Frunk's - why still just a bonnet?
Discussion
I have viewed a few EV's on Saturday as we are thinking of buying one.
What struck us is a universal frunk is still a lever down by the pedals, still a heavy bonnet with second release catch that is usually filthy, with a wee bit of plastic (maybe lined) tray as space. It seems obvious that, as with getting rid of radiator grilles, the whole notion of a bonnet opening to get at cables (or them buried below all your luggage in the boot) is rather out-dated and asking for some simple innovation.
The Panda has it nailed with a retractable lead, but surely some other makes could have come up with better...?
What struck us is a universal frunk is still a lever down by the pedals, still a heavy bonnet with second release catch that is usually filthy, with a wee bit of plastic (maybe lined) tray as space. It seems obvious that, as with getting rid of radiator grilles, the whole notion of a bonnet opening to get at cables (or them buried below all your luggage in the boot) is rather out-dated and asking for some simple innovation.
The Panda has it nailed with a retractable lead, but surely some other makes could have come up with better...?
One of those aspects where the legacy manufacturers haven't thrown the 'way we've always done it' away, in the new world.
Also the front/top edge of the car is the most carefully and tightly legislated, for pedestrian protection. You can't put a hard-point handle like the ones on your side doors on the front of the car if it's not 'soft'.
Also the front/top edge of the car is the most carefully and tightly legislated, for pedestrian protection. You can't put a hard-point handle like the ones on your side doors on the front of the car if it's not 'soft'.
Completely agree, it's another sign of how legacy carmakers don't get it.
Make the frunk easy to open and close, and it becomes a convenient storage space for coats and small items, especially if you've reversed into a parking bay. Make it an awkward, grimy, multi-step process and it won't be used.
What's baffling is, I'm sure mid-engined cars have had useful frunks for years. I have two cars; one EV, one with a petrol engine behind the seats. The petrol car has a useful frunk which can be released from the keyfob or a button on the centre console. The EV has the aforementioned lever down in the footwell and secondary release to hunt for.
snuffy said:
Surely its a Froot?
Indeed, given that this is a UK forum and that the origins of the word boot (in this context) refer to storage that was at the front of a cart, specifically where the driver needed to store their boots. Although the Americans were arguably more logical to stop calling it a boot when it was relocated to the rear of carts, becoming simply a 'trunk'.Here endeth the lesson.
I believe any rear-hinged bonnet needs two independent mechanical catches for safety reasons. I guess the legacy manufacturers have just lifted the bonnet release mechanism from their existing cars rather than designing a proper EV-specific solution, but as people said above there are plenty of cars, mostly from manufacturers who specialise in EVs, who do it properly.
SpeckledJim said:
One of those aspects where the legacy manufacturers haven't thrown the 'way we've always done it' away, in the new world.
Also the front/top edge of the car is the most carefully and tightly legislated, for pedestrian protection. You can't put a hard-point handle like the ones on your side doors on the front of the car if it's not 'soft'.
Pretty much this, despite there being no need for cars to be the shape they are at all any more given the motor is down by the axels and the batteries anywhere. They don't design in a frunk it's just space left over when they fit the gubbins.Also the front/top edge of the car is the most carefully and tightly legislated, for pedestrian protection. You can't put a hard-point handle like the ones on your side doors on the front of the car if it's not 'soft'.
kambites said:
I believe any rear-hinged bonnet needs two independent mechanical catches for safety reasons. I guess the legacy manufacturers have just lifted the bonnet release mechanism from their existing cars rather than designing a proper EV-specific solution, but as people said above there are plenty of cars, mostly from manufacturers who specialise in EVs, who do it properly.
Yes, it's a requirement. The manufacturers put the minimal energy into making it nice and easy to do, as they know most new car owners almost never lift the bonnet. When that same space becomes proper usable storage, potentially accessed daily, they should put some effort into making it more accessible. Not necessarily an easy task, given the ped-pro requirements in that area.
SpeckledJim said:
Not necessarily an easy task, given the ped-pro requirements in that area.
That brings up another interesting question - do modern hard-point clearance requirements also apply to something hard that an owner could potentially put in the front storage area? Ie if you add a front boot, do you have to make sure there's a crushable structure above it to protect pedestrians should the owner fill it with something hard? kambites said:
That brings up another interesting question - do modern hard-point clearance requirements also apply to something hard that an owner could potentially put in the front storage area? Ie if you add a front boot, do you have to make sure there's a crushable structure above it to protect pedestrians should the owner fill it with something hard?
My old V70 solved this by having a thick rubber engine cover and the bonnet sound deadening.And yes, I also though the double catch was a legal requirement. Hence why an old Saab did not need with a forward hinging/rotating bonnet.
The froot/frunk/DILLIGAF what it is called does not have to be on the front bonnet - wings, front bumper, behind the charging flap, rear boot lid etc are all places where cables could be stored and easily accessible. It just seems odd and very sloppy design to go 'ooh look, a 40lt plastic box in a space we found spare' rather than designing something more accessible and useable.
kambites said:
I believe any rear-hinged bonnet needs two independent mechanical catches for safety reasons. I guess the legacy manufacturers have just lifted the bonnet release mechanism from their existing cars rather than designing a proper EV-specific solution, but as people said above there are plenty of cars, mostly from manufacturers who specialise in EVs, who do it properly.
The Lotus Esprit has a front hinged bonnet. You open and close in from within the car using something that looks like an upside down coathanger, it moves the bonnet catches to secure the bonnet.And if you forget to do that, everything is fine driving, until you get to about 50mph, then then bonnet starts to lift up. Which is a bit scary !
samoht said:
Completely agree, it's another sign of how legacy carmakers don't get it.
Make the frunk easy to open and close, and it becomes a convenient storage space for coats and small items, especially if you've reversed into a parking bay. Make it an awkward, grimy, multi-step process and it won't be used.
What's baffling is, I'm sure mid-engined cars have had useful frunks for years. I have two cars; one EV, one with a petrol engine behind the seats. The petrol car has a useful frunk which can be released from the keyfob or a button on the centre console. The EV has the aforementioned lever down in the footwell and secondary release to hunt for.
A mid engined Fiat X1/9 had a large front boot which hinged at the front so you lifted the relatively clean rear corners after releasing an internal catch. And it was designed around 1969!Make the frunk easy to open and close, and it becomes a convenient storage space for coats and small items, especially if you've reversed into a parking bay. Make it an awkward, grimy, multi-step process and it won't be used.
What's baffling is, I'm sure mid-engined cars have had useful frunks for years. I have two cars; one EV, one with a petrol engine behind the seats. The petrol car has a useful frunk which can be released from the keyfob or a button on the centre console. The EV has the aforementioned lever down in the footwell and secondary release to hunt for.
Moonpie21 said:
The idiot in me says make it a button operated electrically opening/closing flap where the grille was, as its no longer needed, that hides a drawer to manually pull out and store stuff in. Safe and clean...
Monstrously fragile and expensive to fix in a small front-end bump. Insurance companies won't like it.Nothing wrong with the existing bonnet and frunk idea. They just need to make it a bit less of a faff to access, without rummaging in the foot well, or playing clumsy gynecologist with the secondary catch.
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