since then I have had e mails explaining that they were going to increase the DD amount, despite (at least in my opinion) the account running quite nicely, sometimes with a moderate debt and sometimes a moderate credit. So I ring them up each time and they agree to keep it as it is.
The last time they tried this - a couple of months ago - they were going to increase to £260 - so a 30% increase. I will finish this year about £40 in credit. So there can be no justification for such an increase whatsoever, and the suggested increases cannot be based on any sort of account monitoring (bear in mind that the £200 per month has now been going for nearly two years).
The only explanation is that part of their business model is generating income from excess payments by trying to con customers. Surely not ethical practice?
Has anyone else experienced this?
I'm with Octopus and it's very easy to log in and change the DD to whatever you want. As I had a chunk in credit I reduced my DD to zero to let things catch up and to my surprise the system accepted it.
Another example is the AA who try to triple your premiums every year so you have to ring up and get them back down again.
Next month I have Plusnet wanting to charge me a ridiculous amount for broadband - unless I renew my contract of course in which case it halves. Part of me wants to shop around, but I like the ability to phone a person, and I'm quite sure that if I changed provider my service would go tits up for a month.
Foss62 said:
I will finish this year about £40 in credit. ?
Surely you're next bill will immediately put you into debit? So they'll be straight back again wanting to increase the DD.To be honest I'm happy to let it average out - our winter bills are 3x the summer ones - so it all comes out in the wash.
Sheepshanks said:
Foss62 said:
I will finish this year about £40 in credit. ?
Surely you're next bill will immediately put you into debit? So they'll be straight back again wanting to increase the DD.To be honest I'm happy to let it average out - our winter bills are 3x the summer ones - so it all comes out in the wash.
The expectation, with no major price increases would be that I’ll be in more or less the same position this time next year. The whole point of the arrangement is to even the payments out over a period.
It ‘comes out in the wash’ for me as well. I don’t want to reduce my payments in the summer - I just expect the company to properly monitor my account and to not ask for more than is required for their own supposed preferred system to work.
Foss62 said:
You are missing the point that I have been paying the same monthly amount quite happily for nearly two years and are finishing the current year in credit.
The expectation, with no major price increases would be that I ll be in more or less the same position this time next year. The whole point of the arrangement is to even the payments out over a period.
It comes out in the wash for me as well. I don t want to reduce my payments in the summer - I just expect the company to properly monitor my account and to not ask for more than is required for their own supposed preferred system to work.
No, I get that. How have they reacted when you've been in debit before? If they'll cheerfully wait for the balance to catch itself up, then fair enough. I'd expect them to keep increasing the DD though, so you're just continually going to be battling them.The expectation, with no major price increases would be that I ll be in more or less the same position this time next year. The whole point of the arrangement is to even the payments out over a period.
It comes out in the wash for me as well. I don t want to reduce my payments in the summer - I just expect the company to properly monitor my account and to not ask for more than is required for their own supposed preferred system to work.
Mandat said:
It's not a rip off or scam, if you understand why it works like this.
We are now in the winter period, where heating & extra electricity use is going to be a large cost for the next 2 - 3 months.
The system is designed to build up a credit balance during the warmer months of the year, so that the higher bills over winter are covered and spread across the whole year.
Some people prefer to make regular monthly payments of the same amount, which also cover the higher winter bills, so that they do not have lumpy bills arriving in January & February. Because some people are unable to budget for themselves, this system essentially does it for them.
There are other people, like yourself, who don't want to make use of this system, therefore, you are free to make variable payments throughout the year, with lower payments in the warmer months & higher payments in the colder months.
if the system is designed as you suggest why did the OP end up with £600 in credit? Its seems you haven't read and understood their postWe are now in the winter period, where heating & extra electricity use is going to be a large cost for the next 2 - 3 months.
The system is designed to build up a credit balance during the warmer months of the year, so that the higher bills over winter are covered and spread across the whole year.
Some people prefer to make regular monthly payments of the same amount, which also cover the higher winter bills, so that they do not have lumpy bills arriving in January & February. Because some people are unable to budget for themselves, this system essentially does it for them.
There are other people, like yourself, who don't want to make use of this system, therefore, you are free to make variable payments throughout the year, with lower payments in the warmer months & higher payments in the colder months.
Annoyingly EDF wanted to reduce my direct debit. I was pretty sure I’d be burning through a lot of credit this winter, but they keep knocking it down because I’m too much in credit.
I like being in credit at this point - it means I don’t have to think about whether to have the heating on or not. It’s all going to be easily covered by my DD and balance.
I like being in credit at this point - it means I don’t have to think about whether to have the heating on or not. It’s all going to be easily covered by my DD and balance.
Scottish Power have been very good in this respect.
Every month they give me a statement of usage and cost and advise me on how much each month they recommend I pay based on a zero balance at the end of my financial year.
I always try to keep a positive balance and on quite a few occasions they have advised me to reduce my monthly DD and have even reduced the amount they have taken monthly and advised me of this.
Every month they give me a statement of usage and cost and advise me on how much each month they recommend I pay based on a zero balance at the end of my financial year.
I always try to keep a positive balance and on quite a few occasions they have advised me to reduce my monthly DD and have even reduced the amount they have taken monthly and advised me of this.
Sheepshanks said:
No, I get that. How have they reacted when you've been in debit before? If they'll cheerfully wait for the balance to catch itself up, then fair enough. I'd expect them to keep increasing the DD though, so you're just continually going to be battling them.
Yes - fair point. I’ll wait and see. However the three times they have tried this so far seemed to not correlate to the state of the account in any way - hence my thoughts that it is just a try-on.cliffords said:
Ovo tell me that changing to variable monthly DD or quarterly billing will increase the unit price for gas and electricity.
Of course, because they lose the cashflow.And to think that when I first owned a house the utilities were paid quarterly in arrears... none of this 'log in to manage your account then spend weeks arguing about the amount' crap. Didn't even need an internet.
Sport_Turismo_GTS said:
Aren t bills going up next year - increase in cap, inflation etc?
It’s likely to average something under 5% in total though. If they had come to me with the proposition that the DD be upped by £10 a month then I probably would have said fair enough, although catching up £120 over the next year wouldn’t have been any great issue anyway.It’s the seemingly random request for an extra £60 a month (and the previous ones were similar) - ie 30% increase that I’m not happy about.
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