Alpine a390 vs Ionic 5n
Discussion
I appreciate the Alpine a390 isn’t available yet and will be released in Q1 or Q2 this year but a few reviews are available online.
What are your thoughts on both these cars?
Which would you rather have a daily driver assuming you have access to other ICE vehicles for when they are needed.
Any strong reason to select one over the other?
Who has the better, more intuitive infotainment system? (Presumably the a390 will be using the same tech/software as the a290 or other Renaults?)
What is the quality of the interior on Alpine like? Alpine are branding and pricing themselves against a Macan so is the interior comparable to Porsche?
What are your thoughts on both these cars?
Which would you rather have a daily driver assuming you have access to other ICE vehicles for when they are needed.
Any strong reason to select one over the other?
Who has the better, more intuitive infotainment system? (Presumably the a390 will be using the same tech/software as the a290 or other Renaults?)
What is the quality of the interior on Alpine like? Alpine are branding and pricing themselves against a Macan so is the interior comparable to Porsche?
Based on early reviews and walkarounds I would be more interested in the A390 as a daily drive. It’s a bit lighter and more compact and the interior looks more upmarket. Devialet sound system is likely to be impressive too, based on their home audio. Reviews speak highly of its ride quality and handling, which seems more UK road friendly than the more track focused i5N.
But I’m not impressed with the Alpine’s Euro NCAP rating. For me that’s an instant red card. It scored poorly on occupant crash safety,
But I’m not impressed with the Alpine’s Euro NCAP rating. For me that’s an instant red card. It scored poorly on occupant crash safety,
I think you'd have to really want one as objectively they're a worse car than the I5N, Tesla Model Y Performance and upcoming IX3 from BMW - despite the upbadged Renault (which is itself a Nissan Ariya?) being a more expensive proposition.
I think SUV Coupe's are a worst-of-all worlds solution to a problem that never existed, but they exist, so someone obviously likes them.
I think SUV Coupe's are a worst-of-all worlds solution to a problem that never existed, but they exist, so someone obviously likes them.
C.A.R. said:
I think you'd have to really want one as objectively they're a worse car than the I5N, Tesla Model Y Performance and upcoming IX3 from BMW - despite the upbadged Renault (which is itself a Nissan Ariya?) being a more expensive proposition.
I think SUV Coupe's are a worst-of-all worlds solution to a problem that never existed, but they exist, so someone obviously likes them.
It s got its own unique strengths though. Proper double rear motor torque vectoring, short wheelbase, relatively light for this class. Add in a bit of French styling and upmarket finish. I think SUV Coupe's are a worst-of-all worlds solution to a problem that never existed, but they exist, so someone obviously likes them.
It s not an SUV either. It s the same height as most modern hatchbacks and estates. Just has slightly more ground clearance, which could be quite useful too. It s nothing like the new iX3 SUV and a few hundred kg lighter.
Ultimately, these cars are all a fair bit different and will appeal to different people. You could toss in the Mustang Mach-e GT/Rally too as a wildcard SUV. Or the new Lexus RZ 550e F-Sport.
These are all cars I ve personally considered as a daily drive. The Top Trumps winning I5N is my least favourite. Just personal preference.
aporschefan said:
It ll be interesting to see exactly what quality/standard of interior and finish the a390 has. It ll have to be more market than the a290 and comparable to a well spec d Macan. IMO anyway.
Early reviews indicate a high level of finish. It looks nice in 4K walkaround videos. A well specced Macan is £90k so they are not really comparable on price. But monthlies will be key for most people. ShortBeardy said:
A390 GTS 2120kg and 0-60 3.9s or Model 3P at 1850kg and 3.1s to 60 and 10k less
Subjectively one might prefer it, but objectively I'm not sure you can justify the A390 on the basis of being a `driver's' car.
It depends how much the triple motor setup contributes to the handling dynamics vs weight difference. Early reviews suggest it is set up quite conservatively for a good ride/handling balance. But then the latest Model 3P has adaptive damping to overcome the previous harsh ride. Subjectively one might prefer it, but objectively I'm not sure you can justify the A390 on the basis of being a `driver's' car.
Straight line performance is only a relatively small part of being a “drivers” car. I think the GTS is quick enough for that difference not to matter much on the road.
It will have to be a heck of a thing to beat the 5n ours has been great other than the ubiquitous ICCU fault that's we've just had on ours. We had a Macan ICE before and honestly the 5N embarrasses Porsche is so far ahead of the game. We looked at the electric Macan but they missed a trick with that car by not playing with the packaging. It's just a Macan with ev power. The 5n is almost the same exterior dimensions but the room inside is vast especially the rear seats. The porsche is also comically overpriced. 80k for a boggo one with a bit of spec and well over 100 with the power to match the 5N which was only 66k. 640bhp for 66k is almost American domestic market value!
If the mass is not a factor then for the weight of a medium passenger (60kg), a 3 motor Model S Plaid would give you >1000hp, <2s to 60.
With the optional track pack carbon ceramics you also get software control of power distribution and can change from `front motor only' to `rear motors only' to the full fat AWD.
Of potential amusement(!?) to the svelte passenger and budding helmsmith is that you can do it on the move...
With the optional track pack carbon ceramics you also get software control of power distribution and can change from `front motor only' to `rear motors only' to the full fat AWD.
Of potential amusement(!?) to the svelte passenger and budding helmsmith is that you can do it on the move...
Edited by ShortBeardy on Friday 16th January 02:39
ShortBeardy said:
A390 GTS 2120kg and 0-60 3.9s or Model 3P at 1850kg and 3.1s to 60 and 10k less
Subjectively one might prefer it, but objectively I'm not sure you can justify the A390 on the basis of being a `driver's' car.
0-60 is one thing.Subjectively one might prefer it, but objectively I'm not sure you can justify the A390 on the basis of being a `driver's' car.
The Tesla M3P suffers from very poor brakes - dead after a handful of corners on a track, and bad battery cooling management, which reigns in the power/toque delivery.
The A390GTS addresses all of those issues, with (mostly) better parts. Does this make it 'better' - that is subjective, but the brakes will continue to work and the power won't drop off to an overheated battery.
ShortBeardy said:
If the mass is not a factor then for the weight of a medium passenger (60kg), a 3 motor Model S Plaid would give you >1000hp, <2s to 60.
With the optional track pack carbon ceramics you also get software control of power distribution and can change from `front motor only' to `rear motors only' to the full fat AWD.
Of potential amusement(!?) to the svelte passenger and budding helmsmith is that you can do it on the move...
I’ve only driven older Model S cars (2018 P100D) and that was very much a cruise ship in comparison to a Model 3. Not just the extra weight, but the longer wheelbase and wider track. Great car, but not that great on tight twisty roads. I preferred driving my Model 3 on local roads for this reason. I’m sure the Plaid is a sharper tool, but still a long wheelbase car which is unlikely to feel as agile as this short wheelbase Alpine. The i5N also has a relatively long wheelbase. Not better or worse, but will feel different. The Alpine has a 2.7 m wheelbase vs 3.0 m for the i5N and Tesla Model S.With the optional track pack carbon ceramics you also get software control of power distribution and can change from `front motor only' to `rear motors only' to the full fat AWD.
Of potential amusement(!?) to the svelte passenger and budding helmsmith is that you can do it on the move...
Edited by ShortBeardy on Friday 16th January 02:39
ShortBeardy said:
A390 GTS 2120kg and 0-60 3.9s or Model 3P at 1850kg and 3.1s to 60 and 10k less
Subjectively one might prefer it, but objectively I'm not sure you can justify the A390 on the basis of being a `driver's' car.
I think you've shown you can't justify it in a game of Top Trumps. Nothing there says what each is like to drive. Subjectively one might prefer it, but objectively I'm not sure you can justify the A390 on the basis of being a `driver's' car.
Sporky said:
ShortBeardy said:
A390 GTS 2120kg and 0-60 3.9s or Model 3P at 1850kg and 3.1s to 60 and 10k less
Subjectively one might prefer it, but objectively I'm not sure you can justify the A390 on the basis of being a `driver's' car.
I think you've shown you can't justify it in a game of Top Trumps. Nothing there says what each is like to drive. Subjectively one might prefer it, but objectively I'm not sure you can justify the A390 on the basis of being a `driver's' car.
I agree, a `better driving' car is a subjective assessment. No argument. I was noting that the indicators typically considered as being relevant are not in its favour compared with lower cost competition.
Brakes are a problem for any `performance' EV because if they are big enough to take punishment on the track then they will never get warm on the road due to the regen available. It's a bit of an EV oddity; the performance EVs with bigger motors also have `bigger regen' available. Yes, the Tesla brakes and management are set up for a road car but if your budget is set by the A390 GTS, then you have 10k for track brakes and a bigger cooler and there is software to make your car more suited to the track.
But as a road car the M3P is great. Front suspension geometry is different from standard model 3 and newer suspension is improved. Interior is notably better than lower spec models. Tesla makes it pretty easy to test drive one so why not?
The S Plaid is shockingly rapid: Acceleration is instant and unrelenting but it's not the thing to hurl down a white. However, the idea that via sliders on the screen you could go from FWD to RWD mid corner is rather fascinating, if perhaps morbidly so.
Brakes are a problem for any `performance' EV because if they are big enough to take punishment on the track then they will never get warm on the road due to the regen available. It's a bit of an EV oddity; the performance EVs with bigger motors also have `bigger regen' available. Yes, the Tesla brakes and management are set up for a road car but if your budget is set by the A390 GTS, then you have 10k for track brakes and a bigger cooler and there is software to make your car more suited to the track.
But as a road car the M3P is great. Front suspension geometry is different from standard model 3 and newer suspension is improved. Interior is notably better than lower spec models. Tesla makes it pretty easy to test drive one so why not?
The S Plaid is shockingly rapid: Acceleration is instant and unrelenting but it's not the thing to hurl down a white. However, the idea that via sliders on the screen you could go from FWD to RWD mid corner is rather fascinating, if perhaps morbidly so.
This isn't really a question anyone else can answer for you. To me, these are two very different cars, and a lot depends on what you want to use it for, where you want to drive it, and what motivates you. Over the years I've owned everything from hot hatches to several TVRs, and each of those was the right car for me at the time, and the wrong car at other times. If you want a car to hoon round a track, brag down the pub about those top trump stats, or if you enjoy that simulated engine noise and gear changes, then the Ioniq is the car for you. A younger me would have chosen the Ioniq for all those reasons. Alpine has never been about being the fastest in a straight line, or the fastest accelerating. As an A110 owner, (for 7 years!), I regularly see potential buyers post on the various forums asking why people like their A110, and there are never any numbers in the answers given. Yesterday I had the pleasure of driving an A390 GT round the sweeping hill roads of the Calanques, to the East of Marseille, the sort of territory every Alpine since the 60's has been designed to tackle, and the sort of territory I live and drive in. The A390 isn't an A110, but right from the off in the centre of Marseille, the Alpine DNA was present. The sharp turn in, even the brake bite point and feel - a particular challenge with recoup braking, felt familiar (unlike the soggy pedal of the new electric Merc CLA I drove earlier in the week). Into the hills, and the Alpine was an absolute joy, on those winding roads and hairpins, with plenty poke even in the "slower" GT form. Unlike the Ioniq however it would not be an obvious choice as a track car, despite having comprehensive onboard telemetrics and even a virtual driving coach to teach you how to get the most out of those hairpins. So my answer to you is forget numbers, they are both great cars, but they are different. Drive both and assess each against your own needs, and in this class of car your emotions, and you will know which one is for you.
Just to pick up on a couple of points from other posters: Somebody suggested that an SUV coupe is a solution to a problem which never existed. This may be true, but many people would say that a 2 Tonne plus, 5 seater road car with a sub 4 second 0-60 time (or perhaps even sub 5 second), which covers both of these cars, is a solution to a problem which never existed. But without cars which we buy for unnecessary aesthetic or performance reasons, the World would be a poorer place. Make the most of it while it lasts, as the Chinese are discussing a ban on sub 5 second cars, and where they go, others may follow. Secondly, somebody dismissed the Alpine as an "upbadged Renault", which would be no bad thing if it were true, Renault have produced some good chassis over the years. However unlike the 5N, which even Hyundai describe as being an "enhanced" 5, the A390 is pretty much bespoke. From the bottom up, it doesn't share the wheelbase or Track with any Renault model, the suspension, the drivetrain, the rear motors, and even battery, are specific to the A390. The LCD displays? Well you've got me there, but nobody would tool up a new LCD panel for a car with a production volume planned at a mere 6000 units per year.
Now back to my own problem. How do I persuade my wife she really wants the A390 rather than the CLA?
Just to pick up on a couple of points from other posters: Somebody suggested that an SUV coupe is a solution to a problem which never existed. This may be true, but many people would say that a 2 Tonne plus, 5 seater road car with a sub 4 second 0-60 time (or perhaps even sub 5 second), which covers both of these cars, is a solution to a problem which never existed. But without cars which we buy for unnecessary aesthetic or performance reasons, the World would be a poorer place. Make the most of it while it lasts, as the Chinese are discussing a ban on sub 5 second cars, and where they go, others may follow. Secondly, somebody dismissed the Alpine as an "upbadged Renault", which would be no bad thing if it were true, Renault have produced some good chassis over the years. However unlike the 5N, which even Hyundai describe as being an "enhanced" 5, the A390 is pretty much bespoke. From the bottom up, it doesn't share the wheelbase or Track with any Renault model, the suspension, the drivetrain, the rear motors, and even battery, are specific to the A390. The LCD displays? Well you've got me there, but nobody would tool up a new LCD panel for a car with a production volume planned at a mere 6000 units per year.
Now back to my own problem. How do I persuade my wife she really wants the A390 rather than the CLA?
Edited by rick.e on Saturday 17th January 09:32
Edited by rick.e on Saturday 17th January 09:49
Worth reading the test notes:
"In the side barrier test, the Alpine A390 provided good protection to all critical body areas. However, the door of the car opened in the impact, which led to a penalty being applied to the test score."
and
"The door-opening in the side barrier test precluded the A390 from scoring points for far-side protection."
"In the side barrier test, the Alpine A390 provided good protection to all critical body areas. However, the door of the car opened in the impact, which led to a penalty being applied to the test score."
and
"The door-opening in the side barrier test precluded the A390 from scoring points for far-side protection."
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff