Can we cancel democracy please?
Discussion
Furbo said:
I am sure we were told most of the councils were tory controlled. Out of the 22 who have decided to postpone only three are tory and one lib dem.Unhelpfully the BBC seem to have omitted how many Labour councils have postponed lumping them in with an unknown number of NOC and independents.
I am sure this is an oversight which will be clarified later.
I’d it such a bad thing, There does seem to be reasoning behind it …
“It means some of the councils up for election this year will be folded into new unitary councils in 2027 or 2028, so councillors could only be in office for a year”
Probably small beer but that could be a year of wasting time, setting up new offices, IT infrastructure & committees (more than normal
).
Then again councillors only in term fit a year would probably get put out of the pension fund for only being in such a short time so swings & roundabouts!
I’m aware with us in Scotland our local elections moved from 4yrs to 5yrs with those sitting at the time just extending their term - there wasn’t an uproar about it.
“It means some of the councils up for election this year will be folded into new unitary councils in 2027 or 2028, so councillors could only be in office for a year”
Probably small beer but that could be a year of wasting time, setting up new offices, IT infrastructure & committees (more than normal
). Then again councillors only in term fit a year would probably get put out of the pension fund for only being in such a short time so swings & roundabouts!
I’m aware with us in Scotland our local elections moved from 4yrs to 5yrs with those sitting at the time just extending their term - there wasn’t an uproar about it.
davek_964 said:
They'll probably cancel / delay them, and then a few weeks later change their mind..............
It is shocking though. I guess it's so they can hang on as long as possible - I doubt even Labour MPs think that they'll get more popular as their term continues.
Really, Starmer has told us Labour have fixed the foundations and this year will be the one where it all pays off. I honestly think there are people out there that actually believe this. It is shocking though. I guess it's so they can hang on as long as possible - I doubt even Labour MPs think that they'll get more popular as their term continues.
It definitely isn't that probably 20 Labour run councils are going to get an absolute kicking in May which would result in Starmer being removed as PM
Furbo said:
I'm quite relaxed about delaying elections, I'd even argue it's sensible given they're about to be abolished. ON THE OTHER HAND, the coming changes to Local Government themselves are lowering democracy levels alarmingly. At the moment there are three elected local Councillors I can literally phone at home directly whenever I feel like it and they will likely have time to talk to me. They attend all Parish Council meetings so an ordinary punter like me can turn up and chat to them face to face every other month without leaving my Parish. (Or if I want to go to neighboring parishes a few times a month, which seems crazy now I say it!) After these changes each Councillor will represent 16,000 people, they'll have to be paid a salary, I'm sure. They are going to be more like an MP, completely remote from me with no time to engage locally at all beyond the odd photo shoot. And the centre of decision making will me moved from (in my case) a very nearby town to a city 30 miles away with a totally different world view and totally different priorities.
These coming changes are 100% bad and completely aimed at saving money. *If* it saves money (which I doubt) it will be in the extreme long term. In the short and medium term it's going to cost a fortune.
One final thought. You are WAY better of with local representation from party you don't like than you will from a party you *do* like miles an miles away. I know my Councillors want my immediate area to be good because they live in my area and it has never made any difference what party they are from. When they live miles an miles away it won't matter what party, they are not living with the local issues you live with, they will not be daily seeing the same puddles or the same broken signage or the same fly tipping. In fact most likely they will have seen a problem before you and already contacted the right people to deal with it. So an extra year of neighbors from a Party you hate representing you will be WAY better then a bunch of 30-90 total strangers miles away with (possibly) *one* who vaguely lives nearish you but likely not in walking distance.
Another final thought... IF you reckon you're not being democratically represented if these elections are skipped talk direct to your Councillor(s). Tell them what you want them to do that they're not currently doing. You'll at least get a direct explanation, and if you think they're a dictator they're at least a dictator who will explain themselves to you.
A third final thought. If people think it's that bad right now they can even become a Councillor... It's unpaid voluntary work so people aren't exactly fighting for the role. When they reduce the representation down to 30 paid people per 500k becoming a Councillor will be *way* more difficult.
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Thursday 15th January 08:48
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Thursday 15th January 09:01
Vanden Saab said:
Really, Starmer has told us Labour have fixed the foundations and this year will be the one where it all pays off. I honestly think there are people out there that actually believe this.
I don't, but it'd be great if it happened.Conversely, there are people who think the mess we're in has nothing to do with however long it was that the Conservatives were running things into the ground. There are even people who think the Russian-funded Reform thugs would do a good job, so it takes all sorts.
Edited by Sporky on Thursday 15th January 09:00
Sporky said:
Vanden Saab said:
Really, Starmer has told us Labour have fixed the foundations and this year will be the one where it all pays off. I honestly think there are people out there that actually believe this.
I don't, but it'd be great if it happened.Conversely, there are people who think the mess we're in has nothing yo do with however long it was that the Conservatives were running things into the ground. There are even people who think the Russian-founded Reform thugs would do a good job, so it takes all sorts.
borcy said:
None of them like the 2/3 tiered system and have bribed/unlocked funding to get councils to sign up.
Yeah, this is nothing to do with parties. Central Government routinely f
ks over Local Government. Forcing local government to make stupid/unpopular decisions knowing Local Government will get the blame is a feature not a bug.BikeBikeBIke said:
If people think it's that bad right now they can even become a Councillor... It's unpaid voluntary work so people aren't exactly fighting for the role. When they reduce the representation down to 30 paid people per 500k becoming a Councillor will be *way* more difficult.
That's not really true for County councillors which is what we're talking about here; true they don't receive a salary but they do receive an allowance and are also entitled to claim expenses. For example, the basic allowance (excluding any expenses) for councillors here in North Yorkshire is £17k/annum which isn't too bad considering many probably don't do much more than 20 hours a week. The council leader gets over £60k/annum although to be fair the time commitment associated with that role is probably more akin to a full-time job.
Furbo said:
An absolute disgrace. If they have no time to reorganize AND have an election then they should stop the reorg.TX.
JNW1 said:
That's not really true for County councillors which is what we're talking about here; true they don't receive a salary but they do receive an allowance and are also entitled to claim expenses.
The problem is (at least round here) that the County Council meetings are all during the day, so it only attracts the retired and independently wealthy.BikeBikeBIke said:
borcy said:
None of them like the 2/3 tiered system and have bribed/unlocked funding to get councils to sign up.
Yeah, this is nothing to do with parties. Central Government routinely fks over Local Government. Forcing local government to make stupid/unpopular decisions knowing Local Government will get the blame is a feature not a bug.No doubt in part for historical reasons and the nature of how they became to be countries (as we recognise them today) which is different from the uk.
JNW1 said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
If people think it's that bad right now they can even become a Councillor... It's unpaid voluntary work so people aren't exactly fighting for the role. When they reduce the representation down to 30 paid people per 500k becoming a Councillor will be *way* more difficult.
That's not really true for County councillors which is what we're talking about here; true they don't receive a salary but they do receive an allowance and are also entitled to claim expenses. For example, the basic allowance (excluding any expenses) for councillors here in North Yorkshire is £17k/annum which isn't too bad considering many probably don't do much more than 20 hours a week. The council leader gets over £60k/annum although to be fair the time commitment associated with that role is probably more akin to a full-time job.
Either way, the point holds true. People aren't desperate to do this, they're doing it to make their area as good as it can be. (Or truthfully in some cases they're doing it because their party needed to put someone up in a Ward with zero chance of winning and then the guy who thought he was just making up numbers unexpectedly won.) So anyone who thinks they would do better has a very good chance of getting the gig.
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