Fiat 500 Learner Car

[NoComment]

Hi all,

My daughter hits 18 in Feb and I've agreed to buy her a cheap car to learn to drive in before she goes off to Uni. She wants a Fiat 500, looking at 08-11 plate with 100k+ miles. Pricewise they seem to be going for between £1.2k - £1.6k.

Is there anything I need to look out for on these, Any major jobs that should be done that will save me a headache?

Thanks for your advice

[paul_c123]

Yeah lots

Rear subframe corrosion
Gearbox
Door handles
Strut top mounts rusting/seizing
Thermostat housing

I am sure a quick Google will reveal even more stuff. These are cheap cars, that age means a lot of components will be end-of-life. They are cheap and easy enough to work on, but there will be a lot to do.

[spreadsheet monkey]

Fiat 500 was featured as SOTW recently.

Watch out for rusty suspension components, cooling system problems, and dodgy electrics.

As well as the usual health warnings for any cheap small car that's popular with younger drivers - lack of regular servicing, trashed interiors, scuffed wheels, poorly repaired accident damage etc etc

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-sheds...

[Mammasaid]

We've just bought our daughter a 2014 1.2 Colour Therapy, I'd say go for the 1.2 as it's a simpler design with less to go wrong compared to the 0.9 Multijet. It's just mainly the usual used car checks, but ensure you check the following, ream beam axle for rust, door handles, plenum drains, earth strap, top mounts and clutch slave cylinders.

However saying that none are particularly difficult to fix, just be prepared to look at a lot of frogs before finding a prince!

[ADJimbo]

Watch out for the panoramic roofs on these - but not from a mechanical perspective.

The Girl that babysits for us passed her driving test, her parents bought her a Fiat 500 with a panoramic roof and all was good. The car took a blow from some road debris and shattered the panoramic roof (it did its job and held-up well) but the value of the replacement roof meant her insurers wrote the vehicle off on paper.

She now has to declare this on her insurance renewals for the next five years which has added both cost and complexity.

[66HFM]

As mentioned above, look for a 1.2 rather than the multi-jet, less complicated and thus less to go wrong. The 1.2 is also well proven.
I've just replaced one of the door handles on my 17 year old daughters Fiat 500 (1.2 Colour Therapy), it was a lot more fiddly than the YouTube videos, but the replacement door handle was only £9!

Corrosion on rear axle, although a brush off in Spring and then Waxoyl to preserve it.

My daughter is a learner and insured in her name with myself and my wife as named drivers insurance was £250, although just until she passes... through Collingwood via the Meerkat.

There are a lot to sift through, cambelt needs replacing, although isn't an expensive job.
Good luck!

[Oberheim]

Plenty can go wrong with them but parts are cheap and widely available and servicing costs are relatively low, especially for the 1.2 8V, which I think is the engine to go for. The 1.4 16V (available from 2008 to 2010 only) is a good engine but all 1.4 500s come with the 6-speed gearbox that restricts front axle movement, making for a ridiculously wide turning circle (many-point turns in tight spaces) - far from ideal for a learner. The 1.2 with the 5-speed box is much easier to manoeuvre in tight spaces. The TwinAir 2-cylinder turbocharged engine, introduced in 2010, is also best avoided - it's not as reliable as the 1.2 and not very economical. The 1.3 Multijet Diesel is also one to avoid - DPF issues, etc.

Mine, a 2008 1.4 Sport 16v 100HP has been 100% reliable for 17 years of ownership and has sailed through every one of its 13 MOTs. But then I have looked after it well (from new) and it's been garaged for most of its life. It hasn't missed a beat and costs peanuts to run, which is why I've kept it all this time as a second/third car.

TBH there are more solid and reliable first car options that I'll be looking at when I get my daughter's first car - top of my list are Toyota Aygo, Hyndai i10, Suzuki Swift and UP/Mii/Citigo, not the 500 (despite my own 500 being brilliant and a long-term keeper).

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

paul_c123 said:

Yeah lots

Rear subframe corrosion
Gearbox
Door handles
Strut top mounts rusting/seizing
Thermostat housing

I am sure a quick Google will reveal even more stuff. These are cheap cars, that age means a lot of components will be end-of-life. They are cheap and easy enough to work on, but there will be a lot to do.

My daughter has a Ford Ka which is essentially the same car. It is a given that the majority of the suspension components will be ruined, you can buy kits of everything on eBay and they have sold hundreds.

As above, the rear axle beam rots and the springs push through the cups.

Gearbox is another issue.

To be honest they feel like a car from the 90s, if I had my way we would have bought something like a Clio over the Ford Ka.

[NoComment]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the advice. Much appreciated and it looks like this could be quite the mission to find a half decent one.

The search begins!

[38911]

Not great learner cars IMO, especially the 08 to 12 model years. Clutches tend to juddery and snappy (they got a lot better after 2012) and the 1.2 has pitiful torque below 2,000 rpm (got even worse after 2012 due to Euro whatever emissions rules) so it stalls very easily. The 0.9 two pot is to be avoided at all costs at this age/price range as it breaks for fun. Likewise don't even entertain an auto - they are proper dire.

Positives : everything that breaks is cheap to fix/replace. Bodywork is incredibly rust resistant (puts Fords of a similar age to shame) but subframe will be crusty and probably need patches welding into it at every annual MOT (not a major deal even if the entire subframe needs replacing).

1.2 FIRE engine is as strong as they get. Brilliant little engine, will take so much abuse it's unreal.
Likewise gearbox is pretty strong and will take learners kangaroo'ing them all day long.

In 3 years of owning ours (a 59 plate, just sold), it needed :

Boot lid wiring loom (especially annoying if you get a 'pop' model as the only way to open is with the remote - they don't have a button on the bootlid, and if the loom fails it won't open - but replacement kits are on eBay for a few quid)

Door handles (the hinges snap for fun) - £10 fix and easy to fit

Ignition coil pack - all four coild are in a block so all have to be replaced at the same time (failed twice in 3 years) - under £100 to replace

Engine mounts (2x top, 1x bottom) - cheap as chips and a doddle to fix

Lower suspension arms (<£50 each and a couple of hours cursing for a DIYer to fit - but they fail so often they're almost consumable items)

Suspension top mounts - they get noisy but rarely catastrophically fail. Didn't bother replacing ours even though they were click as hell.

Exhaust (to be expected at this age - but a common failure point to watch for is the bracket on the downpipe that secures it to the engine block - this corrodes for fun, and when it fails you don't notice, but you risk cracking the exhaust manifold as the engine likes to move around and without the bracket holding the exhaust tight it puts pressure on the manifold)

At that age things like headlight bulb clips will snap due to aged plastic etc.

Ours had zero engine problems, zero major components fail - and it was abused as a tip-run car, filled with building materials weighing way more than it was supposed to carry, thrashed up and down the motorway at speeds it wasn't designed for, used by 4 kids to learn to drive in - and it was still going strong.

[Mikebentley]

Fiat 500 owner here bought for son 18 months ago. 2018 1.2 Lounge. Had water pump and cam belt changed as a precautionary measure and factored in when bought. Sump’s rot and leak by becoming porous for fun. These have been known to happen at 3/4 yrs old. Watch out for tax change, all those I looked at were between £0 and £35 to tax but due to me getting a 2018 it’s £195 p.an even though it’s the same car. It’s been a brilliant little car, easy to park and not fast but adequate.

[Oberheim]

38911 said:

Not great learner cars IMO, especially the 08 to 12 model years. Clutches tend to juddery and snappy (they got a lot better after 2012) and the 1.2 has pitiful torque below 2,000 rpm (got even worse after 2012 due to Euro whatever emissions rules) so it stalls very easily. The 0.9 two pot is to be avoided at all costs at this age/price range as it breaks for fun. Likewise don't even entertain an auto - they are proper dire.

Positives : everything that breaks is cheap to fix/replace. Bodywork is incredibly rust resistant (puts Fords of a similar age to shame) but subframe will be crusty and probably need patches welding into it at every annual MOT (not a major deal even if the entire subframe needs replacing).

1.2 FIRE engine is as strong as they get. Brilliant little engine, will take so much abuse it's unreal.
Likewise gearbox is pretty strong and will take learners kangaroo'ing them all day long.

In 3 years of owning ours (a 59 plate, just sold), it needed :

Boot lid wiring loom (especially annoying if you get a 'pop' model as the only way to open is with the remote - they don't have a button on the bootlid, and if the loom fails it won't open - but replacement kits are on eBay for a few quid)

Door handles (the hinges snap for fun) - £10 fix and easy to fit

Ignition coil pack - all four coild are in a block so all have to be replaced at the same time (failed twice in 3 years) - under £100 to replace

Engine mounts (2x top, 1x bottom) - cheap as chips and a doddle to fix

Lower suspension arms (<£50 each and a couple of hours cursing for a DIYer to fit - but they fail so often they're almost consumable items)

Suspension top mounts - they get noisy but rarely catastrophically fail. Didn't bother replacing ours even though they were click as hell.

Exhaust (to be expected at this age - but a common failure point to watch for is the bracket on the downpipe that secures it to the engine block - this corrodes for fun, and when it fails you don't notice, but you risk cracking the exhaust manifold as the engine likes to move around and without the bracket holding the exhaust tight it puts pressure on the manifold)

At that age things like headlight bulb clips will snap due to aged plastic etc.

Ours had zero engine problems, zero major components fail - and it was abused as a tip-run car, filled with building materials weighing way more than it was supposed to carry, thrashed up and down the motorway at speeds it wasn't designed for, used by 4 kids to learn to drive in - and it was still going strong.

I find it remarkable that my '58 plate 1.4 Sport still has its original door handles and fully functioning wiring at the rear, with no tailgate loom repair needed over its 17 years of life. I know that both are very common issues though. Still has the original exhaust too. No subframe rot on mine either, as evidenced by the straight MOT passes each year. A bit of surface corrosion on the rear beam and springs is the only thing that has come up (as an advisory). A new clutch was needed at 54,000 miles and new front suspension arms at 60,000 miles but that's been about it other than a few wheel bearing replacements and the usual consumables. In all, it's been a ridiculously reliable and cheap-to-maintain car, though I think I've been very lucky with mine.

And yes, the rust resistance of the bodywork has amazed me given the rapid onset of rot that we used to see in older Fiat models.

[scot_aln]

We have one but have often wondered if at least some of the issues are due to the fact they are often learner or first cars. Clutches, gearboxes, engine mounts etc all get a hard time.