The I told you so thread. Relationship breakdown. Day 1
Discussion
So...
Deep sigh...
Over the years I have detailed randomly in ither peoples threads, my downtrodden unhappy approach to what is almost 36 years of marriage, and frequently had other PHers say WTF.. why do you put up with it?... are you a doormat....etc.
Last spring it looked like everything was going okay...but no
The last 200 days have been a proper s
tshow. As detailed of the cancer is an effing offer thread, my wife was very ill and had to have significant parts of her bowel and intestine removed and the level of stress and worry have been intolerable for both of us. The stress has continued and I am not the man that she needs me to be.
We reached a point yesterday where she asked me to move out.
I'm more worried about the practicalities of how she looks after herself than where I might live. Ive been doing allmost every meal, all the shopping, all the jobs around the house because shes not strong enough to come downstairs some days.
I'm not too concerned about me. The practicalities and splitting our finances worries me. It fks up any retirement plans I had completely.
So really this is asking for help with priorities.
Next week we were supposed to be going on holiday in the UK, and much of thr recent stress has been trying to solve the journey which when we booked it was not going to be a problem, but it triggered a whole tirade of accusations about my fitness to be a husband...which unfortunately I took to heart and said things that I regret saying (although they are true)
anyway.....
Its none refundable. It ties into next week being both our 59th Birthdays. Thats 1000 quid down the drain.
So I have next week booked off work...
Lets talk assets, houses and properties and jobs.
My wife hasnt worked since 2006 due to CFS/ME apart from when I employed her to do admin when I was a Ltd company contractor. (Which means she can get full state pension in 8 years)
We own 2 houses. The family home of 28 years which is worth arguably about £260k. Maybe £280k
We also own an ex council house, about 5 miles away which we rent out. The rent is currently well below market rate. About 300 to 400 per month. Due to put it up in May. But was only going to.put it up £100......Unless I ask her to leave. House is worth about £180k no mortgage on either.
I work about 26 miles away. And housing in the vicinity is much cheaper. The same houses would be £180k and £140k.
My wife had an inheritance from her parents of £200k and between us we have savings of about £250k
Jointly in various pension pots is probably about 350k plus we both have final.salary schemes which will be worth £5k each a year at 65.
I earn £64k but until last month had salary sacrificed everything above £50k into pension. Which gives a take home of £3200.
Since Jan i increased the amount so my take home in jan was only £2300. Because £850 rent bumps it up.
So short term... the next week.
I'm due to work from home tomorrow and holiday booked for next week.
Pack a single bag, and go and stay with mother or sister for the weekend... they are 2 hours away...
Sunday go and spend the week alone in the holiday cottage i can't get refunded? Wife would go ape st if she knew, but i could do with the alone time.
Book Airbnb near work..for the following week. note there are rooms in people's houses on airbnb near work for £120 for 3 nights which would work out cheaper than moving to a HMO near work. As long as I work one day from home i only need 3 nights a week. (Home being my sister's box room or mother's house)
In the medium term.... ask tenant to leave. I know its a bit stty....for her...but hey. I either need to live in it or sell it.
In the short term i know I'll be paying the bills on the family home... but in the medium term we will need to split our finances.
I'd like to know what a court would deem fair.
Obviously our kids are going to hate me. I mean who leaves a wife who is not well..... or maybe they'll be relieved.
Right. Its 2:42 am and I need to sleep.
I have weird practicality thoughts...The garage is full of tools my wife has no use for. I have lots of stuff, thst she won't want... Do I rock up one day in a van and take "my things"
Clearly I've emotionally checked out...
Deep sigh...
Over the years I have detailed randomly in ither peoples threads, my downtrodden unhappy approach to what is almost 36 years of marriage, and frequently had other PHers say WTF.. why do you put up with it?... are you a doormat....etc.
Last spring it looked like everything was going okay...but no
The last 200 days have been a proper s
tshow. As detailed of the cancer is an effing offer thread, my wife was very ill and had to have significant parts of her bowel and intestine removed and the level of stress and worry have been intolerable for both of us. The stress has continued and I am not the man that she needs me to be. We reached a point yesterday where she asked me to move out.
I'm more worried about the practicalities of how she looks after herself than where I might live. Ive been doing allmost every meal, all the shopping, all the jobs around the house because shes not strong enough to come downstairs some days.
I'm not too concerned about me. The practicalities and splitting our finances worries me. It f
ks up any retirement plans I had completely. So really this is asking for help with priorities.
Next week we were supposed to be going on holiday in the UK, and much of thr recent stress has been trying to solve the journey which when we booked it was not going to be a problem, but it triggered a whole tirade of accusations about my fitness to be a husband...which unfortunately I took to heart and said things that I regret saying (although they are true)
anyway.....
Its none refundable. It ties into next week being both our 59th Birthdays. Thats 1000 quid down the drain.
So I have next week booked off work...
Lets talk assets, houses and properties and jobs.
My wife hasnt worked since 2006 due to CFS/ME apart from when I employed her to do admin when I was a Ltd company contractor. (Which means she can get full state pension in 8 years)
We own 2 houses. The family home of 28 years which is worth arguably about £260k. Maybe £280k
We also own an ex council house, about 5 miles away which we rent out. The rent is currently well below market rate. About 300 to 400 per month. Due to put it up in May. But was only going to.put it up £100......Unless I ask her to leave. House is worth about £180k no mortgage on either.
I work about 26 miles away. And housing in the vicinity is much cheaper. The same houses would be £180k and £140k.
My wife had an inheritance from her parents of £200k and between us we have savings of about £250k
Jointly in various pension pots is probably about 350k plus we both have final.salary schemes which will be worth £5k each a year at 65.
I earn £64k but until last month had salary sacrificed everything above £50k into pension. Which gives a take home of £3200.
Since Jan i increased the amount so my take home in jan was only £2300. Because £850 rent bumps it up.
So short term... the next week.
I'm due to work from home tomorrow and holiday booked for next week.
Pack a single bag, and go and stay with mother or sister for the weekend... they are 2 hours away...
Sunday go and spend the week alone in the holiday cottage i can't get refunded? Wife would go ape s
t if she knew, but i could do with the alone time. Book Airbnb near work..for the following week. note there are rooms in people's houses on airbnb near work for £120 for 3 nights which would work out cheaper than moving to a HMO near work. As long as I work one day from home i only need 3 nights a week. (Home being my sister's box room or mother's house)
In the medium term.... ask tenant to leave. I know its a bit s
tty....for her...but hey. I either need to live in it or sell it. In the short term i know I'll be paying the bills on the family home... but in the medium term we will need to split our finances.
I'd like to know what a court would deem fair.
Obviously our kids are going to hate me. I mean who leaves a wife who is not well..... or maybe they'll be relieved.
Right. Its 2:42 am and I need to sleep.
I have weird practicality thoughts...The garage is full of tools my wife has no use for. I have lots of stuff, thst she won't want... Do I rock up one day in a van and take "my things"
Clearly I've emotionally checked out...
Sorry to hear this PP. My divorce was also catalyzed by cancer (for a year she went with a guru s advice to beat it with oils, diet and prayer. I bottled up all my feelings to try and support her, with a promise we would check after a year. Obviously it had spread, medical intervention thankfully wasn t too late and she is now well. But we divorced 3 years later anyway, as we had got out of the habit of honest communication, and she still felt that I had not been fully supportive of her choices, plus the cancer triggered the mother of all mid life crises for her)
Do you think you will divorce or just separate?
I would say this is a clear cut case of 50/50 on assets with her getting the inheritance from her parents. She ll be eligible for PIP I would think once separated, so can pay for carers if needed.
Yeah, I can understand the guilt you feel.
One of the best things we did was marriage counseling. It almost worked (but she then cancelled it, as she had already made her mind up) but at least it got us communicating properly again, and made me realise that I wasn t the right person for her anyway. We are not friends, but civil in our interactions (she let me rent her flat in Perth for 3 months, we still ask each other for advice occasionally). We wouldn t have got there without the counseling.
It will also show to your kids that at least you are trying to salvage things/ split amicably. I ended up being seen as friends and family as the one who had tried to salvage things, and then was more than fair in the financial settlement. That, plus her mid life crisis behaviour, means that I am closer to my SIL and BIL than she is. We had no kids though.
Do you think you will divorce or just separate?
I would say this is a clear cut case of 50/50 on assets with her getting the inheritance from her parents. She ll be eligible for PIP I would think once separated, so can pay for carers if needed.
Yeah, I can understand the guilt you feel.
One of the best things we did was marriage counseling. It almost worked (but she then cancelled it, as she had already made her mind up) but at least it got us communicating properly again, and made me realise that I wasn t the right person for her anyway. We are not friends, but civil in our interactions (she let me rent her flat in Perth for 3 months, we still ask each other for advice occasionally). We wouldn t have got there without the counseling.
It will also show to your kids that at least you are trying to salvage things/ split amicably. I ended up being seen as friends and family as the one who had tried to salvage things, and then was more than fair in the financial settlement. That, plus her mid life crisis behaviour, means that I am closer to my SIL and BIL than she is. We had no kids though.
Edited by wisbech on Friday 6th February 04:12
Keep the kids informed of what's going on and be honest with them so they can see this isn't your choice. Maybe ask if you can stay with them for a few days as mum's kicking you out?
From reading your comments over the years, it sounds like the pair of you would have made each other miserable in retirement. Fingers crossed for a clean split. If your wife would go apest at you taking the holiday on your own, it really suggests her thoughts are 100% geared to only her happiness.
From reading your comments over the years, it sounds like the pair of you would have made each other miserable in retirement. Fingers crossed for a clean split. If your wife would go apes
t at you taking the holiday on your own, it really suggests her thoughts are 100% geared to only her happiness. Sorry to hear this, Last night must ve been tough - you re further down the road than I am but I ve had nights staying up until 2am, crying, wondering about theoretical problems like retirement plans and practical outcomes like the contents of my garages and if I d ever see my kids again when it all comes to a head.
I can t offer any magic wands but am more than happy to be a sounding board, it sounds like you ve got a grasp of things and are doing better than you perhaps realise. I know you ll feel guilt about your tenants but the reality is you DO need somewhere to live. Give them plenty of notice and references if they re good tenants and you re being fair. A few days or weeks with family, and a bit of distance may help you and may make your wife realise how much you do for her. I hate to say it. It may also give an opportunity for someone else to come out of the woodwork and help her which you maybe blissfully unaware of. I hope not and maybe my own thoughts and paranoia are creeping in.
At some point you ll need the help of professionals for splitting finances - I don t know how that works in this day and age, in particular with regards to pensions and future income etc
I guess it s not been much help but good luck today. Take it all in small chunks, 1 day or even 1 hour at a time. One day you ll look back and it ll have been a bump in the road but it ll all be over.
Oh and yeah. Take the holiday. Eff it. You ve paid for it. If nothing else. A change of scenery for a few days.
I can t offer any magic wands but am more than happy to be a sounding board, it sounds like you ve got a grasp of things and are doing better than you perhaps realise. I know you ll feel guilt about your tenants but the reality is you DO need somewhere to live. Give them plenty of notice and references if they re good tenants and you re being fair. A few days or weeks with family, and a bit of distance may help you and may make your wife realise how much you do for her. I hate to say it. It may also give an opportunity for someone else to come out of the woodwork and help her which you maybe blissfully unaware of. I hope not and maybe my own thoughts and paranoia are creeping in.
At some point you ll need the help of professionals for splitting finances - I don t know how that works in this day and age, in particular with regards to pensions and future income etc
I guess it s not been much help but good luck today. Take it all in small chunks, 1 day or even 1 hour at a time. One day you ll look back and it ll have been a bump in the road but it ll all be over.
Oh and yeah. Take the holiday. Eff it. You ve paid for it. If nothing else. A change of scenery for a few days.
Edited by Jakey54 on Friday 6th February 08:15
Pit Pony said:
We reached a point yesterday where she asked me to move out.
I'm more worried about the practicalities of how she looks after herself than where I might live. Ive been doing allmost every meal, all the shopping, all the jobs around the house because shes not strong enough to come downstairs some days.
Don't even get into an argument about it. Just say that's your final decision and it's not up for further discussion. You're going nowhere but she's free to do as she pleases. Let her pick the bones out of that.
Is it almost a natural occurrence to push back at and attack those who care about you the most when you’re really ill !?
I’ve seen it myself to a lesser extent.
I’m not really sure what the answer is for you. Maybe lean on the kids if they are adult children to see what they think ?
You just leaving doesn’t sound practical at all.
I’ve seen it myself to a lesser extent.
I’m not really sure what the answer is for you. Maybe lean on the kids if they are adult children to see what they think ?
You just leaving doesn’t sound practical at all.
Pit Pony said:
Its none refundable. It ties into next week being both our 59th Birthdays. Thats 1000 quid down the drain.
So I have next week booked off work...
<snip>
Sunday go and spend the week alone in the holiday cottage i can't get refunded? Wife would go ape st if she knew, but i could do with the alone time.
Go to the holiday cottage. You have nothing to lose and at least you get something out of the 1000 you have paid on it. As well as the valuable alone time to start the long process of getting things in orderSo I have next week booked off work...
<snip>
Sunday go and spend the week alone in the holiday cottage i can't get refunded? Wife would go ape s
t if she knew, but i could do with the alone time. And while you are there think very hard on this: You cannot look after others until you look after yourself!
Nothing I have read from your post or others says that you are looking after yourself
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Well don't go them. She may want you to move out, but she can't demand it. Just say you aren't going because she isn't capable of looking after herself. If she thinks she is, she can move out.
Don't even get into an argument about it. Just say that's your final decision and it's not up for further discussion. You're going nowhere but she's free to do as she pleases. Let her pick the bones out of that.
I agree for the time being....Don't even get into an argument about it. Just say that's your final decision and it's not up for further discussion. You're going nowhere but she's free to do as she pleases. Let her pick the bones out of that.
Read Mexican cuties post on the Cancer thread, also on that thread you say "The logical not quite on the Autism spectrum version of me" which probably makes sense what Mexican cuties says , ie you being you and sensible logical, that have been good qualities for many aspects of your lives, is now not (in her head at least) helping at all.
Have you been seriously ill, had an op etc before, it can change you and the views of those close to you can be contrasting, we all react differently and so the "how would I deal with this" personal reaction can be contrary to the views of the person experiencing it. If you are too logical then you can't always see the other person process things their way, they will feel you are fighting against them, while at the same time, in yourself you are doing all you can to help. If she knows you've not had anything serious there is a mindset of "he just doesn't/can't get it" and there will be some element of truth to that as we can't know, especially when from what i've read she isn't expressing it well, ie she just critises you and is angry.....angry I get, the critisism could be excused at times in the moment, if she later apologised, she should be able to see you are doing a lot and all you can.
This can be where close female friends can be helpful to her in giving her the comfort, the "I understand" moments she perhaps craves, but perhaps not saying at the same time how you are doing a good job supporting her, because your wife has just spent ages moaning about your lack of emotional support from you as she sees it. In their moment as friends together they just want to support and tell her what she wants to hear and keep the needs to hear bits to a minimum. Not all ladies are like this but if a friend has a serious health issue and is venting and feeling down they are not going to see that as a time to counter much of what they are saying, they are going to console them, if not your wife would likely be going to a different friend. That same friend could simultaneously think you are being a saint, they might even mention it to you down the line, might even admit to their friend some time later that they thought that, but they'd likely never say it at this time to your wife.
The fear of or actual realisation life is never going to be the same is a hard pill for anyone to swallow and with things ongoing you can't escape thoughts on your mortality, and the loop that even if that fear goes away I'm still going to feel crap for ages, it's all scary. Slowly you see the positives, that you can get better than this, there is little point in giving up, you need to try and be that person back enjoying life again despite some possible defficiencies, then your mood/personality can calm and get back to the previous you (they may even realsie they've been a real pain, like mexican cuties post states)
Lots of people are very different on the other side of major illnesses, the during part is a huge emotional rollercoaster and will of course test relationships.
You've been there for her, workings, cooking, caring, that she is having issues and sounding off is on her.
None of us can tell you what to do but I for one would not say, don't continue to care for her just because she says so. You need to decide what you want to do and do that, if that ends up being leaving and not caring directly so much for her so be it, but right now it sounds like she is saying it and tbh she's not in the best mindset right now is she?
So an update.
We agreed that she was not strong enough to travel so we had a week at home which included both our birthdays. Everything was great until Friday 13th. And it was more of the same. I'm not honest, I make excuses, I do not own my own st, I'm abusive. It all escalates until she is off her head. This afternoon, I left her to it. Been b swimming and then to the beach.
She's got an endoscopy coming up on Wednesday and the stress that "I" have created has caused her to have abdominal pain. I've had her sister around reading me the riot act (nicely in a quiet assertive voice)
She doesn't want me in the house right now.
The way I see it is that over the years, every time there has been stress, she has basically turned it onto me, and I have ended up being forced to apologise for what she started. Because I have conceded every single time that everything has been my fault, she has gas lighted herself over the years to have lots of examples where my behaviour (in her view) proves that I won't change.
And now with the last 200 plus days being the most stressful in our lives, she is focusing all her fears and worries about next week on anything I do that proves I don't care about her. There is no way that I will EVER be allowed to suggest this to her.
And as it stands she has a massive wall up that I have no way to remove.
The most stupid thing she said today that I won't leave because I think it will look bad on me. That isn't why. Its because I know she's st scared about next week and I know most of what shes saying is bullst and I hold onto the idea that at some point she might see this.
Whilst I'm not about to take my own life, I can see why some people reach a point where they are convinced they aren't ever going to be enough.
Its a st show.
We agreed that she was not strong enough to travel so we had a week at home which included both our birthdays. Everything was great until Friday 13th. And it was more of the same. I'm not honest, I make excuses, I do not own my own s
t, I'm abusive. It all escalates until she is off her head. This afternoon, I left her to it. Been b swimming and then to the beach.She's got an endoscopy coming up on Wednesday and the stress that "I" have created has caused her to have abdominal pain. I've had her sister around reading me the riot act (nicely in a quiet assertive voice)
She doesn't want me in the house right now.
The way I see it is that over the years, every time there has been stress, she has basically turned it onto me, and I have ended up being forced to apologise for what she started. Because I have conceded every single time that everything has been my fault, she has gas lighted herself over the years to have lots of examples where my behaviour (in her view) proves that I won't change.
And now with the last 200 plus days being the most stressful in our lives, she is focusing all her fears and worries about next week on anything I do that proves I don't care about her. There is no way that I will EVER be allowed to suggest this to her.
And as it stands she has a massive wall up that I have no way to remove.
The most stupid thing she said today that I won't leave because I think it will look bad on me. That isn't why. Its because I know she's s
t scared about next week and I know most of what shes saying is bullst and I hold onto the idea that at some point she might see this. Whilst I'm not about to take my own life, I can see why some people reach a point where they are convinced they aren't ever going to be enough.
Its a s
t show. Pit Pony said:
Its a st show.
Broken marriages and relationships normally are.... you have my sympathy having been through it a few years ago.t show. You are allowed to be happy and life is passing by.
I'm not sure she can say she doesn't want you in the house - it's your home. On the finance front, unless the kids are under 18, you just have to work on half of everything - including any pensions.
I assume you've got some mates to have the occasional pint with?
NDA said:
Pit Pony said:
Its a st show.
Broken marriages and relationships normally are.... you have my sympathy having been through it a few years ago.t show. You are allowed to be happy and life is passing by.
I'm not sure she can say she doesn't want you in the house - it's your home. On the finance front, unless the kids are under 18, you just have to work on half of everything - including any pensions.
I assume you've got some mates to have the occasional pint with?
Have I mates? Not really.
wisbech said:
I would say this is a clear cut case of 50/50 on assets with her getting the inheritance from her parents.
I find the issue with inheritance interesting. Edited by wisbech on Friday 6th February 04:12
One of my best friends is going through a nasty divorce at the moment. It's anything but amicable and I'd say the two of them hate each other. For now they are still living in the same house which must be intolerable.
A major factor is that his wife had a large inheritance a few years ago. Large enough that if it were included in their assets and split equally they could both live comfortably. He spent a lot of time helping to look after her parents towards the end. They lived a long way away and I'd say it put a huge strain on their relationship. He took care of their house when his MIL went into care, helping to clear out tons of stuff, keep the garden tidy, decorate and fix things.
Now of course she is wanting to ring fence her inheritance, claiming its a non marital asset. This leaves him with half the equity in the family home and very little else. It'll all have to go to court in the end but the stress it's putting him under is considerable.
Personally, my view is that any inheritance that comes along while you are married belongs to you both. I am about to inherit a fair sum from my late father and if me and my wife split I'd expect her to take half of it.
You mentioned in your first post that you had 'emotionally checked out'. That's a feeling I remember extremely well - it's also, to some extent, the calm before the storm. The mountain ahead can look impossibly steep, but I can assure you that you'll emerge, eventually - and ultimately be happier.
Many of us have been through very similar scenarios and it's utterly exhausting. You need to keep focussed on the end-game which is getting out and being settled. Escaping a toxic environment is so liberating, even if there are casualties along the way. My ex wife is extremely manipulative and has turned family members against me - I haven't seen my daughter for 8 years, so she did it pretty well. But I am so much happier out!
Many of us have been through very similar scenarios and it's utterly exhausting. You need to keep focussed on the end-game which is getting out and being settled. Escaping a toxic environment is so liberating, even if there are casualties along the way. My ex wife is extremely manipulative and has turned family members against me - I haven't seen my daughter for 8 years, so she did it pretty well. But I am so much happier out!
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