How to avoid a lemon
Discussion
I've just rejected a motorcycle that I would not have back as a gift, because it broke constantly.
Back in the days of previous keepers being on V5s and the Phone Book, I occasionally used to call a previous owner and check what the score was with a vehicle. No one ever minded, everyone was happy to share their experience good or bad. I swerved a couple of wrong-uns, bought others that were better than they appeared.
In the market again, and looking at recent low-mileage bikes. I cannot do that ^^^ anymore. Outside of asking a dealer why they have an almost new low miles vehicle, and hoping they don't have their fingers crossed, what can be done?
Tricky.
Search reg numbers, search car/bike clubs/Facebook groups/owners groups. If it's a run of the mill car/bike they may not have joined any group/club though.
If you go to view it and see any invoices then remember any garage names so you can phone them up - owner may have taken it there recently if they were experiencing any problems.
Search reg numbers, search car/bike clubs/Facebook groups/owners groups. If it's a run of the mill car/bike they may not have joined any group/club though.
If you go to view it and see any invoices then remember any garage names so you can phone them up - owner may have taken it there recently if they were experiencing any problems.
SimonTheSailor said:
Tricky.
Search reg numbers, search car/bike clubs/Facebook groups/owners groups. If it's a run of the mill car/bike they may not have joined any group/club though.
If you go to view it and see any invoices then remember any garage names so you can phone them up - owner may have taken it there recently if they were experiencing any problems.
The bike I rejected was niche and I was a member of a FB group. Ironically people loved my bike and I got hundreds of likes for a photo of it. I didn't breathe a word there about the issues, because I didn't want to cause trouble for the marque or the dealer. Also it can play against you, if a situation ends up in court.Search reg numbers, search car/bike clubs/Facebook groups/owners groups. If it's a run of the mill car/bike they may not have joined any group/club though.
If you go to view it and see any invoices then remember any garage names so you can phone them up - owner may have taken it there recently if they were experiencing any problems.
It's back for sale now and I feel genuinely sorry for the next buyer.
Furbo said:
In the market again, and looking at recent low-mileage bikes. I cannot do that ^^^ anymore. Outside of asking a dealer why they have an almost new low miles vehicle, and hoping they don't have their fingers crossed, what can be done?
If it’s ‘almost new’ it should have a manufacturer guarantee.I part exchanged a car to a main dealer . I supplied a few invoices for work carried out as part of the service history, In some cases it had my name and address.
The car appeared on Auto trader about 5 weeks later for sale with 20k less miles on than when I sold it . I sent an e mail to the seller,now an independent garage, asking some questions about the car .
They sussed it was me and from the documents they had rang me on my mobile and had a discussion with me . They then changed the advert to reflect the actual mileage, not the price incidentally.
A month after this I got a call from a nice fellow near Shrewsbury who asked politely if I could confirm the service history of the car he had just bought. He had all the paperwork.
I always keep a file of paperwork with my vehicles. I may do my own redaction in the future.
The car appeared on Auto trader about 5 weeks later for sale with 20k less miles on than when I sold it . I sent an e mail to the seller,now an independent garage, asking some questions about the car .
They sussed it was me and from the documents they had rang me on my mobile and had a discussion with me . They then changed the advert to reflect the actual mileage, not the price incidentally.
A month after this I got a call from a nice fellow near Shrewsbury who asked politely if I could confirm the service history of the car he had just bought. He had all the paperwork.
I always keep a file of paperwork with my vehicles. I may do my own redaction in the future.
bad company said:
Furbo said:
In the market again, and looking at recent low-mileage bikes. I cannot do that ^^^ anymore. Outside of asking a dealer why they have an almost new low miles vehicle, and hoping they don't have their fingers crossed, what can be done?
If it s almost new it should have a manufacturer guarantee.Furbo said:
Back in the days of previous keepers being on V5s and the Phone Book, I occasionally used to call a previous owner and check what the score was with a vehicle. No one ever minded, everyone was happy to share their experience good or bad.
That's somewhat a false premise, one reason why not easily contactable now is because many people DID mind.I think, maybe, when buying a car and submitting/filling the V5 (and also updatable if need be), you can set a flag on it to say "happy rot be contacted by future buyers" (and if so, a means so buyers can get contact details).....
Dracoro said:
Furbo said:
Back in the days of previous keepers being on V5s and the Phone Book, I occasionally used to call a previous owner and check what the score was with a vehicle. No one ever minded, everyone was happy to share their experience good or bad.
That's somewhat a false premise, one reason why not easily contactable now is because many people DID mind.I think, maybe, when buying a car and submitting/filling the V5 (and also updatable if need be), you can set a flag on it to say "happy rot be contacted by future buyers" (and if so, a means so buyers can get contact details).....
I did it again about four years ago when I bought a premium vehicle, in which the first owner had left his phone number (phone book). He sounded absolutely delighted to tell me about his ownership history and also told me about some hidden electronics it had. Again, he wanted to know all about its current state.
I think the deletion of ownership history has more to do with general paranoia around data and dealers preferring that you don't know about vehicle history.
Furbo said:
Trust me when I tell you that no one I called ever gave the slightest indication that they minded.
I think the deletion of ownership history has more to do with general paranoia around data and dealers preferring that you don't know about vehicle history.
I'm not questioning your experience, just stating that some people do mind.I think the deletion of ownership history has more to do with general paranoia around data and dealers preferring that you don't know about vehicle history.
I'd be happy if buyer called me about previous car (as long as asked/done right).
I think the deletion is two things.
1. Dealer can't be bothered (sometimes understandably if they have high turnover of cars) to go through all the files and redact the name/addresses.
2. Hide an issue or anything "negative" in service history.
With many/most manufacturers now having online SH, I think (possibly using dvla/gov site) they should be able to log the SH there (maybe mandatory to do so). Owners should also be able to upload documents/photos of S/H too.
Whether many would actually do that, is another question.... cost/benefit etc.
The "missing" history (for reason 1 above) for the more "desirable" cars, I think should devalue the price, but then what defines "all history", some cars have been trouble-free so so wad of invoices, and some have loads of invoices for all sorts of things. Up to customer what value is.
So buying a young mainstream car, would not bother me. Buying a 10/20+ year classic sports/supercar, I would expect a lot else walking away.... Vote with your feet as they say.
One idea I had is that ALL cars (used) should declare a grading that the dealer must publish (when advertising and when someone buying).
3 - Fit for purpose (i.e. as we have now, so may or may not be covered by consumer rights/sold warranty/dealer discretion etc..)
2 - Car checked over - therefore all items checked are guaranteed (at least for a time period). What is checked must be declared/listed.
1 - Top condition - we guarantee pretty much everything (almost like new car warranty).
Now, that can tie in with a "warranty" they may sell but that just an insurance policy as to who pays.
So, you buy a "2" graded car and declared part fails goes, the dealer is legally liable (even if the warranty rejects it).
Granted most dealers will just sell/declare as "3", however if a dealer only sells "premium quality goods", then consumers will expect 2/1 grades and the obligations must be met.
Should help prevent dealers passing off cars as "excellent/premium condition etc." that are anything but.
3 - Fit for purpose (i.e. as we have now, so may or may not be covered by consumer rights/sold warranty/dealer discretion etc..)
2 - Car checked over - therefore all items checked are guaranteed (at least for a time period). What is checked must be declared/listed.
1 - Top condition - we guarantee pretty much everything (almost like new car warranty).
Now, that can tie in with a "warranty" they may sell but that just an insurance policy as to who pays.
So, you buy a "2" graded car and declared part fails goes, the dealer is legally liable (even if the warranty rejects it).
Granted most dealers will just sell/declare as "3", however if a dealer only sells "premium quality goods", then consumers will expect 2/1 grades and the obligations must be met.
Should help prevent dealers passing off cars as "excellent/premium condition etc." that are anything but.
bad company said:
If it s almost new it should have a manufacturer guarantee.
Tell that to Bmw.I bought a "used approved" bike done 540 miles.
A vibration reported to them within the first week.
They attepted a repair which didn't sort it.
Then I got the "it performs as expected" and they pulled the shutters down.
They wouldn't budge, got onto the dealer, BMWFS, head office, Facebook page.
Long story short, I got the fault diagnosed myself, and got my full refund agreed within 23 minutes of the complaint going to the FCA.
It took 7 months to get the refund, all whilst the bike was unsafe to use, sat in my garage.
Trevor555 said:
bad company said:
If it s almost new it should have a manufacturer guarantee.
Tell that to Bmw.I bought a "used approved" bike done 540 miles.
A vibration reported to them within the first week.
They attepted a repair which didn't sort it.
Then I got the "it performs as expected" and they pulled the shutters down.
They wouldn't budge, got onto the dealer, BMWFS, head office, Facebook page.
Long story short, I got the fault diagnosed myself, and got my full refund agreed within 23 minutes of the complaint going to the FCA.
It took 7 months to get the refund, all whilst the bike was unsafe to use, sat in my garage.
The main dealer who, in all seriousness told buyers of their bikes in Central Scotland not to use them in the rain and that calipers sticking and rusting were ‘part of owning a bike’
Absolute f
king bellends.the cueball said:
Trevor555 said:
bad company said:
If it s almost new it should have a manufacturer guarantee.
Tell that to Bmw.I bought a "used approved" bike done 540 miles.
A vibration reported to them within the first week.
They attepted a repair which didn't sort it.
Then I got the "it performs as expected" and they pulled the shutters down.
They wouldn't budge, got onto the dealer, BMWFS, head office, Facebook page.
Long story short, I got the fault diagnosed myself, and got my full refund agreed within 23 minutes of the complaint going to the FCA.
It took 7 months to get the refund, all whilst the bike was unsafe to use, sat in my garage.
The main dealer who, in all seriousness told buyers of their bikes in Central Scotland not to use them in the rain and that calipers sticking and rusting were part of owning a bike
Absolute f
king bellends.The dealer and importer teamed up with their own interpretation of the Consumer Rights Act and all of a sudden the parts they had needed to change had been changed under goodwill "as a precaution". Not because they were throwing up engine lights, error messages and ECU fault codes.
To be fair, I have had the same with multiple car manufacturers in the past, when their product has been a bit s
t. Some of the bullst has been Blackadder stuff. The only one who didn't engage in antics was Toyota, who were professional throughout. The rejected Hilux was, however, retailed again within weeks, via the supplying dealer, and I bet they didn't disclose its history.Dracoro said:
One idea I had is that ALL cars (used) should declare a grading that the dealer must publish (when advertising and when someone buying).
3 - Fit for purpose (i.e. as we have now, so may or may not be covered by consumer rights/sold warranty/dealer discretion etc..)
2 - Car checked over - therefore all items checked are guaranteed (at least for a time period). What is checked must be declared/listed.
1 - Top condition - we guarantee pretty much everything (almost like new car warranty).
Now, that can tie in with a "warranty" they may sell but that just an insurance policy as to who pays.
So, you buy a "2" graded car and declared part fails goes, the dealer is legally liable (even if the warranty rejects it).
Granted most dealers will just sell/declare as "3", however if a dealer only sells "premium quality goods", then consumers will expect 2/1 grades and the obligations must be met.
Should help prevent dealers passing off cars as "excellent/premium condition etc." that are anything but.
The greater the consumers rights law, the higher the price of secondhand cars. Some people will be forced out of car ownership or have to contend with "below the line" private sales and dodgy traders.3 - Fit for purpose (i.e. as we have now, so may or may not be covered by consumer rights/sold warranty/dealer discretion etc..)
2 - Car checked over - therefore all items checked are guaranteed (at least for a time period). What is checked must be declared/listed.
1 - Top condition - we guarantee pretty much everything (almost like new car warranty).
Now, that can tie in with a "warranty" they may sell but that just an insurance policy as to who pays.
So, you buy a "2" graded car and declared part fails goes, the dealer is legally liable (even if the warranty rejects it).
Granted most dealers will just sell/declare as "3", however if a dealer only sells "premium quality goods", then consumers will expect 2/1 grades and the obligations must be met.
Should help prevent dealers passing off cars as "excellent/premium condition etc." that are anything but.
paul_c123 said:
Dracoro said:
One idea I had is that ALL cars (used) should declare a grading that the dealer must publish (when advertising and when someone buying).
3 - Fit for purpose (i.e. as we have now, so may or may not be covered by consumer rights/sold warranty/dealer discretion etc..)
2 - Car checked over - therefore all items checked are guaranteed (at least for a time period). What is checked must be declared/listed.
1 - Top condition - we guarantee pretty much everything (almost like new car warranty).
Now, that can tie in with a "warranty" they may sell but that just an insurance policy as to who pays.
So, you buy a "2" graded car and declared part fails goes, the dealer is legally liable (even if the warranty rejects it).
Granted most dealers will just sell/declare as "3", however if a dealer only sells "premium quality goods", then consumers will expect 2/1 grades and the obligations must be met.
Should help prevent dealers passing off cars as "excellent/premium condition etc." that are anything but.
The greater the consumers rights law, the higher the price of secondhand cars. Some people will be forced out of car ownership or have to contend with "below the line" private sales and dodgy traders.3 - Fit for purpose (i.e. as we have now, so may or may not be covered by consumer rights/sold warranty/dealer discretion etc..)
2 - Car checked over - therefore all items checked are guaranteed (at least for a time period). What is checked must be declared/listed.
1 - Top condition - we guarantee pretty much everything (almost like new car warranty).
Now, that can tie in with a "warranty" they may sell but that just an insurance policy as to who pays.
So, you buy a "2" graded car and declared part fails goes, the dealer is legally liable (even if the warranty rejects it).
Granted most dealers will just sell/declare as "3", however if a dealer only sells "premium quality goods", then consumers will expect 2/1 grades and the obligations must be met.
Should help prevent dealers passing off cars as "excellent/premium condition etc." that are anything but.
If they want to sell “grade 2 or 1” then higher protection for the consumer.
Dracoro said:
I am not suggesting expanding the consumer rights law, just that you can only advertise/sell these as grade 3 .
If they want to sell grade 2 or 1 then higher protection for the consumer.
In a way, it's already there.If they want to sell grade 2 or 1 then higher protection for the consumer.
Main dealers selling their "used approved"
These cars should be of the very highest quality, checked, history checked etc...
According to all the blurb on their websites going on about their 115 point checks, and the quality required for these cars to meet their exacting standards.
In reality, I've seen loads of these that were well below what I'd have expected.
Dealers can't be trusted to grade their own stock.
Certainly not main dealers, they've had some of the worst examples I've seen, trying to pass them off as "used approved"
That s what I am getting at, if they want to sell as grade 2 or 1, the legal requirements should that much higher than the CRA.
So consumer can ask this used approve car, are you selling as grade 3 or 2? and dealer has to state which.
As it is now, they can advertise as if “grade 1/2” but their legal obligations are just that of grade 3 cars.
So consumer can ask this used approve car, are you selling as grade 3 or 2? and dealer has to state which.
As it is now, they can advertise as if “grade 1/2” but their legal obligations are just that of grade 3 cars.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff