American Speed Engine Problems
Discussion
I purchased an American Speed all aluminum engine, 600 HP. After 600 miles primarily at the track I spun a rod bearing and had to pull the motor. The motor had to be rebuilt as the bearing and connecting rod were gone as was the oil pump from the debris. After the rebuild I was told the following:
.the block had to be line bored as the crank clearance on the bearings was to small on the rod journal in question, .008.
. a cylinder needed a new sleeve and was badly worn..I was assured that there was no way I could have done this in 600 miles
.the lifter bores had to be machined because the clearence was to tight
.there were no oil plugs in the motor to restrict oil to the top end, as this is a roller motor these should have been put in
. the AFR heads were collecting oil on top because there are no drains from the valve stem area, poor design. I think this is the reason I saw oil on the exhaust valves as I took off the headers and why the motor burned oil and had terrible emmissions.
So I paid $24K US dollars for what I am now told is a poorly designed motor built with a used block.
I dont know how much of this is true but I do know that you dont spin bearing on a 600 mile motor.
Has anyone else had problems with their American
Speed engine?
Ray
.the block had to be line bored as the crank clearance on the bearings was to small on the rod journal in question, .008.
. a cylinder needed a new sleeve and was badly worn..I was assured that there was no way I could have done this in 600 miles
.the lifter bores had to be machined because the clearence was to tight
.there were no oil plugs in the motor to restrict oil to the top end, as this is a roller motor these should have been put in
. the AFR heads were collecting oil on top because there are no drains from the valve stem area, poor design. I think this is the reason I saw oil on the exhaust valves as I took off the headers and why the motor burned oil and had terrible emmissions.
So I paid $24K US dollars for what I am now told is a poorly designed motor built with a used block.
I dont know how much of this is true but I do know that you dont spin bearing on a 600 mile motor.
Has anyone else had problems with their American
Speed engine?
Ray
Ray, commiserations on the engine problems. I'm new to the whole Chevy V8 scene. How did you know that you spun a bearing? What does that sound or feel like? I'm keen to learn what the various problems are and what their indications are.
I have a 550 hp 396 c.i. iron block / aluminium heads AS engine, with about 700 miles on it now, and all seems well (but I'm being tame with it, and just driving on the road).
I have a 550 hp 396 c.i. iron block / aluminium heads AS engine, with about 700 miles on it now, and all seems well (but I'm being tame with it, and just driving on the road).
It is like most things in life and you can be unlucky! Generally AS engines seem to be pretty robust and I have been reasonable happy with mine. Like most I have had little exposure to these types of engine so my knowledge “was” quite limited and now a little better with experience.
I was unfortunate to have an AS engine with a front oil seal failure after approx 900 miles, I was one out of a batch of 12 or so with the same issue. But this was not necessarily AS fault and would have happy replaced it, but shipping the whole engine back for a £5 part seemed mad so I did it myself.
My only other gripe would be with oil consumption and the related issue of over fuelling, leading probably to bore washing not to mention lots of black smoke on acceleration. This I feel I need to rectify by having the carb re-jetted before too much damage occurs internally. Again oil consumption seems to be something that follows a SBC so should not blame AS for this directly perhaps!?
I was unfortunate to have an AS engine with a front oil seal failure after approx 900 miles, I was one out of a batch of 12 or so with the same issue. But this was not necessarily AS fault and would have happy replaced it, but shipping the whole engine back for a £5 part seemed mad so I did it myself.
My only other gripe would be with oil consumption and the related issue of over fuelling, leading probably to bore washing not to mention lots of black smoke on acceleration. This I feel I need to rectify by having the carb re-jetted before too much damage occurs internally. Again oil consumption seems to be something that follows a SBC so should not blame AS for this directly perhaps!?
pb3 said:
My only other gripe would be with oil consumption and the related issue of over fuelling, leading probably to bore washing not to mention lots of black smoke on acceleration. This I feel I need to rectify by having the carb re-jetted before too much damage occurs internally. Again oil consumption seems to be something that follows a SBC so should not blame AS for this directly perhaps!?
Phil
Bore wash is one side of over-fueling but the other and more dangerous perhaps is petrol contaminating the oil. I have seen a few over-fueled SBC's (and SBF's for that matter) that when you look and smell the engine oil have high concentrations of fuel blended in the oil. Obviously not a very satisfactory situation!
Many people speak of high oil consumption on SBC's (and oil leaks) but mine does not use much at all even on track - (mine's not an AS engine)
Phil
the AS SBC engine's looks great and the sound is good, but they can't match modern engine's with econemy and reliabiliety not to speak about the other things...?
So I think its better for Ultima to advise only the newer type engine's say no older then 10 years, they still can use Chevy, but then LS, but also can take other brands like Audi's V8 or BMW V8?
Don't know if its possible, but the new AMG V8 6.3 with 510hp standard!(no supercharger!) and 630nm at 5.200rpm, could be a blast! and they also sounds great! and are very reliable and strong engine's(AMG) and also look goos under the bonnet
its 7 pages long! and very interesting stuf! all info, look yourself...
www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/NewsID/2050713.001/mercedes/1.html
René
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 10th October 10:29
So I think its better for Ultima to advise only the newer type engine's say no older then 10 years, they still can use Chevy, but then LS, but also can take other brands like Audi's V8 or BMW V8?
Don't know if its possible, but the new AMG V8 6.3 with 510hp standard!(no supercharger!) and 630nm at 5.200rpm, could be a blast! and they also sounds great! and are very reliable and strong engine's(AMG) and also look goos under the bonnet
its 7 pages long! and very interesting stuf! all info, look yourself... www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/NewsID/2050713.001/mercedes/1.html
René
>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 10th October 10:29
i imagine the cost of the AMG engine will put most off! i cant see it costing anything close to that of a comparable chevy SB or even a lsx engine! especialy when you think you can get a LS2 402 cubic inch creat engine engine that has been dynoed at 502rwbhp (about 600 crank bhp) for $11K!!
by the way how much do you recon the AMG unit would be??
thanks Chris.
by the way how much do you recon the AMG unit would be??
thanks Chris.
René
The prime reason we use the early engine is that an engine remanufactured from an early block only has to comply with emission regulations related to the year the block was manufactured. This also eliminates the need for cats.
A younger engine but still high performance would have many problems to become road legal.
Steve
The prime reason we use the early engine is that an engine remanufactured from an early block only has to comply with emission regulations related to the year the block was manufactured. This also eliminates the need for cats.
A younger engine but still high performance would have many problems to become road legal.
Steve
chuntington101 said:
i imagine the cost of the AMG engine will put most off! i cant see it costing anything close to that of a comparable chevy SB or even a lsx engine! especialy when you think you can get a LS2 402 cubic inch creat engine engine that has been dynoed at 502rwbhp (about 600 crank bhp) for $11K!!
by the way how much do you recon the AMG unit would be??
thanks Chris.
I don't know yet how much that 6.3 AMG will cost, I guess a lot, but I can't find any prices yet, maybe someone else knowes...but I think it will cost arond 35.000,-euro's...??? thats a guess?
steve_d said:
René
The prime reason we use the early engine is that an engine remanufactured from an early block only has to comply with emission regulations related to the year the block was manufactured. This also eliminates the need for cats.
A younger engine but still high performance would have many problems to become road legal.
Steve
Oké I forgot those "stupid" cats...but your right, its difficult to fix that all under the bonnet...but are'nt they make anny acceptions because its a low volume model? its always better a new engine without cat then an old engine without cat?! they are fooling themselfs that way, but I guess its difficult to make acceptions...Maybe those engine's are claen anough to run without cats...ore am I dreaming...or maybe we can make a demper/cat unit that only replaces the damper as a all in one damper? don't know if thats possible, but I think while its that short with the engine it could be possible?
Can't comment on what your engine builder has said, I'm afraid, as my knowledge of them is very limited!
What do AS have to say?
Mine came with a years guarantee and has a lot of race parts. Yours would be the same. Engines to that spec should be designed to run at high revs for long periods. Is'nt that what they are built for?
My AS 535hp seems reliable at the moment (touch wood) Over 6,000 miles and no real problems, apart from the front pulley seal, which Ultima changed on behalf of AS.
I had it tuned after about 700 (very light) miles, because it was running very rich (clouds of smoke under acceleration and on start up with that pesky electric choke!).
Tuner said I was getting bore wash.
Why do AS set them up like that?
Anyway, it runs fine now, although it does use a fair bit of oil and always has done! (also still leaking from somewhere)
Oil gets very black though. I change it every 1,000 miles.
I was told by the factory that my engine did not need running in BTW.
Gary
What do AS have to say?
Mine came with a years guarantee and has a lot of race parts. Yours would be the same. Engines to that spec should be designed to run at high revs for long periods. Is'nt that what they are built for?
My AS 535hp seems reliable at the moment (touch wood) Over 6,000 miles and no real problems, apart from the front pulley seal, which Ultima changed on behalf of AS.
I had it tuned after about 700 (very light) miles, because it was running very rich (clouds of smoke under acceleration and on start up with that pesky electric choke!).
Tuner said I was getting bore wash.
Why do AS set them up like that?
Anyway, it runs fine now, although it does use a fair bit of oil and always has done! (also still leaking from somewhere)
Oil gets very black though. I change it every 1,000 miles.
I was told by the factory that my engine did not need running in BTW.
Gary
boosted ls1 said:
Run any engine on the track and it's a different ball game entirely. First you need to run it in properly then change the oil.
Fail to do this and you will get bore wash, blow by, piston seizure and or diluted oil causing bearing problems.
Boosted.
Yes, carefully running the engine in before hitting the track is important along with changing the oil. But more important, I think is to reduce the overfueling on the engine before you do anything. Bore wash and subsequent wear is always the result of overfueling along with possible bearing issues caused by the diluted oil.
canam-phil said:
Run any engine on the track and it's a different ball game entirely. First you need to run it in properly then change the oil.
Fail to do this and you will get bore wash, blow by, piston seizure and or diluted oil causing bearing problems.
Boosted.
Yes, carefully running the engine in before hitting the track is important along with changing the oil. But more important, I think is to reduce the overfueling on the engine before you do anything. Bore wash and subsequent wear is always the result of overfueling along with possible bearing issues caused by the diluted oil.
Additionally, properly warming the engine to operating temperature is ESSENTIAL on all ally engines, otherwise you really risk premature wear.
gary been talking to our engine builder this week and he thinks it could be more like the oil evaporating then getting burnt ,can be a common problem with mineral oils ,since i changed my oil to vavoline 20/50 my engine seems to use alot more than it did when i used halfords 15/40 !!simon
Not sure how you can evaporate oil unless you have an open breather system or badly operating pcv set up.
I'd happily use a mineral oil for bedding in and probably something heavier in weight so as to have a greater shear film/capacity on the cylinder walls. It's cheap and will be thrown away after 3-400 miles. You could leave it in for a tad longer. It's collecting all the abrasive particles worn off the cylinder walls so I wouldn't want that crap being pumped around the bearing shells. In fact, you could do a couple of changes with mineral oil. Then I'd switch to a full synthetic of the highest API rating I could find.
Boosted.
I'd happily use a mineral oil for bedding in and probably something heavier in weight so as to have a greater shear film/capacity on the cylinder walls. It's cheap and will be thrown away after 3-400 miles. You could leave it in for a tad longer. It's collecting all the abrasive particles worn off the cylinder walls so I wouldn't want that crap being pumped around the bearing shells. In fact, you could do a couple of changes with mineral oil. Then I'd switch to a full synthetic of the highest API rating I could find.
Boosted.
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