Insurance advice regarding stolen car
Discussion
Hi all,
Just wanted to get some advice on what I should after my car was stolen a few weeks ago.
It was a black VW Tiguan 2019. Was stolen 3 weeks ago from my drive. It's a keyless entry and start/stop. I woke up in the morning opened the curtains and car was gone.
I went downstairs to see if they entered the house - no signs of entry etc. I found my key in the drawer of the table in the hallway (more on this later). I usually keep my key on top of the drawer. My wife keeps her VW keys inside the drawer so as not to confuse the keys as they look the same. The small table is next to my house door.
I phoned the police and told them my car got stolen. the police asked if I had both keys and I said I could only find the key that I used and that was in the hallway. I spent the next hour looking for the spare key - I couldn't find it. I phoned the insurance company immediately after and told them my car was stolen. They asked if I had both keys and I said I only have the key that I used and I can't find the other key and have never used the other key since I bought it in 2023. I will keep on looking. In the meantime they asked me to send the V5C and the key that I had.
They then sent me an email last week saying they want a specialist investigator to look into this as they have some concerns. I phoned the insurance company to ask what there concerns were.
The case manager was direct and he said the key that you gave us was last used in 2023 with a mileage of 33,000 which puts you in a difficult situation especially since you can't find the key that was last used for the car. He asked me where my keys are kept and I said usually in the hallway. He asked did you make sure you checked both your wife's VW keys to ensure they open her car - yes they do. He asked why did you say you had lost the spare key - and I said it was because I couldn't find the spare key (which is the key I probably had in my hand - but didn't know at the time).
He then said you can either you drop the claim or make a formal statement and we take it from there. If the investigation finds in our favour, especially given the key report and the fact you told is that was the main key, its probably likely we won't honour the claim. It's upto you what want to do but have time to think about what happened and see if you can find the other key.
I have had a think about it. I didn't find my car key in the normal place I would normally put the key, but I found it in the drawer underneath - at the time I thought nothing of it as it was in the same physical space. I had never used the spare key ever since I bought the car in 2023 (as now confirmed by the key analysis). I just assumed this was the key and made that statement that I can't find the key. I confirmed with my purchase invoice that 2 keys were provided and mentioned that to him again to confirm.
The only other thing I can think of is that I may have left my back door unlocked but closed [Edit: just checked with wife - she locked the back door and does every night]. In any case you would have to climb a 10ft security gate to get to the garden door. They could have come in (as we were asleep upstairs) but that is just something I have thought of having this new key information.
Perhaps I left the key in the car - but I clearly remember locking it. I may have dropped the key on the drive - but again my normal routine is to bring the key in - which I remember.
He went on to say that I could be blacklisted for making a false claim and that I could potentially be put on the fraud register.
This is where I am really anxious about as I can't prove anything and if I do change my story with this new key information then I can completely understand from an insurers point of view that I am trying to concoct a story to get out of the claim. I totally get it from theirPOV. My only issue here is that if there is a good chance I won't get compensated I don't want to spend the rest of my life ticking the box 'Have you ever had insurance denied etc' which will be far more costly in the long term than trying to achieve compensation of 17-18K. I am also in the medical profession in a prestigious position for which I am grateful - but I do not want it to affect the way I treat or operate on my patients when I am in essence being accused of fraud and then having to go through this whole lengthy process of investigation and the inevitable stress it comes with. I understand the view that if I am right and honest I should pursue it. But not everyone who is right gets justice if there is no evidence.
A few FOS decision have also not found the claimant in favour - although with a slightly different scenario but similar in the sense that he then suggested a thief may have took it. There are no signs of forced entry into their house either.
DRN4283336
DRN-5298818
sorry I can't post links directly but they are the two FOS findings
Any thoughts from anyone on this. Sorry to ramble but I really don't know what to do...
Just wanted to get some advice on what I should after my car was stolen a few weeks ago.
It was a black VW Tiguan 2019. Was stolen 3 weeks ago from my drive. It's a keyless entry and start/stop. I woke up in the morning opened the curtains and car was gone.
I went downstairs to see if they entered the house - no signs of entry etc. I found my key in the drawer of the table in the hallway (more on this later). I usually keep my key on top of the drawer. My wife keeps her VW keys inside the drawer so as not to confuse the keys as they look the same. The small table is next to my house door.
I phoned the police and told them my car got stolen. the police asked if I had both keys and I said I could only find the key that I used and that was in the hallway. I spent the next hour looking for the spare key - I couldn't find it. I phoned the insurance company immediately after and told them my car was stolen. They asked if I had both keys and I said I only have the key that I used and I can't find the other key and have never used the other key since I bought it in 2023. I will keep on looking. In the meantime they asked me to send the V5C and the key that I had.
They then sent me an email last week saying they want a specialist investigator to look into this as they have some concerns. I phoned the insurance company to ask what there concerns were.
The case manager was direct and he said the key that you gave us was last used in 2023 with a mileage of 33,000 which puts you in a difficult situation especially since you can't find the key that was last used for the car. He asked me where my keys are kept and I said usually in the hallway. He asked did you make sure you checked both your wife's VW keys to ensure they open her car - yes they do. He asked why did you say you had lost the spare key - and I said it was because I couldn't find the spare key (which is the key I probably had in my hand - but didn't know at the time).
He then said you can either you drop the claim or make a formal statement and we take it from there. If the investigation finds in our favour, especially given the key report and the fact you told is that was the main key, its probably likely we won't honour the claim. It's upto you what want to do but have time to think about what happened and see if you can find the other key.
I have had a think about it. I didn't find my car key in the normal place I would normally put the key, but I found it in the drawer underneath - at the time I thought nothing of it as it was in the same physical space. I had never used the spare key ever since I bought the car in 2023 (as now confirmed by the key analysis). I just assumed this was the key and made that statement that I can't find the key. I confirmed with my purchase invoice that 2 keys were provided and mentioned that to him again to confirm.
The only other thing I can think of is that I may have left my back door unlocked but closed [Edit: just checked with wife - she locked the back door and does every night]. In any case you would have to climb a 10ft security gate to get to the garden door. They could have come in (as we were asleep upstairs) but that is just something I have thought of having this new key information.
Perhaps I left the key in the car - but I clearly remember locking it. I may have dropped the key on the drive - but again my normal routine is to bring the key in - which I remember.
He went on to say that I could be blacklisted for making a false claim and that I could potentially be put on the fraud register.
This is where I am really anxious about as I can't prove anything and if I do change my story with this new key information then I can completely understand from an insurers point of view that I am trying to concoct a story to get out of the claim. I totally get it from theirPOV. My only issue here is that if there is a good chance I won't get compensated I don't want to spend the rest of my life ticking the box 'Have you ever had insurance denied etc' which will be far more costly in the long term than trying to achieve compensation of 17-18K. I am also in the medical profession in a prestigious position for which I am grateful - but I do not want it to affect the way I treat or operate on my patients when I am in essence being accused of fraud and then having to go through this whole lengthy process of investigation and the inevitable stress it comes with. I understand the view that if I am right and honest I should pursue it. But not everyone who is right gets justice if there is no evidence.
A few FOS decision have also not found the claimant in favour - although with a slightly different scenario but similar in the sense that he then suggested a thief may have took it. There are no signs of forced entry into their house either.
DRN4283336
DRN-5298818
sorry I can't post links directly but they are the two FOS findings
Any thoughts from anyone on this. Sorry to ramble but I really don't know what to do...
Edited by shushed on Tuesday 10th February 00:12
Edited by shushed on Tuesday 10th February 00:15
Edited by shushed on Tuesday 10th February 00:53
I'd just say you thought you found your usual key, and couldn't find the spare key, but in fact your usual key is gone (likely used to steal the car) and clearly you found and sent them the spare key, thinking it was the usual key. Honest mistake, both keys look the same.
But then reiterate you arent claiming for lost key, youre claiming for the stolen car, and point them again to the big empty space on your drive where a car should be.
But then reiterate you arent claiming for lost key, youre claiming for the stolen car, and point them again to the big empty space on your drive where a car should be.
I would have hoped that some sort of common sense should prevail. If a key hasn't been used for a couple of years then it surely has to be the spare. Keys look the same and on reflection you had obviously reached a hasty but more likely incorrect conclusion on the whereabouts of the key that was last used to legitimately drive the car.
Yep I agree. But it still doesn't account for how the main key is missing and I can't explain that. I think that is the issue on which they will not pay out on as there is no signs of forced entry into my house. the only logical conclusion is that I left the key in or around the car (but not in the property) according to the insurers - although they haven't said that explicitly.
Sounds like they're trying it on tbh. The number of door locks which can be bumped, leaving no evidence of forced entry but allowing a thief into the home is massive. I'd be replying factually and forecfully, escalating should the claim be denied because while you can't prove forced entry, they can't prove negligence either.
It's obviously a pity, and perhaps seen as a bit odd, that you couldn't tell the difference between the two keys - most people would have a bunch of keys with their everyday one, and the spare on its own, maybe even labelled.
However all you can do is be honest, and perhaps lean on your "medical profession in a prestigious position" role in a "why would I risk that for a few £K" kind of way.
Which insurer is it?
However all you can do is be honest, and perhaps lean on your "medical profession in a prestigious position" role in a "why would I risk that for a few £K" kind of way.
Which insurer is it?
Yeah I didnt label the spare key. And I have never used it or touched it since 2023 (when I bought the car)I have never had a reason to look for it or use it.
It’s with Admiral. They’ve appointed Brownsword to investigate but also said if I don’t give Brownsword a statement then they would assume I am no longer claiming.
I just have a reservation about the previous FOS tribunals who obviously can’t determine how the theft occurred but can only judge on whether the jnsurance company acted reasonably on the evidence they have - which I was the have.
It’s with Admiral. They’ve appointed Brownsword to investigate but also said if I don’t give Brownsword a statement then they would assume I am no longer claiming.
I just have a reservation about the previous FOS tribunals who obviously can’t determine how the theft occurred but can only judge on whether the jnsurance company acted reasonably on the evidence they have - which I was the have.
Sheepshanks said:
It's obviously a pity, and perhaps seen as a bit odd, that you couldn't tell the difference between the two keys - most people would have a bunch of keys with their everyday one, and the spare on its own, maybe even labelled.
Absolutely wouldn't be the case with mine.I keep car keys totally separate to house keys, always take my house keys and whichever car key.
Having checked, all but one of the main keys are as I got them, on a manufacturer specific keyring, identical to the spares which have been in the safe where they went approximately 2 hours after collecting the cars. I wouldn't have the slightest clue if I picked a spare up over the key I've been using for a while.
It does sound bizarre but the only logical thing is that someone took the main key and your spare was in the drawer.
I hope you get it sorted!
AB said:
Absolutely wouldn't be the case with mine.
I keep car keys totally separate to house keys, always take my house keys and whichever car key.
I'd say the multi-car PH household is relatively unusual, though having said that, we have a "spare" car - daughter's old SEAT Ateca which we kept hold of when she got an EV - and that does have a standalone key (it'll be same as the OP's, a VW Group kessy fob) which just lives on the hall table. The spare is open in a plastic bag in the key drawer, with a spare battery, as the battery goes flat if left in.I keep car keys totally separate to house keys, always take my house keys and whichever car key.
I am surprised the OPs Tiguan key can be interrogated as to when it was last used - I've never heard they had that capability before.
I was a bit suspicious as well. I had told them that I had only ever used one key since I bought the car in July 2023. I thought maybe they were trying to get me to confess by making it up given that I told them I haven’t used the spare key since 2023.
I later spoke to a VW dealership technician and he confirmed that the key does not hold any memory or data. It needs the car ECU and key to find out when it is last used.
However, It looks like the transponder chip in a Tiguan KESSY key is a Megamos ID88 chip which can hold mileage and last used data - that’s according to some advanced key interrogator kit - I think called Arbrties..
I later spoke to a VW dealership technician and he confirmed that the key does not hold any memory or data. It needs the car ECU and key to find out when it is last used.
However, It looks like the transponder chip in a Tiguan KESSY key is a Megamos ID88 chip which can hold mileage and last used data - that’s according to some advanced key interrogator kit - I think called Arbrties..
kiethton said:
Sounds like they're trying it on tbh. The number of door locks which can be bumped, leaving no evidence of forced entry but allowing a thief into the home is massive. I'd be replying factually and forecfully, escalating should the claim be denied because while you can't prove forced entry, they can't prove negligence either.
I agree. There just trying it on. They probably have a script for this situation. Deny, try and force you to cancel the claim. Try it on a 1000 people and 1% capitulate the. That’s 10 claims you’re not paying. I’m pretty certain that if this was to go before the ombudsman they would get told to wind there neck in and make the payment.
MB140 said:
I agree. There just trying it on. They probably have a script for this situation. Deny, try and force you to cancel the claim. Try it on a 1000 people and 1% capitulate the. That s 10 claims you re not paying.
The insurer involved in this case is exactly who I thought it would be…..Sheepshanks said:
The insurer involved in this case is exactly who I thought it would be ..
It's how they work these days, use a third party investigating, who is only interested in getting you to accept a no payout for the big fee they will charge the insurer. Went through it with my 9 month old Mk8 gti, that a 17 year old was driving with the keys.
Months of back and forth, intimidating tactics from the investigation.
In the end I said I wasn't there, the Police have the full story and arrested the driver, if you don't believe them then where are we going .
Stick to your guns and keep looking for that key.
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