Glut of Section 21 Evictions?
Discussion
With the Renters Rights Act coming into law on 1st May, I wonder if we are, or soon will be seeing a glut of Section 21 no-fault eviction notices being served.
Is this going to cause extended delays due to court backlogs?
If anyone is going, or has gone through this process recently, perhaps as a landlord, tenant, letting agent, etc. I'd be interested to read of your experience. Particularly in the Portsmouth area.
What is the typical timescale at present from the Section 21 being served, giving 2 months notice, to the bailiffs paying a visit?
Is this going to cause extended delays due to court backlogs?
If anyone is going, or has gone through this process recently, perhaps as a landlord, tenant, letting agent, etc. I'd be interested to read of your experience. Particularly in the Portsmouth area.
What is the typical timescale at present from the Section 21 being served, giving 2 months notice, to the bailiffs paying a visit?
I told my tenants two months ago that I was selling, and thankfully they found somewhere else and moved out yesterday. I did however call Landlord Action because I thought I would need to issue a section 21, but didn't need to in the end.
They were so busy that they didn't answer the phone and ended up calling me back later. One thing I will say, if you don't have all the relevant documentation then you are in big trouble. You need.
1)All gas safe certificates, the first being given to the tenants before they moved in.
2lDeposit registered with a deposit agency
3}EPC issued to the tenants before they moved.
4)How to rent guide issued to the tenants before they moved in, plus latest version issued to them before the section 21 is issued.
I will add my letting agent was completely useless when it came to getting me the required information to issue the section 21 and gave me a few sleepless nights.
If Amy of these are missing or not done the case will most likely be thrown out.
My ex wife works for a solicitor and she said they are inundated with calls from landlords asking for help evicting their tenants.
I just count my lucky stars my tenants were reasonable and just found another property rather than fight and make me go down the section 21 route.
I am so pleased it is nearly over for me, I am collecting the keys from the agent today and then have the fun of decorating and selling in what I believe is a very slow market. Oh and the several hundred pounds the agent owes me which I know will be a fight to get.
They were so busy that they didn't answer the phone and ended up calling me back later. One thing I will say, if you don't have all the relevant documentation then you are in big trouble. You need.
1)All gas safe certificates, the first being given to the tenants before they moved in.
2lDeposit registered with a deposit agency
3}EPC issued to the tenants before they moved.
4)How to rent guide issued to the tenants before they moved in, plus latest version issued to them before the section 21 is issued.
I will add my letting agent was completely useless when it came to getting me the required information to issue the section 21 and gave me a few sleepless nights.
If Amy of these are missing or not done the case will most likely be thrown out.
My ex wife works for a solicitor and she said they are inundated with calls from landlords asking for help evicting their tenants.
I just count my lucky stars my tenants were reasonable and just found another property rather than fight and make me go down the section 21 route.
I am so pleased it is nearly over for me, I am collecting the keys from the agent today and then have the fun of decorating and selling in what I believe is a very slow market. Oh and the several hundred pounds the agent owes me which I know will be a fight to get.
As a LA with a pretty substantial portfolio, we are seeing a few more S21's being requested by Clients but it's not massive. They can be served in their present form up to the end of April. You do need to make sure all of the relevant paperwork has been served as mentioned previously.
This may be just local (Bath/Bristol) of course but it's not going to be the disaster that the media would have you believe.
This may be just local (Bath/Bristol) of course but it's not going to be the disaster that the media would have you believe.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
One thing I will say, if you don't have all the relevant documentation then you are in big trouble. You need.
1)All gas safe certificates, the first being given to the tenants before they moved in.
2lDeposit registered with a deposit agency
3}EPC issued to the tenants before they moved.
4)How to rent guide issued to the tenants before they moved in, plus latest version issued to them before the section 21 is issued.
If Amy of these are missing or not done the case will most likely be thrown out.
Interesting to read this as I co-own a place with my sister that we're thinking of selling. Tenant's been in there 16 years.1)All gas safe certificates, the first being given to the tenants before they moved in.
2lDeposit registered with a deposit agency
3}EPC issued to the tenants before they moved.
4)How to rent guide issued to the tenants before they moved in, plus latest version issued to them before the section 21 is issued.
If Amy of these are missing or not done the case will most likely be thrown out.
Going through the paperwork my sister has (she's local to the property, I'm not, so she's always dealt with the tenant), there's:
1) No deposit ever taken
2) No EPC ever obtained
3) No mention of any "How to Rent" literature.
Gas & electric safety checks have been done though.
Although, having had a quick look at the Govt website about issuing a Section 21 before the new rules come in, there's no mention of the paperwork you listed being required - do you have a link to anything that makes it clearer please?
I looked here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/renting-out-your-prope...
Have arranged to visit the tenant together in a week or so's time to say we want to sell - will see how that goes!
It does seem to be an issue.
Of my workforce of 41 people 3 have S21 Evictions pending, ranging from a single lady who was abused by her previous partner through to a single mother with a young child, and another single lady whose partner passed away this year.
Interesting that the ones I am aware of are all vulnerable people - I wonder if there is a link.
Of my workforce of 41 people 3 have S21 Evictions pending, ranging from a single lady who was abused by her previous partner through to a single mother with a young child, and another single lady whose partner passed away this year.
Interesting that the ones I am aware of are all vulnerable people - I wonder if there is a link.
Steve_W said:
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
One thing I will say, if you don't have all the relevant documentation then you are in big trouble. You need.
1)All gas safe certificates, the first being given to the tenants before they moved in.
2lDeposit registered with a deposit agency
3}EPC issued to the tenants before they moved.
4)How to rent guide issued to the tenants before they moved in, plus latest version issued to them before the section 21 is issued.
If Amy of these are missing or not done the case will most likely be thrown out.
Interesting to read this as I co-own a place with my sister that we're thinking of selling. Tenant's been in there 16 years.1)All gas safe certificates, the first being given to the tenants before they moved in.
2lDeposit registered with a deposit agency
3}EPC issued to the tenants before they moved.
4)How to rent guide issued to the tenants before they moved in, plus latest version issued to them before the section 21 is issued.
If Amy of these are missing or not done the case will most likely be thrown out.
Going through the paperwork my sister has (she's local to the property, I'm not, so she's always dealt with the tenant), there's:
1) No deposit ever taken
2) No EPC ever obtained
3) No mention of any "How to Rent" literature.
Gas & electric safety checks have been done though.
Although, having had a quick look at the Govt website about issuing a Section 21 before the new rules come in, there's no mention of the paperwork you listed being required - do you have a link to anything that makes it clearer please?
I looked here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/renting-out-your-prope...
Have arranged to visit the tenant together in a week or so's time to say we want to sell - will see how that goes!
How to Rent literature was after your tenancy started so you don't need to have served it. Personally every few years send them a complete pack of all documents they should have (EPC/EICR/Gas Cert/Deposit/How to Rent etc)
EPC requirement was 2008 so you should have provided that.
My tenants moved out a week ago after eight years, according to the agent the property was left "in excellent condition". Before they moved in the entire house was fully decorated and brand new carpets fitted. I live an hour away so saw it for the first time in eight years at the weekend.
1)The whole place smells like a charity shop/jumble sale.
2)I think they had a dog that I was never told about.
3)The carpets are basically wrecked, threadbare in the hallway and full of stains everywhere
4)Mould on the window reveals
5)They have painted the front room at some point, a slightly different colour, badly. There is paint all over the skirting boards and plug sockets.
6)In one of the bedrooms they have painted triangles of colour on the wall using masking tape to seperate them. You can feel the raised edges so I will have to sand this all off before I repaint.
7)There are over 50 holes in the wall that they have squirted a bit of decorators caulk into. I now have to dig all this out and refill properly.
8)Every single square foot of wall has some mark or other on it.
9)The gutters are completely blocked so when it rains (as it does a lot recently) the water cascades over the edge. I suspect this is why there is mould on the windows below them.
10)The kitchen is more filthy than I could ever imagine. The extractor fan is thick with grease and has never been cleaned or had the filter changed. There was filth, pasta, shredies, kids toys and photos down the side of the fridge. When I pulled the fridge out, the smell made me gag. Using some hot water and flash, just cleaning the outside of the fridge the water was so dirty I had to change it. Even the boiler and washing machine had a layer of grime, how does this even happen. The cupboards above the oven, the grease on top is so thick my fingers stuck to it. Two of us spent 4 hours cleaning on Sunday, we haven't made a dent.
11)The block paved driveway is covered in weeds, some are clearly years old.
12)Big dent in my garage door where they have reveresed into it.
They also didn't pay the last 9 days rent.
The house is getting cleaned, decorated and then sold. No way would I want to be a landlord again, especially with the tax now and the new Renters Rights Act.
It just amazes me that people can live like this.
1)The whole place smells like a charity shop/jumble sale.
2)I think they had a dog that I was never told about.
3)The carpets are basically wrecked, threadbare in the hallway and full of stains everywhere
4)Mould on the window reveals
5)They have painted the front room at some point, a slightly different colour, badly. There is paint all over the skirting boards and plug sockets.
6)In one of the bedrooms they have painted triangles of colour on the wall using masking tape to seperate them. You can feel the raised edges so I will have to sand this all off before I repaint.
7)There are over 50 holes in the wall that they have squirted a bit of decorators caulk into. I now have to dig all this out and refill properly.
8)Every single square foot of wall has some mark or other on it.
9)The gutters are completely blocked so when it rains (as it does a lot recently) the water cascades over the edge. I suspect this is why there is mould on the windows below them.
10)The kitchen is more filthy than I could ever imagine. The extractor fan is thick with grease and has never been cleaned or had the filter changed. There was filth, pasta, shredies, kids toys and photos down the side of the fridge. When I pulled the fridge out, the smell made me gag. Using some hot water and flash, just cleaning the outside of the fridge the water was so dirty I had to change it. Even the boiler and washing machine had a layer of grime, how does this even happen. The cupboards above the oven, the grease on top is so thick my fingers stuck to it. Two of us spent 4 hours cleaning on Sunday, we haven't made a dent.
11)The block paved driveway is covered in weeds, some are clearly years old.
12)Big dent in my garage door where they have reveresed into it.
They also didn't pay the last 9 days rent.
The house is getting cleaned, decorated and then sold. No way would I want to be a landlord again, especially with the tax now and the new Renters Rights Act.
It just amazes me that people can live like this.
blueg33 said:
It does seem to be an issue.
Of my workforce of 41 people 3 have S21 Evictions pending, ranging from a single lady who was abused by her previous partner through to a single mother with a young child, and another single lady whose partner passed away this year.
Interesting that the ones I am aware of are all vulnerable people - I wonder if there is a link.
Actual evictions pending, or just S21s served?Of my workforce of 41 people 3 have S21 Evictions pending, ranging from a single lady who was abused by her previous partner through to a single mother with a young child, and another single lady whose partner passed away this year.
Interesting that the ones I am aware of are all vulnerable people - I wonder if there is a link.
It’s not uncommon for landlords to serve S21s alongside other notices (e.b. S8) so it could be that you’re only getting part of the story. Indeed, in some cases landlords might serve them in preference to other notices.
Another issue is the shortage of other accommodation. Some LAs will tell tenants who have been asked to leave that they are making themselves voluntarily homeless if they leave and effectively tell them that they need to go all the way to being evicted before they will be considered for alternative accommodation.
There is potentially a situation where more people might be served a higher % of s21s in order to stimulate action: some tenants will deliberately sit on their hands until the 11th hour, others might need help to find alternatives, but that takes us back the the previous paragraph…
Chumley.mouse said:
Full gutters, marks on the walls and a dent in the garage door ..how could anyone live like that . 
I meant more the fact that the place is so filthy it stinks and the kitchen is covered in a think film of grime. I sprayed the inside of the extractor fan with elbow grease and it rained liquid grease all over the cooker hob. Who doesn't change the filter in 8 years?Also the cooker hob was new five years ago and is also ruined, mine is the same age and looks brand new without a scratch.
Every ceiling rose was thick with grime, they have clearly never been wiped over in eight years.
My house has not been painted in six years, the walls are not covered in marks and grime.
Maybe that is just how people live and I am clean freak?
Chumley.mouse said:
Full gutters, marks on the walls and a dent in the garage door ..how could anyone live like that .
And worn out carpets after 8 years That whole list is nothing surprising and should be expected of a house after a tenant has been there a while. People don’t all have the immaculate standards that PH powerfully built directors have living in their sterile show homes. Every time one of my tenants leaves, I expect a deep clean to be the minimum required. Carpets have a shelf life of 5 years max, that’s why it’s budget range carpets that get fitted. Ovens are often scrap, ditto on the budget range that gets fitted, kitchens / bathrooms are hopefully just in need of a thorough clean, but any fittings needing replacement get a Screwfix / B&Q end of line / heavily discounted replacement fitted. Walls get a good sugar soaping, holes and damage patched up and repainting in basic colours, depending on what’s seen as the trendiest base colour. Gardens often need the most work too. List everything, photograph everything, bill for everything. It will always exceed the deposit, but expect to be awarded 80% of the deposit at best, unless it’s really bad.
It’s all priced into the rent.
The flip side is when the houses are left in a decent condition it’s a nice surprise and even nicer to be not have a dispute over the return of the deposit. By decent condition, I mean lived in, but still needing a couple of days remedial work to bring them back to an acceptable standard for a new tenant to move in.
98elise said:
If you've not taken a deposit then thats not an issue.
How to Rent literature was after your tenancy started so you don't need to have served it. Personally every few years send them a complete pack of all documents they should have (EPC/EICR/Gas Cert/Deposit/How to Rent etc)
EPC requirement was 2008 so you should have provided that.
Thanks for that - just spoke to my sister and checked the EPC website. Definitely never had one done.How to Rent literature was after your tenancy started so you don't need to have served it. Personally every few years send them a complete pack of all documents they should have (EPC/EICR/Gas Cert/Deposit/How to Rent etc)
EPC requirement was 2008 so you should have provided that.
So, guess I'd best get one done - will need it for selling anyway.
No idea how that affects asking them to leave - just because we never gave the tenants an EPC can't mean they have indefinite leave to stay there, surely?
I see lawyers in my near future!
Steve_W said:
Thanks for that - just spoke to my sister and checked the EPC website. Definitely never had one done.
So, guess I'd best get one done - will need it for selling anyway.
No idea how that affects asking them to leave - just because we never gave the tenants an EPC can't mean they have indefinite leave to stay there, surely?
I see lawyers in my near future!
As above there s lots you should have done as best practice by issuing new documents every couple of years. However, that s not a lot of use to advise that given you re now looking to evict and sell up. You need to get an EPC completed and a copy given to the tenant before you can issue the Section 21. That will make any subsequent S21 you issue valid, assuming all the other paperwork is in order. The tenant doesn t get indefinite leave to stay, but you don t get to enforce a contract that you ve breached, until you rectify the breach. So, guess I'd best get one done - will need it for selling anyway.
No idea how that affects asking them to leave - just because we never gave the tenants an EPC can't mean they have indefinite leave to stay there, surely?
I see lawyers in my near future!
I d suggest getting a specialist eviction solicitor to do the eviction work for you for safety, as these can be tricky to navigate. I had one a few years back where a court ruled against me using old law and it took another four weeks to get the court to accept their mistake and reverse the decision. Having a solicitor to deal with this was a god-send, as I d have had no clue that the court was wrong in their ruling. With the upcoming legal changes, you don t want any delays dragging you beyond the deadline dates and having to start all over again under a set of new rules.
As an aside, you re still on the hook for a fine from Trading Standards for failing to provide the EPC if they choose to pursue you, although that s unlikely.
EDITED to add that I’d also cancel your meeting to tell them you’re going to sell up. Get your paperwork in order, consult a solicitor and take their advice first. You will still be able to serve notice to sell the house post-May and it’s possible that the process may be easier for you, as courts may be compelled to rule in your favour when there is a valid reason for eviction with no wriggle room.
Edited by Opapayer on Monday 16th February 17:58
LooneyTunes said:
Actual evictions pending, or just S21s served?
It s not uncommon for landlords to serve S21s alongside other notices (e.b. S8) so it could be that you re only getting part of the story. Indeed, in some cases landlords might serve them in preference to other notices.
Another issue is the shortage of other accommodation. Some LAs will tell tenants who have been asked to leave that they are making themselves voluntarily homeless if they leave and effectively tell them that they need to go all the way to being evicted before they will be considered for alternative accommodation.
There is potentially a situation where more people might be served a higher % of s21s in order to stimulate action: some tenants will deliberately sit on their hands until the 11th hour, others might need help to find alternatives, but that takes us back the the previous paragraph
All three are notices served, move out deadline passed so evictions due soon?It s not uncommon for landlords to serve S21s alongside other notices (e.b. S8) so it could be that you re only getting part of the story. Indeed, in some cases landlords might serve them in preference to other notices.
Another issue is the shortage of other accommodation. Some LAs will tell tenants who have been asked to leave that they are making themselves voluntarily homeless if they leave and effectively tell them that they need to go all the way to being evicted before they will be considered for alternative accommodation.
There is potentially a situation where more people might be served a higher % of s21s in order to stimulate action: some tenants will deliberately sit on their hands until the 11th hour, others might need help to find alternatives, but that takes us back the the previous paragraph
blueg33 said:
All three are notices served, move out deadline passed so evictions due soon?
The legal process via the courts starts once the notice period has expired and the tenant hasn’t moved out (aka deadline has passed in your terminology). It’s a piece of string how long that takes to conclude. Opapayer said:
That whole list is nothing surprising and should be expected of a house after a tenant has been there a while.
You wonder if it would be different if they owned the house themselves. Maybe not.My first/last tenant managed to clock up a £4K repair bill in just two years. And two months unpaid rent. Just a parasite.
blueg33 said:
All three are notices served, move out deadline passed so evictions due soon?
Landlords also have quite a long time in which they can commence court proceedings following non-compliance with a notice.When they do, it can still take months to go through the court, especially if you have a tenant who knows how to play the game.
Simpo Two said:
You wonder if it would be different if they owned the house themselves. Maybe not.
My first/last tenant managed to clock up a £4K repair bill in just two years. And two months unpaid rent. Just a parasite.
Probably no different. Some people are just dirty, they probably don’t realise and think they’re clean and having a similar thought process about others that they class as dirty! My first/last tenant managed to clock up a £4K repair bill in just two years. And two months unpaid rent. Just a parasite.
That last tenant is a poor tenant. Sadly, we’ve all got an example of that type of tenant. Thorough referencing and credit checks does mitigate it to some extent, but you can never eradicate the risk. I used to factor in an uplift of 5-7% on the rent and set aside c10% of the annual rent to cover remedial work from every tenant post tenancy. It’s not going to be quite as easy now with the market rate cap on rents, although asking rental prices have jumped significantly again locally recently.
Opapayer said:
blueg33 said:
All three are notices served, move out deadline passed so evictions due soon?
The legal process via the courts starts once the notice period has expired and the tenant hasn t moved out (aka deadline has passed in your terminology). It s a piece of string how long that takes to conclude. Council are currently failing to find her and her child accommodation.
If she goes to a friend even for one night she loses the right to have the council house her.
blueg33 said:
One of them has been told by the council to expect to have to move out with virtually no further notice, to pack emergency bags and put her stuff in storage.
Council are currently failing to find her and her child accommodation.
If she goes to a friend even for one night she loses the right to have the council house her.
Sadly not atypical, and a situation that will get more common as private rental stock reduces.Council are currently failing to find her and her child accommodation.
If she goes to a friend even for one night she loses the right to have the council house her.
The notion that someone can just pack their life up and put it in storage is rather nonsensical. I doubt there are many landlords who would want to see a tenant in such limbo, waiting for the council to finally get its act together (which it probably won’t before the bailiffs turn up, and even then it’ll be temporary accommodation for a while) but ultimately a landlord who has followed the correct process should still be able to regain possession.
There just isn’t the capacity in the council system to deal with routine need, let alone those exiting the private rental sector (and I’ve seen a lot more ex-rental stuff come on the market in the past few weeks).
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