12C longer term values
Discussion
Hi all
Forgive the crystal ball type request post.
I’ve adored these since they were new and I’m now in a position to buy one (although I’ve not driven one yet). I have a 911 and a few other cars, so I’m envisaging maybe 3k miles a year tops. I’m not looking at buying a garage Queen, but I also have one eye on longer term values. I am also looking at 650s but I do prefer the clean lines of the 12c.
Very much looks like currently £75-80k buys a very fine example. And they seem to have been a this level for a few years now. Am I right in thinking these will either hold their value or maybe increase a little in the next 5 years, rather than slide any more?
TIA.
Forgive the crystal ball type request post.
I’ve adored these since they were new and I’m now in a position to buy one (although I’ve not driven one yet). I have a 911 and a few other cars, so I’m envisaging maybe 3k miles a year tops. I’m not looking at buying a garage Queen, but I also have one eye on longer term values. I am also looking at 650s but I do prefer the clean lines of the 12c.
Very much looks like currently £75-80k buys a very fine example. And they seem to have been a this level for a few years now. Am I right in thinking these will either hold their value or maybe increase a little in the next 5 years, rather than slide any more?
TIA.
I agree with your hypothesis, I think the 12C has stabilised and my best bet for values for a decently well-kept example in 5 years would be the same as today.
The price 'floor' seems to be £60k as it was three years ago or so, with the 'centre of gravity' being £75k now, which again I think has been stable for a few years.
+ they're over 10 years old now which is usually the transition from depreciation to fairly constant values (20 years old being the transition from constant to possible appreciation).
+ there are now more specialists who can look after them
+ they're a clear step above anything else you can buy for <£100k, as evo found comparing a 650S to an R8, Gallardo and 430.
Personally going purely by the reviews I'd want a 650S, given how enthusiastic eg Chris Harris was about how improved it was over the 12C, and also that they may have addressed a few weak points, for all that the looks are a bit 'one song to the tune of another'.
The price 'floor' seems to be £60k as it was three years ago or so, with the 'centre of gravity' being £75k now, which again I think has been stable for a few years.
+ they're over 10 years old now which is usually the transition from depreciation to fairly constant values (20 years old being the transition from constant to possible appreciation).
+ there are now more specialists who can look after them
+ they're a clear step above anything else you can buy for <£100k, as evo found comparing a 650S to an R8, Gallardo and 430.
Personally going purely by the reviews I'd want a 650S, given how enthusiastic eg Chris Harris was about how improved it was over the 12C, and also that they may have addressed a few weak points, for all that the looks are a bit 'one song to the tune of another'.
Who knows where they will go - it has been done loads of times on here.
here's a thread started a decaade (and 2 days) ago on the same thing, when they were about £90k.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Since then they dipped and have recovered slightly but let's face it, anyone who has run a supercar for 10 years and only lost a grand a year in depreciation has done pretty well. Personally I think the "original and best" hype is overdone, the 650 is by all accounts a better car and is probably more desirable.
The 12C IMO will hold value, perhaps improve slightly, and people after a 'cheap' McL now have the Sports Series to choose from so that I think will flatten demand slightly.
But what do I know - I spent £30k on a Maserati Gransport instead of £20k on a Honda NSX.
here's a thread started a decaade (and 2 days) ago on the same thing, when they were about £90k.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Since then they dipped and have recovered slightly but let's face it, anyone who has run a supercar for 10 years and only lost a grand a year in depreciation has done pretty well. Personally I think the "original and best" hype is overdone, the 650 is by all accounts a better car and is probably more desirable.
The 12C IMO will hold value, perhaps improve slightly, and people after a 'cheap' McL now have the Sports Series to choose from so that I think will flatten demand slightly.
But what do I know - I spent £30k on a Maserati Gransport instead of £20k on a Honda NSX.
Obviously there is no way to tell, but I really can't see them dropping much further. As a value proposition the 12C/650 is way above anything else in the class already, and prices have been pretty stable for a long time. Values will change, they always do, but I doubt they will go up or down by a great deal.
Re the 650 vs 12C, I tried both when I was shopping a while ago. The looks are entirely subjective of course, but personally I found the 650 to be just that little bit better across the board and decided it was worth the extra. All you can do is try both and see how you feel.
Re the 650 vs 12C, I tried both when I was shopping a while ago. The looks are entirely subjective of course, but personally I found the 650 to be just that little bit better across the board and decided it was worth the extra. All you can do is try both and see how you feel.
To the OP, keep in mind that wherever values go, servicing and parts are still based on the original price. Though both are improving through innovations from the independents (accumulators, front springs, e.g.,now have alternate strategies)
I too prefer the looks of the 12C, but couldn’t gel with the floaty rebound which was fixed by the higher spring rates on the 650s - which I purchased. And plan to keep - so don’t care about residuals.
I too prefer the looks of the 12C, but couldn’t gel with the floaty rebound which was fixed by the higher spring rates on the 650s - which I purchased. And plan to keep - so don’t care about residuals.
OP, I came to McLaren from the same background of 911's
I was blown away with the composure of these early McLarens, and I suspect you will be very impressed.
Regards residuals, who knows, market demand can be funny, but supply is fixed at about 200 RHD 12C's and maybe 40 RHD 650s Coupes. In other words, pretty limited supply. There are good ones and cheap ones, but that is the UK population, less any write offs.
The 12C is the looker for me, and has the ultimate suspension spring rates, all the P11 cars that followed increased spring rates (for me) to the detriment of fast road handling on the type of roads we have.
So, Initially I opted for 12C out of the 12C / 650 decision. But then later came back and got a 650S. Passengers marvel at the 12C ride when we do a 500 mile trip, but if I went to a track day, then by a small margin the 650 would be the tool for the job (better engine cooling / resistance to sustained high boost).
Good luck!
I was blown away with the composure of these early McLarens, and I suspect you will be very impressed.
Regards residuals, who knows, market demand can be funny, but supply is fixed at about 200 RHD 12C's and maybe 40 RHD 650s Coupes. In other words, pretty limited supply. There are good ones and cheap ones, but that is the UK population, less any write offs.
The 12C is the looker for me, and has the ultimate suspension spring rates, all the P11 cars that followed increased spring rates (for me) to the detriment of fast road handling on the type of roads we have.
So, Initially I opted for 12C out of the 12C / 650 decision. But then later came back and got a 650S. Passengers marvel at the 12C ride when we do a 500 mile trip, but if I went to a track day, then by a small margin the 650 would be the tool for the job (better engine cooling / resistance to sustained high boost).
Good luck!
I bought my 12C 10 years ago exactly (25th Jan 2016). It was £115k with 4k miles. They were mostly about that price, I can't remember any as low as £90k? I looked at several at the time. I still have some ad's copied, there was a VO one at Ascot with 22k miles for £112,450, that I initially had a deposit on.
The BoE inflation calculator tells me that £115k in Jan 2016 would be the equivalent of £160k now. So in real terms if you can get a 12C for £80k now, they are half of what they were a decade ago.
So you you will lose money but then a new Golf GTi lease will set you back £500pm (minimum) Thats £60k over 10 years. And you won't get anything back! With the 12C you should at least get your money back (even if the monetary value has decreased with inflation).
However you will have 10 amazing years to remember, you can't put a price on memories.
And I agree, the 12C looks better than the 650s, but I can't deny the 650s is 'mostly' better to drive and own. But thats not how most of us buy cars, we buy the one we want, not the one we don't want.
What I find most strange is how people can't value their cars as fun, like a holiday. People have no issue spending £5k / £10k / £15k on a holiday every year. They don't expect the money back, its been enjoyed. But with a car that gives similar (possibly even more) fun, memories and good times they expect it to be free, or cost nothing or moan when it devalues. They mostly attribute no value to the joy and happiness it has provided.
The BoE inflation calculator tells me that £115k in Jan 2016 would be the equivalent of £160k now. So in real terms if you can get a 12C for £80k now, they are half of what they were a decade ago.
So you you will lose money but then a new Golf GTi lease will set you back £500pm (minimum) Thats £60k over 10 years. And you won't get anything back! With the 12C you should at least get your money back (even if the monetary value has decreased with inflation).
However you will have 10 amazing years to remember, you can't put a price on memories.
And I agree, the 12C looks better than the 650s, but I can't deny the 650s is 'mostly' better to drive and own. But thats not how most of us buy cars, we buy the one we want, not the one we don't want.
What I find most strange is how people can't value their cars as fun, like a holiday. People have no issue spending £5k / £10k / £15k on a holiday every year. They don't expect the money back, its been enjoyed. But with a car that gives similar (possibly even more) fun, memories and good times they expect it to be free, or cost nothing or moan when it devalues. They mostly attribute no value to the joy and happiness it has provided.
Bispal said:
I bought my 12C 10 years ago exactly (25th Jan 2016). It was £115k with 4k miles. They were mostly about that price, I can't remember any as low as £90k? I looked at several at the time. I still have some ad's copied, there was a VO one at Ascot with 22k miles for £112,450, that I initially had a deposit on.
The BoE inflation calculator tells me that £115k in Jan 2016 would be the equivalent of £160k now. So in real terms if you can get a 12C for £80k now, they are half of what they were a decade ago.
So you you will lose money but then a new Golf GTi lease will set you back £500pm (minimum) Thats £60k over 10 years. And you won't get anything back! With the 12C you should at least get your money back (even if the monetary value has decreased with inflation).
However you will have 10 amazing years to remember, you can't put a price on memories.
And I agree, the 12C looks better than the 650s, but I can't deny the 650s is 'mostly' better to drive and own. But thats not how most of us buy cars, we buy the one we want, not the one we don't want.
What I find most strange is how people can't value their cars as fun, like a holiday. People have no issue spending £5k / £10k / £15k on a holiday every year. They don't expect the money back, its been enjoyed. But with a car that gives similar (possibly even more) fun, memories and good times they expect it to be free, or cost nothing or moan when it devalues. They mostly attribute no value to the joy and happiness it has provided.
Excellent summary of value / residuals and fun including foresight and hindsight. The BoE inflation calculator tells me that £115k in Jan 2016 would be the equivalent of £160k now. So in real terms if you can get a 12C for £80k now, they are half of what they were a decade ago.
So you you will lose money but then a new Golf GTi lease will set you back £500pm (minimum) Thats £60k over 10 years. And you won't get anything back! With the 12C you should at least get your money back (even if the monetary value has decreased with inflation).
However you will have 10 amazing years to remember, you can't put a price on memories.
And I agree, the 12C looks better than the 650s, but I can't deny the 650s is 'mostly' better to drive and own. But thats not how most of us buy cars, we buy the one we want, not the one we don't want.
What I find most strange is how people can't value their cars as fun, like a holiday. People have no issue spending £5k / £10k / £15k on a holiday every year. They don't expect the money back, its been enjoyed. But with a car that gives similar (possibly even more) fun, memories and good times they expect it to be free, or cost nothing or moan when it devalues. They mostly attribute no value to the joy and happiness it has provided.
Bispal said:
What I find most strange is how people can't value their cars as fun, like a holiday. People have no issue spending £5k / £10k / £15k on a holiday every year. They don't expect the money back, its been enjoyed. But with a car that gives similar (possibly even more) fun, memories and good times they expect it to be free, or cost nothing or moan when it devalues. They mostly attribute no value to the joy and happiness it has provided.
Funnily enough I am the opposite. I really find it hard spending money on holidays as i feel the money is "gone", whereas when i spend it on a car it feels like I am buying something more tangible. Which is probably why my current car cost more to buy than all the holidays I have ever paid for put together.ajm_ph said:
Funnily enough I am the opposite. I really find it hard spending money on holidays as i feel the money is "gone", whereas when i spend it on a car it feels like I am buying something more tangible. Which is probably why my current car cost more to buy than all the holidays I have ever paid for put together.
I'm the same. I have no interest in holidays and never have it's just dead money to me. There is nearly always a return on something you can touch be it a car or something else even if it is still less than the paid price. Just gets ploughed into the next thing!I will have had my 12C coupe four years next month. I could, just about, sell it for what I paid for it. Of course, inflation will have eroded the actual value.
Bills have averaged £2k a year but that included dealing with paint corrosion and accumulators that needed doing when I bought the car. I use V Engineering but Thorney is likely just as good.
So, overall, probably cheaper to own than any new Ford.
Looking towards, I don’t see there being any appreciation in value. But maybe depreciation is over.
I’ll likely upgrade to a spider at some point but, otherwise, very satisfied with the McLaren experience.
Buy carefully with an inspection and ignore the scare stories. Personally, I’d choose a car that hasn’t sat for years as a garage Queen. These cars can take mileages. Mine now 62k.
Bills have averaged £2k a year but that included dealing with paint corrosion and accumulators that needed doing when I bought the car. I use V Engineering but Thorney is likely just as good.
So, overall, probably cheaper to own than any new Ford.
Looking towards, I don’t see there being any appreciation in value. But maybe depreciation is over.
I’ll likely upgrade to a spider at some point but, otherwise, very satisfied with the McLaren experience.
Buy carefully with an inspection and ignore the scare stories. Personally, I’d choose a car that hasn’t sat for years as a garage Queen. These cars can take mileages. Mine now 62k.
I looked for nearly two years for the right car. Actually bought a 650S Coupe but it didn't pass inspection so managed to get out of that deal.
In my case I definitely prefer the looks and increased ground clearance of the 12C (though the car I eventually bought is a later one with lift)
Harry's first video convinced me it had to be a Spider.
Eventually found exactly what I was looking for, a very low miles 12C Spider with annual servicing by McLaren and under McLaren warranty since new.
Had it inspected twice, clean bill of health. V Engineering since purchase who are the best in the business.
I think it has gone up by £10k since I bought it over a year ago but I did get it for a very good price. My understanding is that only 45-50 RHD 12C Spiders are on the road.
I have no intention of selling it at all. It is by far the best car I have ever owned despite every 911 variant including some very rare ones and many many Ferraris. It is just epic.
In my case I definitely prefer the looks and increased ground clearance of the 12C (though the car I eventually bought is a later one with lift)
Harry's first video convinced me it had to be a Spider.
Eventually found exactly what I was looking for, a very low miles 12C Spider with annual servicing by McLaren and under McLaren warranty since new.
Had it inspected twice, clean bill of health. V Engineering since purchase who are the best in the business.
I think it has gone up by £10k since I bought it over a year ago but I did get it for a very good price. My understanding is that only 45-50 RHD 12C Spiders are on the road.
I have no intention of selling it at all. It is by far the best car I have ever owned despite every 911 variant including some very rare ones and many many Ferraris. It is just epic.
Trouble with modern sports cars is that they are very complex, with many expensive components, that will eventually go wrong.
So the cost of keeping them on the road will be material relative to the value of the car.
I have long thought therefore that many of those made in significant numbers will end up at low, or very low, prices.
Older sports cars are much simpler and made in lower numbers, so they may end up at higher prices.
I have both, so no particular dog in the fight.
So the cost of keeping them on the road will be material relative to the value of the car.
I have long thought therefore that many of those made in significant numbers will end up at low, or very low, prices.
Older sports cars are much simpler and made in lower numbers, so they may end up at higher prices.
I have both, so no particular dog in the fight.
That's why and how the more recent McLaren indies have helped to recover the value of the early McLaren cars plus now the sports series cars ... Thorney and V Engineering are two ... even having their own superior replacement components such as rechargeable accumulators in the super series suspension and springs to inexpensively replace the broken "real thing" in the other cars ....
Ferruccio said:
Trouble with modern sports cars is that they are very complex, with many expensive components, that will eventually go wrong.
So the cost of keeping them on the road will be material relative to the value of the car.
I have long thought therefore that many of those made in significant numbers will end up at low, or very low, prices.
Older sports cars are much simpler and made in lower numbers, so they may end up at higher prices.
I have both, so no particular dog in the fight.
There is some logic in that. I'm reasonably happy running an old 650S, the failure points are all pretty well known by now and the good independents know how to look after them. I keep thinking about what to get next and the Artura should really be on my radar as they are apparently brilliant, but the thought of running a McLaren hybrid when it gets to 10+ years old scares the life out of me.So the cost of keeping them on the road will be material relative to the value of the car.
I have long thought therefore that many of those made in significant numbers will end up at low, or very low, prices.
Older sports cars are much simpler and made in lower numbers, so they may end up at higher prices.
I have both, so no particular dog in the fight.
You'll be counting maintenance, warranty and fuel bills much more than you will need to worry about depreciation at this point with the 12C in my opinion. While it still packs mega performance and smiles it is the running costs that have caused the models values to drop where they are. But has more and more of these cars are purchased by the Max Power brigade (sorry fellas) I'd imagine that there will always be solid demand for 12C that are well maintained and in unfettered condition.
I owned one and enjoyed it, but mine was one of the unfortunately examples that spent a lot of time going nowhere in a workshop awaiting diagnosis and replacement parts. And a big bill awaiting me when I eventually picked up the car from being fixed.
If you live close to one of the good indies, you can find a good one and you can afford the maintenance costs then I'd say go for it. I really adored the driving position and clean clutter free cockpit: 100% driver focused. So McLaren.
I owned one and enjoyed it, but mine was one of the unfortunately examples that spent a lot of time going nowhere in a workshop awaiting diagnosis and replacement parts. And a big bill awaiting me when I eventually picked up the car from being fixed.
If you live close to one of the good indies, you can find a good one and you can afford the maintenance costs then I'd say go for it. I really adored the driving position and clean clutter free cockpit: 100% driver focused. So McLaren.
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