Discussion
Anyone build ( had built ) one using this system ? Would you definitely do again if you had to move and do another house ?
Scope, nothing mad sized , 160 ~200 size range Scotland and I am a southern softy at heart so not prepared to tuff out winters
I will have to be on ASHP
LOTS of glass
Rural so log burner will prbably be allowed, but is it worth it ( or just spec ducting location and prep in casse
OR
Maybe just modern air tight , super insulate but not SIP ?
Scope, nothing mad sized , 160 ~200 size range Scotland and I am a southern softy at heart so not prepared to tuff out winters
I will have to be on ASHP
LOTS of glass
Rural so log burner will prbably be allowed, but is it worth it ( or just spec ducting location and prep in casse
OR
Maybe just modern air tight , super insulate but not SIP ?
Have you been speaking to HebHomes?
Massive fan of the technology - far better than even closed timber frame. No risk of thermal bridges. Great racking resistance. Proven technology at this point.
But not (yet?) lucky enough to live in one.
And you won't be allowed to put a log burner in a new build up north. Just get the flue in. Maybe a hearth. And a big empty space in between.
Also, I've seen a lot of new builds up there with their ASHP and, presumably, their airtighteness - but with trickle vents and no MVHR. I'm yet to get my head round that one...
Massive fan of the technology - far better than even closed timber frame. No risk of thermal bridges. Great racking resistance. Proven technology at this point.
But not (yet?) lucky enough to live in one.
And you won't be allowed to put a log burner in a new build up north. Just get the flue in. Maybe a hearth. And a big empty space in between.
Also, I've seen a lot of new builds up there with their ASHP and, presumably, their airtighteness - but with trickle vents and no MVHR. I'm yet to get my head round that one...
Yes, They are on my list but I am looking at JML
I didnt mention MVHR ....I will go that way for sure . Has other advantages too
The log burner....rules are fluid. I know 2 people who have dad approved in rural Scoltand. I have seen an application not far from my proposed place where it has also been accepted. Gas not available, OIL is a dont even ask ..... dry wood burners still passing planning in rurual scotland where I am building , so I will add it in plans at least and see how it floats
I didnt mention MVHR ....I will go that way for sure . Has other advantages too
The log burner....rules are fluid. I know 2 people who have dad approved in rural Scoltand. I have seen an application not far from my proposed place where it has also been accepted. Gas not available, OIL is a dont even ask ..... dry wood burners still passing planning in rurual scotland where I am building , so I will add it in plans at least and see how it floats
Its a technology that looked interesting when I self built about a decade ago so went out for quotes for SIPs in the second half of last year for a commercial project in the second half of the year.
The self-build got done with built-on-site timber frame. PIR insulated and wooden clad. The commercial project is getting done in block.
The reason is the same: the economics just didn’t stack up for SIPs. I was really surprised to see the pricing for the latest one where effectively it looks like suppliers are looking at the pricing they can achieve for small garden offices and thinking they can scale up from there.
It was also interesting to accidentally discover that some of those boasting about their ability to design and manufacture SIPs were buying panels from a third party… and not all of the manufacturers who claim to offer installation have their own teams. It’s a bit annoying when two of the quotes you get are essentially the same offering but with a different party doing the invoice.
What you don’t get with that type of structure is much in the way of thermal mass. You need to be really careful about solar/thermal gain, especially with lots of glazing, as it can be harder to temperature regulate in summer.
The self-build got done with built-on-site timber frame. PIR insulated and wooden clad. The commercial project is getting done in block.
The reason is the same: the economics just didn’t stack up for SIPs. I was really surprised to see the pricing for the latest one where effectively it looks like suppliers are looking at the pricing they can achieve for small garden offices and thinking they can scale up from there.
It was also interesting to accidentally discover that some of those boasting about their ability to design and manufacture SIPs were buying panels from a third party… and not all of the manufacturers who claim to offer installation have their own teams. It’s a bit annoying when two of the quotes you get are essentially the same offering but with a different party doing the invoice.
What you don’t get with that type of structure is much in the way of thermal mass. You need to be really careful about solar/thermal gain, especially with lots of glazing, as it can be harder to temperature regulate in summer.
You’ll find more experiences here on buildhub
https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/
Including my experiences with a SIPS build (central Scotland). Slightly bigger at 380m2 but not quite as big as emicem’s.
https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/41140-if-you-a...
The method is OK, more a factor of what company you work with.
https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/
Including my experiences with a SIPS build (central Scotland). Slightly bigger at 380m2 but not quite as big as emicem’s.
https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/41140-if-you-a...
The method is OK, more a factor of what company you work with.
"I am a southern softy at heart so not prepared to tuff out winters"
"LOTS of glass"
These two things are not always compatible, same with overheating in our increasingly common heatwaves.
I am in a few month old new-build, built to 2025 Scottish regs and with a heat survey confirming it is 'OK'. Still the two rooms with patio doors you can feel how much cooler they are in cold weather as the glass is so less insulated (even with decent quality and Argon filled etc) than a wall.
A good architect or kit build company can advise far better than I can, as can the BuildHub forum.
"LOTS of glass"
These two things are not always compatible, same with overheating in our increasingly common heatwaves.
I am in a few month old new-build, built to 2025 Scottish regs and with a heat survey confirming it is 'OK'. Still the two rooms with patio doors you can feel how much cooler they are in cold weather as the glass is so less insulated (even with decent quality and Argon filled etc) than a wall.
A good architect or kit build company can advise far better than I can, as can the BuildHub forum.
Alternative to SIPS is a 'straw bale panel' construction, currently have a project on site using Modcell (but there is also EcoCocon but I think they are manufactured in Slovakia... which kind of affects the 'sustainable' side when you factor in transport).
(no affiliation with either)
The project has ground screw foundations and Modcell panels, costs wise it is initially slightly more expensive than masonry, but when you factor in timescales (walls and roof were all on within a week), lack of 'mess', labour, weather, skips, etc. the contractor/developer has said there is no real difference and would happily use it again.
As with SIPS, benefit is once you place the order for the panels, you can also order your windows, roof trusses, etc. as the panels are manufactured in a controlled environment (i.e. a 1000mm panel is 1000mm) whereas brick/blockwork has 'variations'. So, potentially you can have everything in place and have a watertight building in a couple of weeks.
Thermally, it is better than masonry (when comparing o/a construction thickness) and ticks the boxes for sequested carbon/eco/planners.
Internally it comes with Smartply (green OSB) on the inside for airtightness, first fix your electrics/services then batten out and screw plasterboard to them. Externally, batten and/or counter batten and you can finish with whatever material you want to. Which is all doable for a self-builde, then get it skimmed by the plasterers.
Project is clad in cedar shingles (wall and roof - planning requirement) and, whilst it might not be everyone's taste, it does have the effect for its 'wooland' location.
(no affiliation with either)
The project has ground screw foundations and Modcell panels, costs wise it is initially slightly more expensive than masonry, but when you factor in timescales (walls and roof were all on within a week), lack of 'mess', labour, weather, skips, etc. the contractor/developer has said there is no real difference and would happily use it again.
As with SIPS, benefit is once you place the order for the panels, you can also order your windows, roof trusses, etc. as the panels are manufactured in a controlled environment (i.e. a 1000mm panel is 1000mm) whereas brick/blockwork has 'variations'. So, potentially you can have everything in place and have a watertight building in a couple of weeks.
Thermally, it is better than masonry (when comparing o/a construction thickness) and ticks the boxes for sequested carbon/eco/planners.
Internally it comes with Smartply (green OSB) on the inside for airtightness, first fix your electrics/services then batten out and screw plasterboard to them. Externally, batten and/or counter batten and you can finish with whatever material you want to. Which is all doable for a self-builde, then get it skimmed by the plasterers.
Project is clad in cedar shingles (wall and roof - planning requirement) and, whilst it might not be everyone's taste, it does have the effect for its 'wooland' location.
We’re building in the central belt of Scotland just now, got quoted for SIPS and timber frame.
SIPS quote was considerably more expensive than any of the timber frame quotes, trying to keep it on a like for like basis. SIPS supplied & installed vs. timber frame supplied & installed & insulated.
By considerably more expensive, it was 35-80% more.
We went with a timber frame construction, our panels were manufactured offsite then brought in via trailer loads for assembly.
Now, to be fair, there are some caveats to the numbers;
- We did all the stud insulation ourselves which means there was no labour cost there, this was not a quick or fun task (still not actually 100% complete)
- We weren’t pushing on timeline so the longer erection time of timber frame vs SIPS didn’t bother us
- Under the latest regs, the 50mm oversheet would make doing the insulation ourselves an even bigger task
SIPS quote was considerably more expensive than any of the timber frame quotes, trying to keep it on a like for like basis. SIPS supplied & installed vs. timber frame supplied & installed & insulated.
By considerably more expensive, it was 35-80% more.
We went with a timber frame construction, our panels were manufactured offsite then brought in via trailer loads for assembly.
Now, to be fair, there are some caveats to the numbers;
- We did all the stud insulation ourselves which means there was no labour cost there, this was not a quick or fun task (still not actually 100% complete)
- We weren’t pushing on timeline so the longer erection time of timber frame vs SIPS didn’t bother us
- Under the latest regs, the 50mm oversheet would make doing the insulation ourselves an even bigger task
POIDH said:
"I am a southern softy at heart so not prepared to tuff out winters"
"LOTS of glass"
These two things are not always compatible, same with overheating in our increasingly common heatwaves.
I am in a few month old new-build, built to 2025 Scottish regs and with a heat survey confirming it is 'OK'. Still the two rooms with patio doors you can feel how much cooler they are in cold weather as the glass is so less insulated (even with decent quality and Argon filled etc) than a wall.
A good architect or kit build company can advise far better than I can, as can the BuildHub forum.
Indeed I am well aware of the potential contradiction."LOTS of glass"
These two things are not always compatible, same with overheating in our increasingly common heatwaves.
I am in a few month old new-build, built to 2025 Scottish regs and with a heat survey confirming it is 'OK'. Still the two rooms with patio doors you can feel how much cooler they are in cold weather as the glass is so less insulated (even with decent quality and Argon filled etc) than a wall.
A good architect or kit build company can advise far better than I can, as can the BuildHub forum.
The focus will probably be on heat retention. Scotland and the big glass will be largely north facing so less worry . We will check wifes expectations vs detailed calculations. Intention is to go fairly mad on panel spec . I leaning towards a outer brick/stone leaf as the "back" of house will be road facing. Although rural it is a road that carries a fair amount of traffic on and off during day , so I am wanting to minimise noise where possible. Single story
I would be more concerned about drainage and flooding.
Drainage for our already wet climate that is forecast to get more sustained wet periods - see this November - December....
Flooding - as areas that have never flooded will now.
I am this weekend installing some land drains around our new build, partly for this exact reason. I want to be able to enable persistent rain to flow away, not build up damp, and I want an 'extremely wet' drainage system....
Drainage for our already wet climate that is forecast to get more sustained wet periods - see this November - December....
Flooding - as areas that have never flooded will now.
I am this weekend installing some land drains around our new build, partly for this exact reason. I want to be able to enable persistent rain to flow away, not build up damp, and I want an 'extremely wet' drainage system....
I will be on a 1.1Acre plot which has basically about a 4% constant slope , farm land below eventually leads to a big river about 55M below bottom of plot . I have visited the site many times during and after some horrible rain periods ( even by sccotland staandards ) and could easily walk on plot without getting shoes wet ( other than grass).
Not worried about flood. I do hear what you say though, my last house was not in flood area but had some quite alarming water build up during heavy rain storms a few times over the 12 years , so I will be heavily ducting rain water from and around building to an attenuation pond then soak beacuse I never wwant to think about such worries you mention.
[ Famous last words huh ! ]
Not worried about flood. I do hear what you say though, my last house was not in flood area but had some quite alarming water build up during heavy rain storms a few times over the 12 years , so I will be heavily ducting rain water from and around building to an attenuation pond then soak beacuse I never wwant to think about such worries you mention.
[ Famous last words huh ! ]
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